Need for a Strike Aircraft (JH-7) for Naval Aviation

[Viper0011.]

JH-7 B if turns out to be a great Fighter Jet can be an option but our first focus should be getting either SU-35 or J-11 D than if needed go for JH-7 B for both Navy and Air Force with main Goal of deep strikes inside India.

I keep saying and you guys keep ignoring, the JH7 will bring a basic SU-25 ?(two decades ago) technology. Its not modern, doesn't have room for upgrades as its based off of older tech. The advancement with AESA and all is all you'll get. Plus, its a different tech base (older too), and will require expensive acquisitions for support and other equipment.

JFT (block III) should be able to do 80% of what JH7 does and a lot more. As is, the JFT is a superior platform to JH7, outside of AESA, which is a matter of a year or two, and once it gets ready for Block III of the JFT, the AESA will then be implemented in ALL other blocks too (I and II).

Pakistan needs to buy jets that come from the same class and manufacturing system, i.e. the JFT, FC-20, J-11 and j-16 variants. These were all built on the current tech and mechanical engineering standards, meaning with very little training to change configurations, your exiting labor can be re-used to run another assembly line running the FC-20 or J-11D manufacturing or at the least, component manufacturing. With J11, J16 or FC-20, you'll also get TOT or Assembly right or component development rights, which will help Pakistan come up to speed on medium or heavier fighter technologies (current standard) for a much affordable price tag.

The acquisition of Jxx series will also prepare Pakistan's industrial systems to support a future J-31 acquisition smoothly and quickly. The, engineers and support staff to through Jxx series, will get experienced with heavies, and associated avionics, and systems development, which again has many similarities with the J-31 (and of course many differences too, but the engineering and manufacturing systems used to design both, J-11 and J-31 have similarities and Pakistan gets to learn all those and use them).

 

[RAMPAGE]

I keep saying and you guys keep ignoring, the JH7 will bring a basic SU-25 ?(two decades ago) technology. Its not modern, doesn't have room for upgrades as its based off of older tech. The advancement with AESA and all is all you'll get. Plus, its a different tech base (older too), and will require expensive acquisitions for support and other equipment.

JFT (block III) should be able to do 80% of what JH7 does and a lot more. As is, the JFT is a superior platform to JH7, outside of AESA, which is a matter of a year or two, and once it gets ready for Block III of the JFT, the AESA will then be implemented in ALL other blocks too (I and II).

Pakistan needs to buy jets that come from the same class and manufacturing system, i.e. the JFT, FC-20, J-11 and j-16 variants. These were all built on the current tech and mechanical engineering standards, meaning with very little training to change configurations, your exiting labor can be re-used to run another assembly line running the FC-20 or J-11D manufacturing or at the least, component manufacturing. With J11, J16 or FC-20, you'll also get TOT or Assembly right or component development rights, which will help Pakistan come up to speed on medium or heavier fighter technologies (current standard) for a much affordable price tag.

The acquisition of Jxx series will also prepare Pakistan's industrial systems to support a future J-31 acquisition smoothly and quickly. The, engineers and support staff to through Jxx series, will get experienced with heavies, and associated avionics, and systems development, which again has many similarities with the J-31 (and of course many differences too, but the engineering and manufacturing systems used to design both, J-11 and J-31 have similarities and Pakistan gets to learn all those and use them).

Dont you get it? Chinese derivatives of SU 27 are not clear for export.

An no, JF-17 will not be able to do 80% of what JH-7 does. Can it carry 3x YJ 12s and still carry 2x BVRs and 2x WVRs?

@Horus

 

[Zarvan]

I keep saying and you guys keep ignoring, the JH7 will bring a basic SU-25 ?(two decades ago) technology. Its not modern, doesn't have room for upgrades as its based off of older tech. The advancement with AESA and all is all you'll get. Plus, its a different tech base (older too), and will require expensive acquisitions for support and other equipment.

JFT (block III) should be able to do 80% of what JH7 does and a lot more. As is, the JFT is a superior platform to JH7, outside of AESA, which is a matter of a year or two, and once it gets ready for Block III of the JFT, the AESA will then be implemented in ALL other blocks too (I and II).

