Naval Tejas stalled, no flights for 8 months

[Taygibay]

Modi ki jai ho

Nah, I don't think so mate!
Some sensitive Indians thought I was unjust
in my opinion of their present milaero state
of things but that link above is twenty times
harsher than I ever was. Here, read :

"Further, Indian defense contractors had never completely produced a fighter jet in-country..."
​

They consider the TEJAS unfinished as of yet,
not in real production at best.

So if there is a Modi gang up to it, they can
go bark in the Comments section of that
calling-a-cat-a-cat Defense News article.

Not my circus no more, Tay.

 

[undercover JIX]

Nah, I don't think so mate!
Some sensitive Indians thought I was unjust
in my opinion of their present milaero state
of things but that link above is twenty times
harsher than I ever was. Here, read :

"Further, Indian defense contractors had never completely produced a fighter jet in-country..."
​

They consider the TEJAS unfinished as of yet,
not in real production at best.

So if there is a Modi gang up to it, they can
go bark in the Comments section of that
calling-a-cat-a-cat Defense News article.

Not my circus no more, Tay.

Sir, when dealing with India or Indians, reality, truth and honesty does not work. 99.999%.

 

[randomradio]

Hum! And how was that location decided upon?

How very Indian!

Puzzled, Tay.

It was made for operational aircraft, for training, not for development aircraft. The weather gives pilot trainees varied conditions to train in.

For development aircraft, like Tejas, they prefer to fly in clear weather, which is normal for any aircraft developer.

 

[SQ8]

At some point some Indian with a bit of self humility will have to accept the complete disaster this program is(not fighter). A muck of mismanagement, shifting goals posts and poor project development and supply chains.

However, knowing the people that reside in India; they would much rather doom their pilots and warfighting capability with this joke of an airplane rather than learn their lessons and move onto a more streamlined thought out project like the MCA.

I wont even bother responding to fanboys stuck in their delusions of their fighters garlanded progress.

 

[randomradio]

At some point some Indian with a bit of self humility will have to accept the complete disaster this program is(not fighter). A muck of mismanagement, shifting goals posts and poor project development and supply chains.

However, knowing the people that reside in India; they would much rather doom their pilots and warfighting capability with this joke of an airplane rather than learn their lessons and move onto a more streamlined thought out project like the MCA.

I wont even bother responding to fanboys stuck in their delusions of their fighters garlanded progress.

Specs of Mk1A:
Empty weight = 5.8T
Internal fuel load = 2.4T
External fuel load = 2.5T
Total payload = 5T
G load = +9/-3.5
Engines = either F404 with 92KN or Kaveri with 95KN

Please show me all the aircraft available with similar specs for fuel fraction and TWR.

And then combine this setup with a highly advanced 650mm dia digital GaN AESA and a new ramjet missile (not Meteor) and the I-Derby ER.

I am still one of the biggest critics of the Tejas program. But specs and configurations don't lie. There was a time when the LCA was laughable, but check the specs again.

The only drawback on the LCA is the lack of 2 more weapons stations on the wings, but the aircraft can be configured to carry 2 ramjet missiles in the centerline, 2 ramjets on the wings along with 2 ASRAAMs, 2 drop tanks and an EW pod.

All of this by 2021.

Good luck matching these specs on any of your planned aircraft.

Back in 2015, when HAL presented the IAF with the new specs for SOP-18, they made a complete U-turn. That's the only reason why the new order for 83 aircraft is really going through. It wasn't even on the agenda before that. The IAF have evinced interest in buying 3 more squadrons after the first 123.

 

[dreamer4eva]

But merely allocating funds will not energise the Naval Tejas programme, retorts a senior officer in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the Tejas programme. “A user service’s intent is evident from what it commits to the project in terms of test pilots, finance, oversight and most importantly moral support,” he says.
The navy has never committed more than three officers to the Tejas LCA. An ADA officer estimates that is one-fifth to one-tenth what the IAF has committed over the years.
Despite its protestations of support, the navy has steadily backed away from the Tejas programme. In March 2016, in the LCA Tejas Empowered Committee in the defence ministry, top admirals first declared the Tejas Mark I inadequate, but committed to supporting theMark 2.

I'm in project management, the above lines mean this project is doomed unless drastic changes are made. If I would be program manager of this, I would use the f word on my status update meeting regarding this project. And tell my boss, either everyone should be on the same page or I'm out of this project.

 

[SQ8]

Specs of Mk1A:
Empty weight = 5.8T
Internal fuel load = 2.4T
External fuel load = 2.5T
Total payload = 5T
G load = +9/-3.5
Engines = either F404 with 92KN or Kaveri with 95KN

Please show me all the aircraft available with similar specs for fuel fraction and TWR.

