Nearly Blacklisted, Finmeccanica Could Lose BIG In India

[KRAIT]

@arp2041

Why are you brinign security of VVIPs, we don't want cancellation of deal. We want corruption to be revealed. At least take into account revelation by Italian agencies and Italian court

When I was a boy and I used to go to my friend's home to play, there was a black dog on the street in my way, who will charge at anyone and if you show fear or run away, he used to follow me until I was no longer on that street.

So before entering that street, I used to pick up few stones and throw just one stone and dog used to back away. Then I will keep doing that throwing action without throwing the stones and dog always ran away. Soon, I don't have to pick the stone, just clinch my hands and do a throw act. Dog always backed off.

Sometimes the threat of an action delivers equal result s the action itself.

This cancellation of deal and possible blacklisting is just that threat. Italian economy is bad and it will affect this company a hell lot. loosing a deal like these results in laying off the staff.

So, its just a threat to push Italy t oreveal the name of the people involved.

Its about corruption and you are acting like typical "Chalta hai attitude" Indian people have to be kicked to get up against corruption, every single day.

Otherwise same result will be like in Case of Black Money. No more protest and may be by now the money ight have been shifted.

Don't judge others. You are good at technical stuff, but this case is more about MoD officials possible linkages in Corruption.

If we don't ask answer and make our govt. to tell us the reality, our coming generation will have same "Chalta hai" attitude like yours.

P.S. If Italian agencies have done investigation and the matter is in court, isn't it obvious there are Indian people are involved. To clear the doubt, you HAVE to pressurize govt. to take decisive action.

 

[Abingdonboy]

cool.........

IDS infotech is company where my room mate works and its one of the best in chandigarh.They shipped 217 crores and you may be ignorant about bribe culture in india but we are not.Every news paper in india is indicating towards only one family and we have only one national family .



You can call me anything....I just call spade a spade.

Every body knows where these choppers were going to be used as most of these parliament mfkers uses army choppers or AF choppers.

PM RM or anybody ...i am against every politician who uses these kinda facilities and loot our nation...
give our nation and people not use or loot these resources for own use.

Go by trian or any vehicle...

BC inke paas kumbh mein jaane ke liye train ni hai ..wahan koi ek medical facility tak ni hai ..and they spend on choppers who even U.S rejected..

inke baap ka maal hai?

i will continue to write ...n u r free to call me anything ..
i talk while standing on ground n by knowing condition at ground.

The Gandhi family have ZERO right to use these helos- they would NOT be using the AW-101s unless they were accompanying the PM or President. This is a categorical fact.

The only people who will use the AW-101s is the PM,President, service chiefs and a few -select- senior cabinet ministers. The media is hyping up the news and not reporting FACTS.

+ the media is talking out of their backsides- they are not following even the most basic journalistic practices just spouting lies and half-truths. Don't believe a thing they are telling you.

 

[arp2041]

@arp2041

Why are you brinign security of VVIPs, we don't want cancellation of deal. We want corruption to be revealed. At least take into account revelation by Italian agencies and Italian court

When I was a boy and I used to go to my friend's home to play, there was a black dog on the street in my way, who will charge at anyone and if you show fear or run away, he used to follow me until I was no longer on that street.

So before entering that street, I used to pick up few stones and throw just one stone and dog used to back away. Then I will keep doing that throwing action without throwing the stones and dog always ran away. Soon, I don't have to pick the stone, just clinch my hands and do a throw act. Dog always backed off.

Sometimes the threat of an action delivers equal result s the action itself.

This cancellation of deal and possible blacklisting is just that threat. Italian economy is bad and it will affect this company a hell lot. loosing a deal like these results in laying off the staff.

So, its just a threat to push Italy t oreveal the name of the people involved.

Its about corruption and you are acting like typical "Chalta hai attitude" Indian people have to be kicked to get up against corruption, every single day.

Otherwise same result will be like in Case of Black Money. No more protest and may be by now the money ight have been shifted.

Don't judge others. You are good at technical stuff, but this case is more about MoD officials possible linkages in Corruption.

If we don't ask answer and make our govt. to tell us the reality, our coming generation will have same "Chalta hai" attitude like yours.

P.S. If Italian agencies have done investigation and the matter is in court, isn't it obvious there are Indian people are involved. To clear the doubt, you HAVE to pressurize govt. to take decisive action.

