NATO Attacks Pakistani Check-post

[Abu Basit]

Odd how little Pakistanis care about their sovereignty when it comes to Afghan taliban fighters hiding behind Mama Pakistan's skirts. This skewed and selective sense of sovereign dignity is something that America has long since quit giving a ratz azz about.

Thanks.

hey enemy,

what our respected brother Irfan Baloch said was more like a letter from a Royal Subject to the Queen. The viewpoint given by him reflects the minority view belonging to the ruling/elite class which is in the pockets of America because they serve them with $$$$$ (aid).

The reality is that Majority- the masses, take America as an enemy. We don't have any good words for you and without any doubt, you (America) is the biggest-filthiest terrorist state the history of mankind has ever seen. Your history is full of murder of innocent people and this barbaric act is continuing to date without any end.

Please get out of our region and stop aiding our sold out rulers.

This is more like a Pakistani view...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

he was giving a sober and pragmatic view, one that is actually useful and satisfies both sides. . .


by the way, since we are sometimes accused of harbouring american enemies -- i was wondering when America/NATO will stop allowing indian intelligence and pro northern alliance warlords from promoting sabotage, espionage and terrorist activity in our north and southwest.....will you hand over Bramdagh Bugti to us?

NATO has control over Kabul at least; that's where he may be hiding. Will you hand this terrorist over as he has the blood of civilians and soldiers on his hands?


as i said earlier, partnership & trust are a 2-way thing. Not 1-way, but 2-way.




General Xeric -- mujhe maaf karo saar

 

[Chogy]

Please get out of our region and stop aiding our sold out rulers.

Is it our fault your rulers are corrupt to the bone, and none of the $$ seems to make it to those who need it? Why isn't the hostility aimed at them? Or the terrorists that exist on your soil?

Getting back to the original incident - Apparently, saying things like "rounds IN the helicopter" and "firing ACROSS the border" are simply dismissed as lies. What point is there in debating or analyzing something if there are automatic assumptions like this?

People don't understand how difficult it is to know exactly where a confused and convoluted border lies, even with GPS. A straight line is easy. One that ripples and flows requires tens of thousands of points to be programmed into a database. There is no magic "You are in Pakistani airspace" warning light.

Blue on blue fire sucks... it shouldn't be turned into more than what it is. If the U.S. wants to light up a bunch of Pakistani outposts, it will be very obvious when it happens.

 

[Xeric]

Let's forget the border incursion for a while.

i have not been inside an Apache, but what i say in that video (Crazyhorse 1/8) where an Apache of yours screwed Iraqi civilians, i really doubt that with the kind of "eyes" an Apache pilot have, it's nearly impossible to miss that those being targeted were uniformed soldiers and not turban bearers!

Edit: Here's the vid, see for yourself how clearly an Apache can 'see'
File:CollateralMurder.ogv - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Juice]

Let's forget the border incursion for a while.

i have not been inside an Apache, but what i say in that video (Crazyhorse 1/8) where an Apache of yours screwed Iraqi civilians, i really doubt that with the kind of "eyes" an Apache pilot have, it's nearly impossible to miss that those being targeted were uniformed soldiers and not turban bearers!

Edit: Here's the vid, see for yourself how clearly an Apache can 'see'
File:CollateralMurder.ogv - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Watch that video closely. I understand everyone carries AK's, but some of those boys had RPG's...for what? Home defense against robbers? And if you can't recognize the profile of an RPG...that's why you're not a pilot. The Journalist took thier chances when they wanted to get a scoop tapeing an attack...but I do think the pilots should have thought twice about firing on the van as it was picking up clearly wounded.

 

[Xeric]

Watch that video closely. I understand everyone carries AK's, but some of those boys had RPG's...for what? Home defense against robbers? And if you can't recognize the profile of an RPG...that's why you're not a pilot.

Before jumping the gun had you used any part of your brain you would have known that the aim of posting the video was NOT to discuss the video or the killings thereof, BUT to show members and your likes (who like to have blinds infront of their eyes while shooting at people) that how (clearly) an Apache Pilot can SEE outside the cockpit and so the question; didnt they know that they were firing at uniformed Pakistani soldiers manning an establish check post at Pak-Afg border? Yeah, i know you would again jump the gun and say that they were just responding to the fire by the Pakistani soldiers but you forgot that it was the Apache that crossed the red line by entering into Pakistani air space, and for fcuks sake, bullets dont bring down Apaches, you guys could have hold your horses when it was clear that those firing at you were soldiers, while keeping view the already delicate situation between the US and Pakistan after the OBL incident, and then you claim to be a world class military..tsk..tsk!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

were the families in this incident compensated? Was apology given to Pakistanis?

Pakistan condemns US over raid - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English


patience is wearing thin; and if such things keep occuring, then the whole dynamic, approach to the war, and threat-assesments will change from our side


these actions are actually emboldening the miscreants/extremists we are fighting

 

[Juice]

Sorry Xeric. I do see your point

 

[somebozo]

Why do US has god given permission to go around and kill people? Its the real terrorist IMHO.

 

[Awesome]

Is it our fault your rulers are corrupt to the bone, and none of the $$ seems to make it to those who need it? Why isn't the hostility aimed at them? Or the terrorists that exist on your soil?