And then combine this setup with a highly advanced 650mm dia digital GaN AESA and a new ramjet missile (not Meteor) and the I-Derby ER.

I am still one of the biggest critics of the Tejas program. But specs and configurations don't lie. There was a time when the LCA was laughable, but check the specs again.

The only drawback on the LCA is the lack of 2 more weapons stations on the wings, but the aircraft can be configured to carry 2 ramjet missiles in the centerline, 2 ramjets on the wings along with 2 ASRAAMs, 2 drop tanks and an EW pod.

All of this by 2021.

Good luck matching these specs on any of your planned aircraft.

Back in 2015, when HAL presented the IAF with the new specs for SOP-18, they made a complete U-turn. That's the only reason why the new order for 83 aircraft is really going through. It wasn't even on the agenda before that. The IAF have evinced interest in buying 3 more squadrons after the first 123.

All izz well... now don’t waste my time with your parroting.

 

[淼淼De微笑]

I guess no one brave enough to fly this amazing aircraft,So it stalled.

 

[Han Patriot]

I thought the IN rejected naval LCA? What's the story?

 

[KapitaanAli]

I thought the IN rejected naval LCA? What's the story?

Navy rejected N-LCA Mk1 pointing out that it can't take off from ramp with full load.
But they continue to fund the LCA project.
LCA Mk2 is almost confirmed, most likely for both AF and Navy.


Maiden ski jump of NP-1, 2014:

 

[lonelyman]

All izz well... now don’t waste my time with your parroting.

Totally agree, some Indian kid boasting something on the paper

I can come up a power point slide show Vedic weapons by hanuman armies

 

[Taygibay]

At the “shore based test facility” (SBTF) in Goa – a concrete runway-cum-ramp that replicates an aircraft carrier deck — the easterly winter winds and furious west coast monsoon allow aircraft to take-off only in the February-to-June period.

It was made for operational aircraft, for training, not for development aircraft. The weather gives pilot trainees varied conditions to train in.

That is the most ridiculous attempt at rationalizing a mistake
I've heard in a long while ... but then again you've been less present lately ...

RR, that answer is what separates us, both you and me and ultra-
nationalist Indians from most folks save other ultra-nationalists.

Not flying for four months when you could have done so doesn't train
a pilot to anything save exasperation and patience.
If I apply that logic, you must train your lifeguards in the Himalaya &
grow your bananas in Antarctica.

You could have answered as an adult since the non-sensical situation
is a reality like RPK did. Everyone would have believed you as we all
have stupid officials & horrendous decision makers where we live!?!

But no, you pulled a half-baked excuse out of somewhere better left
unspecified and tried to mate it into the missing half of the stupid
idea that was that location choice and run with that ball they make!

And that's the worst Bharatiya trait possible. Not only does it compound
mistakes by justifying continuing with erroneous ways but it is based on
refusing critics if they seem in any way to sully your mythical view of India.
Here's the problem though : some of the critics point to facts! Like that Goa base ...

That is the behaviour of an adolescent mind, my poor man. Having been and
having raised such, I'm confident that any mental health specialist or doctor will confirm this.
You know very well that on your last two Indian fora, many of your bright
friends condemn things like HAL laziness and DRDO's spread thin efforts.
You know the LCA is not ready and that's why there even are talks on a SE
tender for aircrafts rejected in the MMRCA evaluation ... with new trials so
that they can be tested less severely as only asked to do better than Tejas
itself only asked to do better than MiG-21s. Fishbeds and Bisons #*ƒ«∞#!

Then you get the same objection raised on another place foreign if still Desi
and you turn back to SIT, ancient deities & alien tech mode to construct a
dream that you push as a true story to those that just watched you weave it!
DON'T DO THAT! It hurts if it applies in-house and delays corrective measures
and it makes you look like fools.

Oh! you laugh at Pakistan when an F-7 or a Mirage bites the dust in revenge
for when Pakistanis laugh at your own force dwindling gravity incidents, both
of which are disgraceful by the way, but India has no real money problem as
compared to Pakistan and yet can't refill it AF battle order. Why exactly? Hum?

You don't lack the pilots or the brains nor the money; you lack common sense!
And you lack common sense because all these magical India dreams allow you
to spit out any stupid trumped-up formula instead of maturing to the reality.

Why is there a MK1-M1A if not more line to a possible Mk2 that will possibly be
roughly the fighter the IAF wanted a decade ago?
Because the LCA is "a

never completely produced...fighter" DefenseNews dixit,
unfinished. And if you deny that, RR, you side with the dwindling squadron option
as you'll have the IAF wait for something that won't be there on time as you know.

