Need for a Strike Aircraft (JH-7) for Naval Aviation

[Viper0011.]

Ohh you mean both platforms has two wings and pointy thing in the front...

You said JH7 core of JH7A lies in SU25 tech.... I asked how... and now you seem to hurt....

Read your post above, the stupidity has already begun. Someone once told me, don't argue with stupid people, they'll never know how to present any facts, they'll bring you down to their level and will beat you with stupidity and experience in that. I follow that smart man's advise.

The JH-7 shared wings with the Vedic super-craft that used to take your ancestors to Mars for lunch and back in half the day, running on two gallon of water, without wearing a flight suite or helmet. That's where I think the JH-7 came from. The Chinese tried to copy the Vedic super-jet from 6000 years ago!! And DAMN, they still couldn't reproduce it right. MAN, the Vedic times!!! Will the humans ever see that much knowledge, human advancement and technology ever again? Not going to happen!!

 

[MilSpec]

don't argue with stupid people, they'll never know how to present any facts, they'll bring you down to their level and will beat you with stupidity and experience in that.
!

Miaan saab,

Is that what you are trying to do... I asked a very simple question... please tell us what you mean by JH7's core tech lies in SU25... let's hear your "facts"... Instead of childish immature rants

 

[Viper0011.]

Miaan saab,

Is that what you are trying to do... I asked a very simple question... please tell us what you mean by JH7's core tech lies in SU25... let's hear your "facts"... Instead of childish immature rants

No reason to debate with you. Already told you that. Go engage in a discussion with someone else please

 

[MilSpec]

No reason to debate with you. Already told you that. Go engage in a discussion with someone else please

Ohhh nooooooooooo....

Where will I find another delusional know it all.... ohh wait.

 

[Viper0011.]

Ohhh nooooooooooo....

Where will I find another delusional know it all.... ohh wait.

People like you, don't care or follow any know it all, because they are so used to "lie it all".

 

[HRK]

Sir,

Two line are not enough of an answer----. Please put your mind to work and write a detailed view of your conclusions.

- We should first understand that this Aircraft is a part of overall war strategy & threat environment of PLAAF & PLAN; JH-7 is not a single system but a part of Active Defence strategy with a whole Anti Access (A2) & Area Denial (AD) package which create difficulties even for adversaries like USA

- We must have to understand the near sea capabilities of Chinese Navy, which is a leading regional Naval Power & seeking the dominance or otherwise gain in the near sea region, her regional opponents are small countries & can't keep phase with the comprehensive modernization of Chinese war fighting capabilities.

- China enjoy Air Superiority in near sea region & can create challenge even for US to control the Air & Space in those regions as exhibited previously in one or two occasions

- As per reports PLAN have 5 regiments of JH-7 (all derivatives included) with 2 J-8II, 1 Su-30MKK, & unknown numbers of J-11B & J-10 to provide Air cover to the JH-7; one thing to keep in mind that generally Chinese regiments consist of 25-30 Aircraft which mean

2 Regiments of J-8(II)=2x25=50 (high speed interceptor, capable of firing BVR missiles)
1 Regiments of Su-30=1x25=25

(IF J-11 & J-10 ARE NOT MORE THEN 1 REGIMENT EACH THEN)

1 Regiments of J-11=1x25 =25
1 Regiments of J-10=1x25 =25

this make 125 Fighter Aircraft to provide Air cover to the same number of JH-7 (25x5=125)

- In addition to this PLAAF assets can also provide support to PLAN operation in near sea defence.

On the other hand for Pakistan Navy

- We do know that PN do not have all necessary assets available to implement a comprehensive A2/AD strategy, therefore some more important areas like Arial defence for coastal areas, land base long range Anti Ship Cruise Missiles, Comprehensive NAVAL C4ISR (Coastal & Seaborne combine) are the few areas which present more pressing needs

- Our overall war fighting machinery is comparatively smaller then our enemy & will remain so in future as well, which mean they can employ more number of assets across the spectrum as compare to us, therefore our War fighting assets are required to be 'Multirole' then specific role assets, so that they can be employed to the most of the roles if not for every role.

- Indian Navy already have MiG-29 & Su-30 would also be available to them at the time of requirement which will make the survival of non-BVR capable aircraft very difficult in war theatre

- We do not have sufficient number of Air superiority fighter to provide the cover to AWACs, MPAs, Naval Ships & Bombers all at the same time.