Wow.

Right, it wouldn't be your fault if you left children alone with a known sex offender or perhaps paid for his motel rent. Why isn't the hostility aimed at them? It freakin is! Wake up man, you're being booed because you're that person who is aiding and abetting that child rapist and saying HEY its not ME, its the effing RAPIST!

Wow.

I mean how desperate could you be to help us, when you about us in congress, always threaten to cut our aid but somehow manage to increase it. Go away man. Get lost America. We don't want to play.

Trust me, all the firepower in the world won't help you once the Pakistani nation develops the courage and the unity to send you home packing with just the right amount of case red bums. Get lost, already. Keep your money. How much clearer can we get!

 

[VelocuR]

Turkey is part of nato mission in Afghanistan--they are mostly busy with non combat activities.

Brotherhood in international relations dont exist. Anybody who claims brotherhoos or friends forever, they are fooling themslves.

Ahmad,

Brother, I agree with you! First of all, I apologize whatever happened in Afghanistan, it is hurt to see many innocent people died including women and children, i respect you as Afghan. Also, I met Afghans they are nice people. I support Afghanistan's right, Soviet Union make us more complex in situation.

I repeatly told there is no things of kind brotherhood relationship. For example, between Turkey and Pakistan is approximately 4000 km distances, same as US, Saudi Arabia, Europe, Middle East. That's very short term interests. Strange, Turkey is quiet to avoid criticize NATO's mischievious actions against Pakistan.

For Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, India and neighbors, they are long term whether to choose friend or enemy because we live permenently in neighborhood. I suggest we should all cooperate as similar to US/Canada

Glad you are still here, please ignore some haters or senseless trollers.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

under Reagan, we had a better understanding of things; saw eye to eye

things used to be a lot more fun!

 

[FaujHistorian]

under Reagan, we had a better understanding of things; ..

Republicans (and yes including GWB) work better with Pakistan (most of the time).

Dems on the other hand have difficulty (due to their own leftie prejudices) communicating with Pakistan.

Prez Obama could have easily worked this out with Kiyani even for the UBL raid. But apparently he didn't.

Ex-ISI head Gen Haq said it correctly in France that US should have remembered that "not a single" AQ raid went badly that was conducted jointly by US and Pak.

As Paks we should keep in mind that Republicans will mostly give us good deal, while dems won't.

Exceptions off course are always there.

peace.

p.s. you correctly reference Reagan's positive deal with Pak. In the same time we must remember that a democratic prez Carter wasn't offering Pak more than few peanuts.

 

[unicorn]

Wow.

Right, it wouldn't be your fault if you left children alone with a known sex offender or perhaps paid for his motel rent. Why isn't the hostility aimed at them? It freakin is! Wake up man, you're being booed because you're that person who is aiding and abetting that child rapist and saying HEY its not ME, its the effing RAPIST!

Wow.

I mean how desperate could you be to help us, when you about us in congress, always threaten to cut our aid but somehow manage to increase it. Go away man. Get lost America. We don't want to play.

Trust me, all the firepower in the world won't help you once the Pakistani nation develops the courage and the unity to send you home packing with just the right amount of case red bums. Get lost, already. Keep your money. How much clearer can we get!

Asim Bhai
I still remember this presidential debate in which a question is asked to Obama about Pakistans soverignity. Everything becomes crystal clear as he said that we will expand our non military aid to Pakistan so that they have more at stake working with us and we will use this aid to force them to go after militants and he was clearly showing the signs that he has not made his mind to allow Pakistan to make peace treaties.Watch the interesting reply from senator McCain.When I was watching that debate back then I knew that if Obama was elected he will eventually make that mistake that will eventually allow the people of Pakistan to rise against them and no wonder that is exactly happening today.
watch................................1:07:00

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sorry Xeric. I do see your point

this topic has been discussed to death already, ignoring the trolls, suffice to say that if mode of communication can be improved (which doesn’t involve firing at each other) then it will help in our joint on going war against the common enemies of Pakistan, Afghanistan & America.
Americans do have the advantage of the technology which would enable them to distinguish between soldiers and Taliban and established and marked check posts with Pakistani flags on them, hardly any room or excuse to fire in confusion.

re firing at encroaching copters to warn and their subsequent response to (defend themselves) any argument and counter argument would have no end except to agree that such incidents should be avoided as much as can. Granted the border is ambiguous, unmarked and all that but better communication, confidence and trust among the two “allied” forces will reduce the likelihood of such incidents. My main concern is not to give Taliban the satisfaction of seeing their two mortal enemies confronting each other.

In view of the “American Kill teams” in Iraq and Afghanistan that have murdered civilians for the sake of thrill there is a slight chance their flying comrades in Afghanistan might share that mentality and given the complicated relationship between US and America and media reporting, they would be less pragmatic than their commanding officer and teach Pakistanis a lesson these can be isolated incidents or deliberate and with guidance from the top who knows but are without doubt counter productive. If NATO forces think that by such acts they will force / convince Pakistan to launch operations in north Waziristan then it’s a very bad way of doing things and might result in events which might get out of hands of NATO altogether.