NATO Forces Kill 13 Pak FC's out of a total of 27!

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

According to the U.S. official, two U.S. Air Force F-15E aircraft bombed a suspected militant location inside Pakistan when fighters fled there after conducting an ambush on the Afghan side of the border.

According to the U.S. account of events, U.S. and Pakistani military officials tracked the militants as they fled across the border and the location was verified by a U.S. drone flying overhead as well as the Pakistanis.

The U.S. military then sent the warplanes which dropped four bombs on the location inside Pakistan. The planes used three 500-pound bombs and a single laser-guided bomb. The official said the mission was permitted under the rules of engagement which allow "hot pursuit" across the border of suspected militants when locations were verified.

Pakistan fury over U.S. 'hot pursuit' attack - CNN.com

The militants were tracked by both sides, and locations verified by both, so what happened ?

Was this an FC patrol that happened to come across the same area the militants were fleeing into, and got targeted by NATO perhaps?

 

[blain2]

We protest strongly, which we have, and wait to see what the NATO response and explanation will be. We then wait to see what future actions undertaken n the part of NATO will be, and if this will be repeated.

The key is to make a big fuss about it and ensure that the Pakistani public gets riled up about it.

What do you think will happen to public sentiment if this happens again? Nothing like unity in the face of adversity, especially if the adversary is perceived to be America, who not many Pakistanis trust or care for currently anyway.

Excellent point! The way is to get the public massively pissed. The solution is not a military response. Since this government has the public's mandate, lets see them show some guts and make the Americans feel some heat. They cannot continue to get away with this bull ****.

 

[muse]

Agnostic

I'm perplexed, why such extra ordinary lengths to absolve the US and Nato? You realize and we all do, that this cannot be some mistake - calling the airstike takes forward observers to pass the coordinates, right? and ofcourse if the decision is taken, the coordinates are checked, senior commanders are involved and apprised.

Yes, ofcourse they should be explanation, but now over 24 hrs have passed, what have we heard from Bagram or US CENTCOM?? And What does that mean?

Yes, I agree that public senbtiment will be against US, ought it not be? They are playing a duplitious game, the level of malevalonce they harbor towards Pakistan is not realized by many, but it is true. Discount what I say if you like but I have knowledge of their hatred towards Pakistan, and yes I too was suprised by it.

Yes, taliban are bad and MMA too, but US forces are animated by their own millenarianism, their own version of the poisoned church -- and we must reconsider the notion that the US is a friend, it is not.

You seem to want to give the US and Nato an out, but do no trealize they are not looking for a out, they are deliberate, they mean what they say and what they do and to get respect from such one has to mean what one says.


The weaker one comes across to them, they more they will push, but if one pushes back, it gives them pause to reconsider. Afterall, what is the problem here, if it is not US policy what then is it??

 

[blain2]

Muse,

Valid points!

What do you propose Pakistan should do at this point in time?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agnostic

I'm perplexed, why such extra ordinary lengths to absolve the US and Nato? You realize and we all do, that this cannot be some mistake - calling the airstike takes forward observers to pass the coordinates, right? and ofcourse if the decision is taken, the coordinates are checked, senior commanders are involved and apprised.

Yes, ofcourse they should be explanation, but now over 24 hrs have passed, what have we heard from Bagram or US CENTCOM?? And What does that mean?

Yes, I agree that public senbtiment will be against US, ought it not be? They are playing a duplitious game, the level of malevalonce they harbor towards Pakistan is not realized by many, but it is true. Discount what I say if you like but I have knowledge of their hatred towards Pakistan, and yes I too was suprised by it.

Yes, taliban are bad and MMA too, but US forces are animated by their own millenarianism, their own version of the poisoned church -- and we must reconsider the notion that the US is a friend, it is not.

You seem to want to give the US and Nato an out, but do no trealize they are not looking for a out, they are deliberate, they mean what they say and what they do and to get respect from such one has to mean what one says.


The weaker one comes across to them, they more they will push, but if one pushes back, it gives them pause to reconsider. Afterall, what is the problem here, if it is not US policy what then is it??

I don't want to give them an out Muse, I want to ensure that there is no loophole left for them to wiggle out of.

How many time can this happen and the same excuses (assuming the excuses and distortions are on their way) be trotted out to explain away blatant aggression?

That is all I want - patience so that guilt or innocence is proven beyond doubt.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

One must also think, would Pakistan under Musharraf had issued such a strongly worded denunciation of the attack?

What gives this government the power to publicly denounce is the fact that they have the people of Pakistan behind them, and they know that this weakens the position of the US within Pakistan - whether you believe that influence is exercised through Musharraf or the political parties.