Or denying that could lead to a quality decline instead with 183 or 9-10 squadrons
of below par birds very difficult if at all possible to retrofit.​

In the meanwhile, you operate soviet era wheelbarrows alongside
Angola, Cuba, Mali & Libya and Zambia or North Korea, not quite
the league of distinguished airforces and have the gall to pretend?

Here's a fact / reality pill that you may well choke on so I'll break it down :
​

By the time your highly vaunted totally *cough cough* indigenous modern fighter -stop-

so superior to the cooperation route puny poor Pakistan had to opt/settle for -stop-

reaches its third iteration hoped to be the really working one so long awaited -stop-

the JF-17 will be on its Thunderous Block III .
-stop-
​

Just read a sentence a day so as to have time to chew your cud
before the next gargantuan mouthful and wash it down a lot.
That's 3 real blocks versus 3 prototype pre-prod dreamy stages!

But hey, I now know from the nugget that prompted this rant'o'mine
what you'll tell me :

The bad batches will harden the pilots for the Flying Jewel to come!​

Tay.

 

[randomradio]

That is the most ridiculous attempt at rationalizing a mistake
I've heard in a long while ... but then again you've been less present lately ...

RR, that answer is what separates us, both you and me and ultra-
nationalist Indians from most folks save other ultra-nationalists.

Not flying for four months when you could have done so doesn't train
a pilot to anything save exasperation and patience.
If I apply that logic, you must train your lifeguards in the Himalaya &
grow your bananas in Antarctica.

You could have answered as an adult since the non-sensical situation
is a reality like RPK did. Everyone would have believed you as we all
have stupid officials & horrendous decision makers where we live!?!

But no, you pulled a half-baked excuse out of somewhere better left
unspecified and tried to mate it into the missing half of the stupid
idea that was that location choice and run with that ball they make!

And that's the worst Bharatiya trait possible. Not only does it compound
mistakes by justifying continuing with erroneous ways but it is based on
refusing critics if they seem in any way to sully your mythical view of India.
Here's the problem though : some of the critics point to facts! Like that Goa base ...

That is the behaviour of an adolescent mind, my poor man. Having been and
having raised such, I'm confident that any mental health specialist or doctor will confirm this.
You know very well that on your last two Indian fora, many of your bright
friends condemn things like HAL laziness and DRDO's spread thin efforts.
You know the LCA is not ready and that's why there even are talks on a SE
tender for aircrafts rejected in the MMRCA evaluation ... with new trials so
that they can be tested less severely as only asked to do better than Tejas
itself only asked to do better than MiG-21s. Fishbeds and Bisons #*ƒ«∞#!

Then you get the same objection raised on another place foreign if still Desi
and you turn back to SIT, ancient deities & alien tech mode to construct a
dream that you push as a true story to those that just watched you weave it!
DON'T DO THAT! It hurts if it applies in-house and delays corrective measures
and it makes you look like fools.

Oh! you laugh at Pakistan when an F-7 or a Mirage bites the dust in revenge
for when Pakistanis laugh at your own force dwindling gravity incidents, both
of which are disgraceful by the way, but India has no real money problem as
compared to Pakistan and yet can't refill it AF battle order. Why exactly? Hum?

You don't lack the pilots or the brains nor the money; you lack common sense!
And you lack common sense because all these magical India dreams allow you
to spit out any stupid trumped-up formula instead of maturing to the reality.

Why is there a MK1-M1A if not more line to a possible Mk2 that will possibly be
roughly the fighter the IAF wanted a decade ago?
Because the LCA is "a

never completely produced...fighter" DefenseNews dixit,
unfinished. And if you deny that, RR, you side with the dwindling squadron option
as you'll have the IAF wait for something that won't be there on time as you know.

Or denying that could lead to a quality decline instead with 183 or 9-10 squadrons
of below par birds very difficult if at all possible to retrofit.​

In the meanwhile, you operate soviet era wheelbarrows alongside
Angola, Cuba, Mali & Libya and Zambia or North Korea, not quite
the league of distinguished airforces and have the gall to pretend?

Here's a fact / reality pill that you may well choke on so I'll break it down :
​

By the time your highly vaunted totally *cough cough* indigenous modern fighter -stop-

so superior to the cooperation route puny poor Pakistan had to opt/settle for -stop-

reaches its third iteration hoped to be the really working one so long awaited -stop-

the JF-17 will be on its Thunderous Block III .
-stop-
​

Just read a sentence a day so as to have time to chew your cud
before the next gargantuan mouthful and wash it down a lot.
That's 3 real blocks versus 3 prototype pre-prod dreamy stages!

