New assault rifles to replace INSAS, says Antony

[Alphacharlie]

Deleted...

 

[Alphacharlie]

Shoddy work by OFB. Though I can't blame the Army, they could have squeezed the manufacturer to improve the weapon.[/QUOTE]

Disagreed.

INSAS doesnt Over Heat Nor does the Gun Clog when in continuos use.The LMG Version with 5.56MM Round is not as effective as Bern. As a CI weap it Fails rather suitable for Trench warfare. While Army needs All rounder weapon.

The Fundamental Fault rests with Army, as we did not give Future Dev Requirments to DRDO but when the LMG VERSION was being developed in 95-2000 period the developments in Balistic warfare were not paid much Heed, by adding a UBGL I can make a difference but not a Game changer. There is No Picadel-rail on INSAS which is Basic Fundamental requirmet of all Guns since 2000. Yet again Navy took a lead and they are not going to replace it soon.

Its quite logical. An infantry weapon brought into service in the 90s should have had a life of at least 30-40 years in service. INSAS certainly will not. Bringing into service an individual weapon in the 90s and then having to replace it in 15-20 years is certainly not cost effective any which way one looks at it, but that is not even the main point. The two issues you bring up would be the basic, fundamental requirements (specially if the rifle was still being worked on in the 90s when the capabilities you talk about were available in systems like Steyr and others) that would need to go into any development program for an individual weapon specially one that is planned for force-wide induction. The fallback plan has been to induct an even older design (AK-47s) for use with units involved in operations in built up areas etc. To any observer, the problems seems to be that the weapon system did not meet the requirements of the service and thus is facing replacement.

I disagree with your views again, there is no Hard and fast rule a weapsystem will be in use for 3 Decades Like M16 it has been in use since 1960s but the versions are so many that each is a new weapon from Para version to CQB one.

INSAS was designed to replace 7.62 SLR which weighed 5.2 Kg Indian Version with all accessories. When Insas was designed we wanted a Gun with 3TF or 3 ROUND Fire on each Triger flick in semi auto version with ability to seriously inflict damage rather than killing the victim. Also, we wanted a Gun with ability to be rugged as AK47. However, when INSAS came it was good as it was much lighter we could carry a 30 round magazine.

However the fundamental issues like Pica-delli rail /Scope/Red eye /UBGL were not conceived then as it was not much important and techonoligally costly. With NATION getting more richer Infantry wanted ever mordern equipment.

As listed in my other point Army failed to give instructions to DRDO on time to develop and the pace of development in Ballistic Technology which our DRDO didnt bother to keep in pace with.

INSAS is a Good system ask any Infantary Officer, we still swear by it.

 

[Koovie]

What the F!!!.

We can make ICBM but not a good quality Assault Rifle ?

Its Hard to digest.

what happen to Trichy Assault Rifle ?

It was meant for paramilitary forces.

A US marine I know, fired Insas in exercises with Indian army.He said it was the worst weapon he has fired till date.

INSAS is failed. It was only accepted because we did not have the money nor the access to the best of the best!

Even the US imports AR like the SCAR, the HK etc....

 

[rockstarIN]

I do not believe INSAS is a failure.

We wanted to replace heavy SLRs with 5.56 which suits our doctrine, we went for INSAS.

Now or the near future doctrine asks for one weapon with 5.56 + AK round lighter weapon, we are going for it.

Whats the problem, why should we reinvent the wheel if good things are available in the market with affordable price?

 

[Imran Khan]

insas was drop oil while fire damn WTF how can solders use such weapon? better to move on and got some good .

INSAS rifles spurted oil into eyes when fired: Raju | StratPost

 

[Koovie]

I do not believe INSAS is a failure.

We wanted to replace heavy SLRs with 5.56 which suits our doctrine, we went for INSAS.

Now or the near future doctrine asks for one weapon with 5.56 + AK round lighter weapon, we are going for it.

Whats the problem, why should we reinvent the wheel if good things are available in the market with affordable price?

Like I said before, Insas was only adopted because we had no other option because of financial and other reasons. Remember why the 90s are called the lost decade in the military? It was short of fundings because of the bad financial situation. Furthermore we did not have access to the finest arms companies in the world (with full TOT etc)

 

[Alphacharlie]

We Hammered Pakistan with INSAS in Kargil.

Just cant Believe How civilians make comment on a SYSTEM which they have never even Lifted!!

 

[rockstarIN]

Like I said before, Insas was only adopted because we had no other option because of financial and other reasons. Remember why the 90s are called the lost decade in the military? It was short of fundings because of the bad financial situation. Furthermore we did not have access to the finest arms companies in the world (with full TOT etc)

Gun TOTs were always available. Any weapon could have reached us.

 

[Koovie]

Gun TOTs were always available. Any weapon could have reached us.

We did not have the money nor full access. Today, we can buy anything but that was not possible back then.

 

[humanfirst]

Insas is a $hitty weapon..I have no hope in Drdo producing any world class assault rifle comparable to G36 or tavor..Govt should encourage private firms in partnering with well established arms manufacturers to produce assault rifle and such for Indian armed forces..
I happened to meet a senior engineer of OFB who worked in insas..I was amazed at his ignorance on many things and the disgusting "thats enough for us" attittude!!The guy was vehemently arguing that LMG produced by OFB with 30 round magazine and rate of fire of 60 rpm is "more than enough for Indian army",When other nations use LMGs with box magazines of 400-600 rounds with rate of fire around 500-600 rpm!!These are the kind of people who holds senior offices in many govt factories..

 

[Alphacharlie]

We did not have the money nor full access. Today, we can buy anything but that was not possible back then.

Diagreed and Factually INCORRECT

 

[sarthak]

A massive Shame.

Most countries in the world like Isreal, China first procure weapons from abroad and the slowy learn to build their own. But we Indias built our own riffles in the past but today we can't. Why was all these years wasted?? Why we didn't work and improve upon the INSAS to make them competitive??

We also made our own trainer planes in the past but today we have to import them. Our nation is going to dogs and we are not doing anything about it.

How in the world is India "going to dogs" just because we can't manufacture a rifle ? The very reason world trade takes place is that some countries can build certain things better than others. If every country tried becoming self sufficient in everything ,the world economy would collapse. I'm sure Norway doesn't build its own rifles , so is it going to dogs? Several countries in the world make rifles , but not many can make a cryonic engine or blast a rocket into space ,or send a probe to Moon and Mars.

 

[indiatester]

Disagreed.

INSAS doesnt Over Heat Nor does the Gun Clog when in continuos use.

There have been instances where such complaints have surfaced. Including one by the Nepal Army. When you say "INSAS doesnt Over Heat", I think you meant it didn't overheat when you used it. You cannot generalise that to all the users. If I was the developer, I'd be happy that you have a good piece, but I will pay attention to the failure cases, do a fault analysis and then improve on it.

 

[Alphacharlie]

There have been instances where such complaints have surfaced. Including one by the Nepal Army. When you say "INSAS doesnt Over Heat", I think you meant it didn't overheat when you used it. You cannot generalise that to all the users. If I was the developer, I'd be happy that you have a good piece, but I will pay attention to the failure cases, do a fault analysis and then improve on it.

M16 Also, Clogs. It also Over Heats if you Burst 300 Rounds in a Go....Does this mean its Rubbish!!

Naplease Army - Dont want to even Comment. Yanks preffered INSAS when training in CI school

If you dont care for a weapon system it cant deliver....

Lets be relistic when measuring competencies.

 

[Koovie]

Diagreed and Factually INCORRECT

explain please. The 90s were the lost decade for the armed forces and our economy was at its low