Pakistan needs to buy jets that come from the same class and manufacturing system, i.e. the JFT, FC-20, J-11 and j-16 variants. These were all built on the current tech and mechanical engineering standards, meaning with very little training to change configurations, your exiting labor can be re-used to run another assembly line running the FC-20 or J-11D manufacturing or at the least, component manufacturing. With J11, J16 or FC-20, you'll also get TOT or Assembly right or component development rights, which will help Pakistan come up to speed on medium or heavier fighter technologies (current standard) for a much affordable price tag.

The acquisition of Jxx series will also prepare Pakistan's industrial systems to support a future J-31 acquisition smoothly and quickly. The, engineers and support staff to through Jxx series, will get experienced with heavies, and associated avionics, and systems development, which again has many similarities with the J-31 (and of course many differences too, but the engineering and manufacturing systems used to design both, J-11 and J-31 have similarities and Pakistan gets to learn all those and use them).

JH-7 is 4th Generation Jet and JH-7 B which is in the making will be a great Jet. Pretty much equivalent of SU-34. JXX are not going to come for next 10 years and even if come by than will only be very few squadrons. We need lot more.

Dont you get it? Chinese derivatives of SU 27 are not clear for export.

An no, JF-17 will not be able to do 80% of what JH-7 does. Can it carry 3x YJ 12s and still carry 2x BVRs and 2x WVRs?

@Horus

They are clear for exports who told you they aren't

 

[Viper0011.]

JH-7 is 4th Generation Jet and JH-7 B which is in the making will be a great Jet. Pretty much equivalent of SU-34. JXX are not going to come for next 10 years and even if come by than will only be very few squadrons. We need lot more.

Do you honestly think that JH-7B will be purchased in numbers and there is a valid case knowing the JFT block III is coming and in numbers, with more wing space, powerful engine and hard-points.......when you have a platform that you could yourself, turn into semi JH-7B.....why pay to acquire yet another platform and not use your own???

Dont you get it? Chinese derivatives of SU 27 are not clear for export.

An no, JF-17 will not be able to do 80% of what JH-7 does. Can it carry 3x YJ 12s and still carry 2x BVRs and 2x WVRs?

@Horus

I do get it.....and I think the PAF does too. But the J-xx will be cleared to export to Pakistan or F-20 in numbers a better option. OR, the SU-35 can be exercised with more -16's and JFT block III coming also.

JFT Block III can do 80% of the JH-7's job. I am positive about. If the power plant and hard points increase, the JFT should be able to carry two BVR's for protection with 2 YJ-12's at the least. But its your own platform, much cheaper to build in numbers and maintain.

I am ready to put my money on it that the PAF won't look into JH-7A or B. It's not a fighter. Its a strike / bomber. Just because it can fire a BVR missile, doesn't mean it can defend itself against enemy's missiles or in a dog fight. A Mig 21 would probably take it out in a Dog Fight.

Pakistan doesn't have the financials, area-depth or the strategy to have hundreds of jets where you'll have plenty of escort planes to escort the JH-7 strike packages over a long area where enemy is hundreds of miles away.....

Due to immediate border with India, they want multi-role to do both, strike (even 20% less than the JH-7's weight) but have the ability to quickly turn into a fighter as need be. For heavies, the SU-35, the J-xx are good options and they will be available for Pakistan soon.

I think I made my points, I am going to now let you guys go at it and watch the thread. Might jump in later.

@Horus : any insight from your end into PAF's planning on JH-7? Last I knew, there was 0 traction and that was two months ago. But do let us know if stuff changed from the 2025 strategy being built.

 

[ZooZoo]

Its old technology man... Gripppen will be better than it.....

God know when China will stop production of this old JH7 Fighter.. The support will be nightmare then...

If Pakistan really want to invest, they should go for J31 (Medium class fighter of China) or Saab Grippen...

 

[Tipu7]

Big NO for JH7.....
It stands no chance against Mig29K in a dogfight, although it will be able to carry handsome size of ammo, but it's not the complete answer.......
Firstly it's not confirmed that PN will have its own air wing of fighter squadron.....
If yes then it will be Blk 2 JFT. No Su34, No Jh7, No any thing else yet...... Pakistan will try to use long range cruise missiles or anti ship missiles via P3 Orion......
I do wish a heavy attack aircrAft in PN too..... but sadly it's not going to happen.......

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@MastanKhan

Sir,
I do like your posts a lot but here I am surprised and really confused on how can you with all the intellect can even think of advocating such an aircraft when there are much better options available around the corner.