 

[muse]

Blain

For starters, no more supplies or at least we ration them - if they have coordinates for our positions it seems to me we ought not neglect theirs, fixed wing aircraft within 50 km of pakistani territory will be met by CAP with standing orders to engage and shoot down if our territory is crossed.

And I would declare these publically, not just for citizens of Pakistan but the world - these are our red lines.

And I would want a public adress about US policy objectives in Afghanistan - why are they still there - don't be too suprised if they make it there permanent home and then what will be the implications for Pakistan??

 

[Flintlock]

Irrespective of whether this was design or error, the US will suffer the consequences by alienating the PA and public.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And I would want a public adress about US policy objectives in Afghanistan - why are they still there - don't be too suprised if they make it there permanent home and then what will be the implications for Pakistan??

Going by discussion on another forum over statements and analysis from the US military establishment, at current force levels they are looking at a minimum of two decades of involvement in Afghanistan.

In fact that analysis was something I based my objections to fighting the taliban the way NATO wants us to fight them on.

A two decade conflict might be sustainable for the US, but can you imagine the impact of violence even half as bad as last year would have on Pakistan over two decades?

I am not sure we will see a change in US policy unless the US withdraws from Iraq and actually puts enough resources into Afghanistan to finish the job, and finish it properly. Either that or withdraw from Afghanistan.

This "neither here nor there" policy is going nowhere - not in terms of pacifying the Taliban, not in terms of reducing the drug trade and not in terms of development.

 

[Flintlock]

US confirms missile strike killed Pakistani troops


The United States military has confirmed that it carried out a missile strike on Pakistan soil near the Afghan border that killed 11 Pakistani soldiers.

Our South Asia correspondent Peter Lloyd, says it appears the Pakistani troops died during an operation, which was meant to be targeting Taliban militants.

The US was responding to an earlier incident in which insurgents launched an attack into Afghanistan.

Pakistan's military has condemned the strike as an unprovoked and cowardly act.

The strongly-worded statement says the killings hit at the very basis of cooperation in the war against terror, adding that the army has launched a strong protest.

The incident is said to have occurred at a border post in the Mohmmand Tribal area in northwestern Pakistan.

Officials say the Pakistani post was hit during an exchange of fire between Taliban militants and troops in Afghanistan's neighbouring Kunar Province.

US confirms missile strike killed Pakistani troops

 

[mujahideen]

Some one has to condemm this act of aggression. Either the PM or the President or even a top General must make it official that any more incidents like this will result in a declaration of war. Now as far as this act of violence is concerned we should overlook our policy relating to this war and change must come.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Some one has to condemm this act of aggression. Either the PM or the President or even a top General must make it official that any more incidents like this will result in a declaration of war. Now as far as this act of violence is concerned we should overlook our policy relating to this war and change must come.

Mujahideen, it has been strongly condemned. Again, the issue is to make sure that NATO realizes that such acts will only alienate them and reduce support fro their mission.

Do you realize how much the Taliban are going to reap propaganda wise from this?

We do not want confrontation, we want respect and we get respect when the entire country gets behind an issue, and we can accomplish that without resorting to military action or breaking off ties.

Will we adopt some of Muse suggestions? Probably not this time around, but if it happens again public pressure is goign to build, and the GoP's denials will only go so far before they have to make some public statements along the lines of what Muse suggested, but also not break the alliance with NATO or our support for their efforts.

Pakistan's military has condemned the strike as an unprovoked and cowardly act.

The strongly-worded statement says the killings hit at the very basis of cooperation in the war against terror, adding that the army has launched a strong protest.

 

[khanz]

what the hell is the PAF doing ?

pak military really needs to get off it's @ss and retaliate if they're attacked whether by NATO or not.They should give the order for any aircraft in pak airspace without permission should be intercepted or shot down immediately.

 

[Flintlock]

Hows this argument:

If the Pakistani Army publicly denounces this as an "act of aggression", it will feed public anger and win the taliban support.

OTOH, if Pakistan works in behind the scenes and gets USA to apologize publicly, it will be much better for both Pakistan and WOT.

 

[muse]

Agnostic

Notice the statement and the tone - "it appears pakistani soldiers.." if these are friends, who needs enemies.

As I have said here before, they are playing duplitious game - regardless of who likes me saying it or does not - and when you interacy with US mil, it will become clear to you the depth of malevolence it feels for Pakistan - across the board, I mean at officer, maj and above level; it was suprising to me, but like I said, once you get a feel for the kind of ideas that animate it's rank and file, you will understand.

About US policy, can you figure out what it is?? Why are they still in Afghanistan?? till the last talib is dead, till the last pashtun is dead? what do they want there?? And why is any of it in Pakistan's interest??