But hey, I now know from the nugget that prompted this rant'o'mine
what you'll tell me :

The bad batches will harden the pilots for the Flying Jewel to come!​

Tay.

Wow, man! What's up with this rant?

The Mig-29Ks are flown from the facility all year round. Tejas being a development aircraft is flown only during clear weather. Why is this so hard to get?

The officials confirmed the same with respect to Tejas requiring clear weather, that's why one of our development facilities was built up in an area which is sunny throughout the year.

Not to mention, the facility is only a training facility. For regular operational flights, we don't need the facility, we use a regular ol' runway, Mr. Expert.

As for Tejas. Again, look up the specs I posted in #20. You were a pilot, so you can calculate basic details like fuel fraction, TWR etc. Just compare that with the M-2000 if you want to.

You make one more mistake. The IAF won't buy a lemon. They never had plans of buying 83 Mk1 aircraft. Their plan was to buy an improved Mk2, but with the way things are going, the Mk2 is entirely useless now because it will be hard for it to match the Mk1A's specs. IAF has also officially said they won't be going for the Mk2 when they made the decision for the Mk1A, although they will support its development.

The reason for it is simple. Mk2 is being developed by ADA. Mk1A is being developed by HAL. So we now have 2 design agencies working on 2 different aircraft.

You stupidly believe that the LCA is being forced down on the IAF. That's so far from the truth that it's funny. Nothing is forced down on the forces. Stuff has to clear trials first. We don't announce IOC and then integrate weapons and avionics many years later like some other people do.

Even if we are buying the Mk1A, it doesn't change the fact that we need a SE fighter as well as a TE fighter. I have already explained the kind of numbers we need, it can't be fulfilled by one fighter line alone. The decision to go for a SE fighter has nothing to do with the Mk1A. The requirements don't clash. The Mk1As are expected to escort the SE and TE fighter in strike missions. Hell, even the timeframe for induction of Mk1A and SE/TE MII don't clash. Once the Su-30 production run is over, we will only have Mk1As being produced for many years until the other MII programs start. It's the SE and TE requirements that actually clash.

The problems is you guys have info that's many years old. So your opinions will reflect that time. Interestingly, with the old info, my opinion echoes with that of yours. And it did with the IAF too. But what do you think has changed for the IAF to change their view now? Haven't you stopped to think that?

Give it sometime, once info comes out, you will be forced to chew on your JF-17 cud forever.

 

[Sugarcane]

That is the most ridiculous attempt at rationalizing a mistake
I've heard in a long while ... but then again you've been less present lately ...

RR, that answer is what separates us, both you and me and ultra-
nationalist Indians from most folks save other ultra-nationalists.

Not flying for four months when you could have done so doesn't train
a pilot to anything save exasperation and patience.
If I apply that logic, you must train your lifeguards in the Himalaya &
grow your bananas in Antarctica.

You could have answered as an adult since the non-sensical situation
is a reality like RPK did. Everyone would have believed you as we all
have stupid officials & horrendous decision makers where we live!?!

But no, you pulled a half-baked excuse out of somewhere better left
unspecified and tried to mate it into the missing half of the stupid
idea that was that location choice and run with that ball they make!

And that's the worst Bharatiya trait possible. Not only does it compound
mistakes by justifying continuing with erroneous ways but it is based on
refusing critics if they seem in any way to sully your mythical view of India.
Here's the problem though : some of the critics point to facts! Like that Goa base ...

That is the behaviour of an adolescent mind, my poor man. Having been and
having raised such, I'm confident that any mental health specialist or doctor will confirm this.
You know very well that on your last two Indian fora, many of your bright
friends condemn things like HAL laziness and DRDO's spread thin efforts.
You know the LCA is not ready and that's why there even are talks on a SE
tender for aircrafts rejected in the MMRCA evaluation ... with new trials so
that they can be tested less severely as only asked to do better than Tejas
itself only asked to do better than MiG-21s. Fishbeds and Bisons #*ƒ«∞#!

Then you get the same objection raised on another place foreign if still Desi
and you turn back to SIT, ancient deities & alien tech mode to construct a
dream that you push as a true story to those that just watched you weave it!
DON'T DO THAT! It hurts if it applies in-house and delays corrective measures
and it makes you look like fools.

Oh! you laugh at Pakistan when an F-7 or a Mirage bites the dust in revenge
for when Pakistanis laugh at your own force dwindling gravity incidents, both
of which are disgraceful by the way, but India has no real money problem as
compared to Pakistan and yet can't refill it AF battle order. Why exactly? Hum?