Sir, if I may say.
Provided (hypothetically) PAF has a budget of USD 1-2 Bil. why will they not enter into 5th Gen. joint venture with Turkey on the Turkish Fighter X project of order J-31's or for that matter even ask the Russians for the 4++ Su-35's or F-18 Supper Hornets or Growlers or F-16 blk 60's.

 

[Neptune]

Why invest on fighter aircraft with maritime roles when IN keeps strengthen its AAW capabilities add a CBG, can't your air force do the needs of such a scenario?

I am sure it will be out of consideration. You can't 'encounter' Indian Navy with that. If I were to put my opinion, I'd invest on CIWSs and ship defense systems and try to get the best I can from the Chinese which will cost much cheaper, wouldn't harm the resource allocation and would put a barrier to IN's highly increasing over the horizon surface strike capabilities.

 

[Viking 63]

If I remember correctly PAF did evaluate both JH-7 and F-8. sometime back , maybe 5-7 years ago, and had rejected both the aircrafts, as they did the early Mig-29 in Poland as useless !!!
so I think no JH-7 for now, but I like to see PAF going for heavy ground attack much heavier than JF-17 can carry.

 

[MilSpec]

At the core of the JH7A, lies the SU-25 tech. .


I keep saying and you guys keep ignoring, the JH7 will bring a basic SU-25 ?(two decades ago) technology.

Interesting.
As JH7 A and Su25 Frogfoot differ quite a bit.

You say at the core of JH7A lies in SU25 tech, may I ask what tech that might be, because from what I can see, they share nothing in common w.r.t airframe design, aerofoil design, powrplant, service ceiling, top speed, flight envelope, flight control system, so much so that roles of the two aircrafts are distinctly different. SU25 is an armored CAS Fighter for supporting ground troop movement and JH7 series designed as a Fighter/Bomber - Strike aircraft for precision munition delivery.

If anything a JH7 would be closer to a SU24 Fencer on role than to a SU25 frogfoot, albeit not sharing any of similar systems?

And FYI - SU25 entered service in 81, making it a 3 decade old Plane....

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Interesting.
As JH7 A and Su25 Frogfoot differ quite a bit.

You say at the core of JH7A lies in SU25 tech, may I ask what tech that might be, because from what I can see, they share nothing in common w.r.t airframe design, aerofoil design, powrplant, service ceiling, top speed, flight envelope, flight control system, so much so that roles of the two aircrafts are distinctly different. SU25 is an armored CAS Fighter for supporting ground troop movement and JH7 series designed as a Fighter/Bomber - Strike aircraft for precision munition delivery.

If anything a JH7 would be closer to a SU24 Fencer on role than to a SU25 frogfoot, albeit not sharing any of similar systems?

Are you trying to compare Chalk with Cheese........ Janaab.

 

[Basel]

For those who think JH-7A is answer to PN's need then please be real it can't hold against the threat posed, PN have rejected it and they know that J-11 class fighter is the real need of time now.

 

[Eagle Claw]

well i highly doubt that price .. 20Million $ , our JF is 25-30 M $ ...
if its true than we should get 2 sqs , one for navy and one for PAF , we cant put everything on JF , but assigning different roles to it ..

Yes its Price will Be Around 20 Million USD Because JH-7A's Price was 10-11 Million USD !
If Price Goes to 25 Million USD !
Even then It is Great Deal for PAF/PN !
2 Squadrons of these Heavies Are Enough to Create Terrible Mess in Enemy's Territory.

 

[MastanKhan]

For those who think JH-7A is answer to PN's need then please be real it can't hold against the threat posed, PN have rejected it and they know that J-11 class fighter is the real need of time now.

Sir,

Two line are not enough of an answer----. Please put your mind to work and write a detailed view of your conclusions.

 

[MilSpec]

Let me be VERY direct with you. With the stupidity that I've dealt with on other posts and knowing your ACTUAL expertise in this area, and your brain power on fact based things, I have 0 tolerance for stupidity and childish drama. If I ever decide to join high school stupidity.com, I'll send you an invite and you can waste your life by writing posts on there and I'll waste mine by responding to utter nonsense.

So instead of wasting time, I'd say you have a right to "think" how something could be. While someone might "know" how something actually is. Enjoy your time on here

Ohh you mean both platforms has two wings and pointy thing in the front...

You said JH7 core of JH7A lies in SU25 tech.... I asked how... and now you seem to hurt....lets see how much you "know"