Why this all BS for writing just those three words???

Anyways, Did i ever said that I am favoring corruption & the corrupt in this deal??? I just made a simple point that when it comes to a choice b/w corruption & Indian Security, i'll choose the latter any day.

The larger point is the MEDIA TRIAL, which i am against of on the first place. Don't you think it is really threatening for the future of this country that whatever media shows to us, we take it at face value & assume it to be THE ULTIMATE TRUTH & don't even dare question it?? The Glass of water was Half Filled & Half Empty, one started a news that it was Half Empty, now every news channel has catched the news & repeating the same line as parrot that the Glass is Half Empty. We have atleast 50+ news channel, isn't this shocking that not a single one is thinking of the possibility that the Glass can even be Half filled (who knows)???

The Thing is that we should be OPEN to what is on the other side of the coin. If a coin is tossed & lands always on a Head doesn't mean that it doesn't have a Tail, is it??

Just Let the Investigations & Court complete it's job, than Hang whoever you want to, we can obviously have PATIENCE till than, can we???

 

[Paan Singh]

Why this all BS for writing just those three words???

Anyways, Did i ever said that I am favoring corruption & the corrupt in this deal??? I just made a simple point that when it comes to a choice b/w corruption & Indian Security, i'll choose the latter any day.

The larger point is the MEDIA TRIAL, which i am against of on the first place. Don't you think it is really threatening for the future of this country that whatever media shows to us, we take it at face value & assume it to be THE ULTIMATE TRUTH?? The Glass of water was Half Filled & Half Empty, one started a news that it was Half Empty, now every news channel has catched the news & repeating the same line as parrot that the Glass is Half Empty. We have atleast 50+ news channel, isn't this shocking that not a single one is thinking of the possibility that the Glass can even be Half filled (who knows)???

The Thing is that we should be OPEN to what is on the other side of the coin. If a coin is tossed & lands always on a Head doesn't mean that it doesn't have a Tail, is it??

Just Let the Investigations & Court complete it's job, than Hang whoever you want to, we can obviously have PATIENCE till than, can we???

As per former CBI chief,it will take 1 year for investigation to complete and we have culture to forget every thing in 2-3 months.

2G scam yaad hai? CWG scam yaad hai? adarsh society yaad hai? kon se year mein hua tha?

no ..

so they will go ..

Even vadra scam was of 300 crore directly with gandhi family,kon pakda gya?

so u want to remain in delusions,ok

 

[KRAIT]

@arp2041 I give up. Don'rt know why you have this idea that I want cancellation of deal and compromise national security (like 12 new helis can do the job which current one won't do)

Get these points of me -
1. I don't want cancellation of Deal.

2. I want threat to be used to push Italian to reveal the names. US do it, China do it everyone does it. threats works even if you really don't want follow it at first place.

3. About media trial. I remember Black Money case. Govt. said same thing, let the investigation complete, the are not telling us name, blah blah blah.
People like you were on high horses and even started shouting bring Modi in place of this corrupt govt. ou lost interest in that case. And govt. suppressed it. Is any one talking about black money ? NO. So just hang own let the media bark so that govt. also have to do things since its media who also goes to BJP like rajnath singh etc. who make it a big issue like media do, and hence help in elections. Advani has said that elections may held in 2013. I sense a No Confidence motion.

My point is let media shout what they want, I have my own rationale, I take only that part which is relevant. I take only those facts like confession o that US person into account. I don't take Arnab Goswami's words.

And or love of God, Corruption and National Security, everyone's priority will be National Security.

I think exact same things you mentioned. All I am asking is keeping the PRESSURE on the GOVT. Media can do it, Opposition can do it as they will have numerous channels to use it but you can't.


I will accept any decision AFTER the investigation is over. I don't give a flying F if Media has given its verdict. I believe in Law, not media.

P.S. Please don't pass judgement on me. If you don't agree, then lets agree to disagree instead of calling "Liberal" and blah blah, using condescending tone.

 

[Abingdonboy]

As per former CBI chief,it will take 1 year for investigation to complete and we have culture to forget every thing in 2-3 months.

2G scam yaad hai? CWG scam yaad hai? adarsh society yaad hai? kon se year mein hua tha?

no ..

so they will go ..