- In short we basically do not have supportive systems from coastal base defence to Air superiority in littoral areas available to us which provides favourable environment for JH-7 operation in war zone

- Operation of JH-7 as an isolated system rather then as a part of comprehensive offensive defence package will prove a liability then an asset.

 

[tarrar]

@RAMPAGE Aye. I agree PAF burden should be reduced.

 

[Eagle Claw]

>> Different load config for JH-7A.

top left: normal bombing
top centre: Anti ship back up
top right: Anti ship vanguard
bottom left: deep strike
bottom centre: ground access denial
bottom right: precision strike

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The plane while its serving Chinese forces , is perhaps not idea for us for main reason

a) It is a slightly older platform which the Chinese themselves are replacing
b) The speed and payload is already lower then JF17 thunder

JF17 Thunder will automatically overshadow this jet in upcoming releases for Block 2
The extra money would be better spend on R&D for AESA or TOT

If we were looking for more Sukhoi-35 would be idea for Pakistani forces

 

[Eagle Claw]

The plane while its serving Chinese forces , is perhaps not idea for us for main reason

a) It is a slightly older platform which the Chinese themselves are replacing
b) The speed and payload is already lower then JF17 thunder

JF17 Thunder will automatically overshadow this jet in upcoming releases for Block 2
The extra money would be better spend on R&D for AESA or TOT

If we were looking for more Sukhoi-35 would be idea for Pakistani forces

How ???

 

[Viper0011.]

- We should first understand that this Aircraft is a part of overall war strategy & threat environment of PLAAF & PLAN; JH-7 is not a single system but a part of Active Defence strategy with a whole Anti Access (A2) & Area Denial (AD) package which create difficulties even for adversaries like USA

- We must have to understand the near sea capabilities of Chinese Navy, which is a leading regional Naval Power & seeking the dominance or otherwise gain in the near sea region, her regional opponents are small countries & can't keep phase with the comprehensive modernization of Chinese war fighting capabilities.

- China enjoy Air Superiority in near sea region & can create challenge even for US to control the Air & Space in those regions as exhibited previously in one or two occasions

- As per reports PLAN have 5 regiments of JH-7 (all derivatives included) with 2 J-8II, 1 Su-30MKK, & unknown numbers of J-11B & J-10 to provide Air cover to the JH-7; one thing to keep in mind that generally Chinese regiments consist of 25-30 Aircraft which mean

2 Regiments of J-8(II)=2x25=50 (high speed interceptor, capable of firing BVR missiles)
1 Regiments of Su-30=1x25=25

(IF J-11 & J-10 ARE NOT MORE THEN 1 REGIMENT EACH THEN)

1 Regiments of J-11=1x25 =25
1 Regiments of J-10=1x25 =25

this make 125 Fighter Aircraft to provide Air cover to the same number of JH-7 (25x5=125)

- In addition to this PLAAF assets can also provide support to PLAN operation in near sea defence.

On the other hand for Pakistan Navy

- We do know that PN do not have all necessary assets available to implement a comprehensive A2/AD strategy, therefore some more important areas like Arial defence for coastal areas, land base long range Anti Ship Cruise Missiles, Comprehensive NAVAL C4ISR (Coastal & Seaborne combine) are the few areas which present more pressing needs

- Our overall war fighting machinery is comparatively smaller then our enemy & will remain so in future as well, which mean they can employ more number of assets across the spectrum as compare to us, therefore our War fighting assets are required to be 'Multirole' then specific role assets, so that they can be employed to the most of the roles if not for every role.

- Indian Navy already have MiG-29 & Su-30 would also be available to them at the time of requirement which will make the survival of non-BVR capable aircraft very difficult in war theatre

- We do not have sufficient number of Air superiority fighter to provide the cover to AWACs, MPAs, Naval Ships & Bombers all at the same time.

- In short we basically do not have supportive systems from coastal base defence to Air superiority in littoral areas available to us which provides favourable environment for JH-7 operation in war zone

- Operation of JH-7 as an isolated system rather then as a part of comprehensive offensive defence package will prove a liability then an asset.