You don't lack the pilots or the brains nor the money; you lack common sense!
And you lack common sense because all these magical India dreams allow you
to spit out any stupid trumped-up formula instead of maturing to the reality.

Why is there a MK1-M1A if not more line to a possible Mk2 that will possibly be
roughly the fighter the IAF wanted a decade ago?
Because the LCA is "a

never completely produced...fighter" DefenseNews dixit,
unfinished. And if you deny that, RR, you side with the dwindling squadron option
as you'll have the IAF wait for something that won't be there on time as you know.

Or denying that could lead to a quality decline instead with 183 or 9-10 squadrons
of below par birds very difficult if at all possible to retrofit.​

In the meanwhile, you operate soviet era wheelbarrows alongside
Angola, Cuba, Mali & Libya and Zambia or North Korea, not quite
the league of distinguished airforces and have the gall to pretend?

Here's a fact / reality pill that you may well choke on so I'll break it down :
​

By the time your highly vaunted totally *cough cough* indigenous modern fighter -stop-

so superior to the cooperation route puny poor Pakistan had to opt/settle for -stop-

reaches its third iteration hoped to be the really working one so long awaited -stop-

the JF-17 will be on its Thunderous Block III .
-stop-
​

Just read a sentence a day so as to have time to chew your cud
before the next gargantuan mouthful and wash it down a lot.
That's 3 real blocks versus 3 prototype pre-prod dreamy stages!

But hey, I now know from the nugget that prompted this rant'o'mine
what you'll tell me :

The bad batches will harden the pilots for the Flying Jewel to come!​

Tay.

Ouch....

 

[Taygibay]

The Mig-29Ks are flown from the facility all year round. Tejas being a development aircraft is flown only during clear weather. Why is this so hard to get?
The officials confirmed the same with respect to Tejas requiring clear weather, that's why one of our development facilities was built up in an area which is sunny throughout the year.

Not to mention, the facility is only a training facility. For regular operational flights, we don't need the facility, we use a regular ol' runway, Mr. Expert.

Well, as I said to Jix, take that up with Business Standard @
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-2-s-development-crippled-118012200008_1.html

I'm not the one that said that base was useless 4 months per year.
And I do get it that -"For regular operational flights, we don't need
the facility, we use a regular ol' runway..." but as you said yourself,
it still doesn't fix the 33% loss in flight time for your quasi-fighter
since it -"... is flown only during clear weather.".

As for Tejas. Again, look up the specs I posted in #20. You were a pilot, so you can calculate basic details like fuel fraction, TWR etc. Just compare that with the M-2000 if you want to.

Yeah well, I never flew for my airforce, only civilian planes.
My mil job was very much on the ground and in your face.

Still, I'll admit to great numbers on paper of course such
as 25% gain on payload over MiG 21 but with shorter range
and a yet to be specified ( FOC this year or not ) availability.
Like this : "There is not frozen standard of preparation of LCA except for the IOC." Managing director of HAL T Suvarna Raju
http://indianexpress.com/article/bu...of-lca-thats-where-delays-are-coming-4944113/

I hope an article from Nov. 2017 is not

info that's many years old

​

You make one more mistake. The IAF won't buy a lemon. They never had plans of buying 83 Mk1 aircraft. Their plan was to buy an improved Mk2, but with the way things are going, the Mk2 is entirely useless now because it will be hard for it to match the Mk1A's specs. IAF has also officially said they won't be going for the Mk2 when they made the decision for the Mk1A, although they will support its development.

The reason for it is simple. Mk2 is being developed by ADA. Mk1A is being developed by HAL. So we now have 2 design agencies working on 2 different aircraft.

And you don't see how two agencies working on potential
aircrafts due years ago today for tomorrow is a problem?
The gist of what you wrote above is that the IAF has chosen
the half-baked overdue project expected to reach 2/3 baked
over the one third baked ongoing hope er, sorry project
for the same two-third baked result as more credible?

​

You stupidly believe that the LCA is being forced down on the IAF.

That kind of free selection above must have been a joy to run?
And I suppose you don't get why the Rafale Modi-forced selection
filled their hearts with glee either?

Give it sometime, once info comes out, you will be forced to chew on your JF-17 cud forever.

LOL S.I.T. daydreams again! just wait, you'll see, we will ...

By the time LCA is where you want it, Thunder will have retired!
That's the difference maybe that Pakistan knows jets do not last
forever no matter how well you treat them.

Good luck with those high hopes, Tay.