Even vadra scam was of 300 crore directly with gandhi family,kon pakda gya?

so u want to remain in delusions,ok

So what is the alternative? You cannot change the 1yr timeline- this is how long these things take. It is society's fault if such things are forgotten in 2-3 months.

You can not start passing judgement based purely o what the yellow "desi" Media is telling you- they've already made up their minds based on their own assumptions and prejudice.

You MUST let probes and investigations take their due course and wait for a final verdict.


Whatever you THINK you know is based on what? Media reports??! Please these idiots are beyond ignorant- how can they possibly know the verdict of any investigation when it is classified and ongoing??!!

 

[arp2041]

As per former CBI chief,it will take 1 year for investigation to complete and we have culture to forget every thing in 2-3 months.

Ok, now this is a SERIOUS point you have made here, according to you, only b'coz it takes months (or in some cases years) for investigations to complete, every person portrayed by Media as involved in corruption should be Hanged??? This is no joke, since tomorrow it can happen to you, where on purely circumstantial evidence media can announce that you are involved in corruption & the people will started calling for sending you to jail, but than you have no options since Courts take lot of time, & you urself are setting a Dangerous Precedence. What happened to "Innocent until Proven Guilty" theory??? Isn't this the theory on which every Legal procedure in the world works??

2G scam yaad hai? CWG scam yaad hai? adarsh society yaad hai? kon se year mein hua tha?

2G scam happened in 2008 where the last dates were preponed to favor few companies, many companies had no experience in telecom sector which was against the practice of giving license, first reveled by the Hindu in 2010 & latter the CAG report tabled the losses as Rs. 1.76 crore whereas entire spectrum was sold in just Rs. 10k crore.

CWG scam, again massive corruption in procuring minor things which resulted in huge cost overruns.

Adarsh Society was made on the land of Defence ministry & was made for giving flats to the relatives of armed forces, but instead many flats were given to Politicians & that building was even not having NOC from environment ministry & IN. Maharashtra CM was changed & Prithviraj Chavan was made new CM b'coz there was allegations of his involvement.

I remember everything, i have made up my mind to give my fitting reply through the power of Democracy - My Vote.

no ..

so they will go ..

Even vadra scam was of 300 crore directly with gandhi family,kon pakda gya?

so u want to remain in delusions,ok

I am not in any Delusion mate, I am just trying to differentiate Facts from Fiction.

 

[Paan Singh]

So what is the alternative? You cannot change the 1yr timeline- this is how long these things take. It is society's fault if such things are forgotten in 2-3 months.

You can not start passing judgement based purely o what the yellow "desi" Media is telling you- they've already made up their minds based on their own assumptions and prejudice.

You MUST let probes and investigations take their due course and wait for a final verdict.


Whatever you THINK you know is based on what? Media reports??! Please these idiots are beyond ignorant- how can they possibly know the verdict of any investigation when it is classified and ongoing??!!

I am taking lessons from investigations who took place earlier.Tell me a single case,where CBI solved the issue.
now what you will say? is this society fault? no .

CBI was the agency who did every thing to save quatrochhi in bofors gun bribe case against rajiv gandhi and you are expecting them to solve this?CBI is govt controlled so tell me why govt will want it to get her neck.

One more point,Govt have one department which is not in control i.e CAG and morons in parliament tried to alter its selection process even and they are after its chief.

Just tell me case where CBI solved it perfectly.I am talking about general corruption cases.

 

[Paan Singh]

Writing in The Pioneer (here), J Gopikrishnan (who broke the 2G scam, long before it became a national talking point) establishes a link that connects both the middlemen in the AgustaWestland deal to the family business of a Congress functionary who is considered close to Rahul Gandhi.

Citing an Italian news report from November 2012 (here, in Italian), The Pioneer reports that the father of Christian Michel, the main commission agent in the AgustaWestland deal, was “close to the Congress party”. The other middleman in the deal, Guido Ralph Haschke, was more organically linked: he served briefly as a Director on the board of Emaar-MGF, a real estate company promoted by the father of Kanishka Singh, who is a close aide of Rahul Gandhi.