Great post. You've highlighted everything I have. Thank you. The key for folks reading this and wanting the JH-7 is the fact that your war theater currently doesn't need a strike platform. There aren't enough fighters to fight the war with India at all front. Adding escorts at this point, isn't feasible and won't happen.

So like I've said it in MANY posts, the core focus for the PAF is to strengthen herself to deny access and the area that the IAF needs to cause damage. You take down 50 SU-30's plus whatever other planes, the war is practically over and negotiations will take place. Forcing a quarter of the PAF or half of it on escort roles for the JH-7A, into areas where its highly likely that these JH-7 will no come back, isn't feasible. A rain of 100 cruise missiles for half the price of a heavy, effective air raid, guarantees more results. The air attack with JH-7A, in the current modern environment, doesn't guarantee a JH-7A even making it to the target, let alone doing any damage.
If the PAF had 500 BVR-able, 4th or 4.5 Gen fighters, then yes, it can easily divert 50 or 100 to escort or other duties. But that's not the case. At this time, get more Vipers, with more advanced AMRAAMS, focus on getting TOT or Semi-TOT but local assembly of J-31 type of a platform, and if budget allows, go for SU-35 or J-11D in the future

 

[Quwa]

Great post. You've highlighted everything I have. Thank you. The key for folks reading this and wanting the JH-7 is the fact that your war theater currently doesn't need a strike platform. There aren't enough fighters to fight the war with India at all front. Adding escorts at this point, isn't feasible and won't happen.

So like I've said it in MANY posts, the core focus for the PAF is to strengthen herself to deny access and the area that the IAF needs to cause damage. You take down 50 SU-30's plus whatever other planes, the war is practically over and negotiations will take place. Forcing a quarter of the PAF or half of it on escort roles for the JH-7A, into areas where its highly likely that these JH-7 will no come back, isn't feasible. A rain of 100 cruise missiles for half the price of a heavy, effective air raid, guarantees more results. The air attack with JH-7A, in the current modern environment, doesn't guarantee a JH-7A even making it to the target, let alone doing any damage.
If the PAF had 500 BVR-able, 4th or 4.5 Gen fighters, then yes, it can easily divert 50 or 100 to escort or other duties. But that's not the case. At this time, get more Vipers, with more advanced AMRAAMS, focus on getting TOT or Semi-TOT but local assembly of J-31 type of a platform, and if budget allows, go for SU-35 or J-11D in the future

Or maybe invest in HALE UAVs and equip them with ALCM and AShM.

 

[Basel]

Sir,

Two line are not enough of an answer----. Please put your mind to work and write a detailed view of your conclusions.

While visiting F-22P last year I talked about many issues with PN officer and one of them was Air Support they said JH-7 have no use for PN as it is not a multi role jet and it is under powered and it will not be able to defend it self againt threats like Mig-29Ks, Su-30MKIs, M2Ks etc. also they want a jet which can provide air cover putting less pressure on PAF's assets that is why they are more interested in JF-17s if J-11 class fighter is not available although they will love to have J-11B or higher series jet because it can perform all missions which PN will require in future and also can be used to provide air cover for long range missions of MPA's like P-3s which will be big issue for PN to protect. Also they said it will not be possible for bringing JH-7 jet on par with F/A-18G they said latter is far superior and can be game changer and China can not match its tech now.

 

[Viper0011.]

Or maybe invest in HALE UAVs and equip them with ALCM and AShM.

You know what? I ALMOST wrote that a couple of days ago. Proliferate UCAV tech inside your private sector, build BVR-able drones and heavier drones capable of launching ALCM's and stuff. The cost to number ratio would be marginal and benefits.....priceless!!!

But then I realize, folks here were still stuck in a derivative of older SU tech now being upgraded in the Shape of JH-7. So by putting drones into my post, I'd go way beyond the current standards being discussed. But absolutely, if the Pakistani industry can produce these, it would be the way to go.

 

[HAIDER]

Now that we have established that such a platform is required, we might as well have a separate thread to discuss it.

JH-7, having an AESA radar and HOBS capability seems like a good (maybe our only realistic) option.

Such a platform while having a good payload, will also relieve PAF, which will obviously have its hands full in a future conflit.

Aye or Nay?

@Horus @Hyperion @MastanKhan @Dazzler @Oscar @araz

JH7 is garbage. Been upgraded many time will retire soon.