Very little is known about the other middleman, Christian Michel, even though he is evidently a familiar figure in Delhi’s arms dalal circuit. According to the Italian media report, his father, Wolfgang Max Michel Richard, was a British businessman who was active inIndia during the 1980s and 1990s and was close to the Congress party. Wolfgang Michel evidently had business interests in Libya, Russia, Iran and Iraq.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/cong....html?utm_source=frontpagepicks&utm_medium=hp

Sadly, the CBI’s record on this front has not been too inspirational. As happened in the Bofors case, at some point in the investigation, the political leadership in India, which was directly implicated in the bribery scandal, was susceptible to the possibility of blackmail by the Bofors manufacturer, since they had far more to lose from damaging revelations about the payoffs. The entire investigative effort at that time, by the CBI initially and by the Joint Parliamentary Committee (which was packed with ruling party members and supporters), was directed at ensuring that officials at Nobel Industries (the gun manufacturer) did not disclose any incriminating details that would embarrass Rajiv Gandhi.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/scrapping-agusta-chopper-deal-sets-stage-for-next-scam-627708.html?utm_source=frontpagepicks&utm_medium=hp

 

[arp2041]

@KRAIT Just my last post on this one......

The question is not just of cancellation of just 12 choppers deal, Indian armed forces are much more capable to handle such a small loss. But the question is of it's impact on larger Indian Armed Forces modernization. Already in some quarters we have noises of corruption (purely BS) involved in Rafale deal & u very well know how important those planes are to overall IAF's modernization, I mean where will this end???

+ The cancellation of deal will affect the Trustworthiness of India as credible defence importer nation as even the successful arms bidder will be skeptic if he will really be able to sell weapons to India or not. As it is the deal was sign some 5-6 years back & IAF has already inducted 3 choppers & now we are talking about the cancellation of the deal resulting into huge losses for AW which will inturn make every foreign arms vendor skeptic & scared of entering Indian Arms Market.

+ I am ready to believe 2G scam, Coalgate, etc. since it was a credible constitutional authority of CAG which reveled such scams, but here we are only finding a Complete TRP driven MEDIA TRIAL. Thats why i am more in favor of months long investigation than days short Media Trial.

 

[KRAIT]

@arp2041 We both are at same plane but different focus. I completely agree with you. I just said use the threat but don't cancel in reality. I also think this may affect Rafale deal.

You don't want delay and loosing credibility as Customer and I also don't want no delay just a threat with swift investigation to follow.

I think I have to use better words and make things more clear so that we don't misunderstand each other. May be I presented wrongly but my intention was same. I think my wrong words used, created this confusion and argument between us.

Cheers.

 

[JanjaWeed]

So basically Finmeccanica is penalised not 'cause they are corrupt.. but because they got caught? Now that Italian govt is doing the right thing by investigating the firm, they are in the verge of getting blacklisted.

Just reminds me of that classic Al-yamamah arms deal between Saudi govt & BAE systems. Tony Blair stepped in & stopped serious fraud office from investigating the deal,.. 'cause it would have proved that BAE paid kickbacks in billions of $s to members of Saudi Royal Family. & Saudis were grumpy at the fact that a British investigating agency was trying to investigate a British company. Sounds funny eh... It just goes to show in defence deals everything is hunky dory as long as you keep the corruption going & don't get caught. Moment you get caught... you are blacklisted, will go to someone else who is better at keeping the shady secrets.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

It would be great of Saint Antony can get $ One billion in national damage cost as well as all the helicopters. Then I wont have any objection about this deal and Finmeccanica

 

[Abingdonboy]

It would be great of Saint Antony can get $ One billion in national damage cost as well as all the helicopters. Then I wont have any objection about this deal and Finmeccanica

If what I believe is happening- is actually happening, then I think India could, in a round about way, end up doing well(ish) from this deal and it would be not too far off what you have said. India is entitled to serious compensation (>$1BN) and still has the right to keep existing helos and accept delivery of the remaining 9 as the deal has not been cancelled to date. And like you say, Finmeccanica is going to want to smooth over this whole affair as quickly as possible or risk losing in excess of $10BN in potential future orders.

 

[KS]

Pure BS mate. Yes SG isn't whiter than white but to say she has a hand in bad things that happen in India is nonsense. SG has 0 involvement in this deal.

Sonia's sisters were involved in the deal and Kanishka Singh the right man of Rahul is also involved.

C'mon by now even you must be knowing the routine of this scam ridden govt.

I have actually resigned myself to fate about this country if it continues under this govt. What has to happen will happen.