Nation building activities of the Pakistani Army

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

Appreciate the good works of army.
But still why do they have to control cement, steel mills and the like?

Military Inc.

 

[Bane Blade]

even if we ignore all this, i still dont think if there is anything wrong with army owning such organistaions. all the investment they are making is only goin to our economy

I personally feel that it is wrong in many ways and I am sure that it would have taken tax payer money to build atleast once so it is in alot of ways unfair.

 

[third eye]

I personally feel that it is wrong in many ways and I am sure that it would have taken tax payer money to build atleast once so it is in alot of ways unfair.

Evidently, not much of ' nation building' is visible from what I have just read. It is more of the PA looking after its own self with a corpus of funds made available by the tax payer. That the nation gets "built" in the bargain is co incidental.

Wonder if similar options are available to other Govt organizations - with the same manner of funds to exploit

 

[Bane Blade]

Evidently, not much of ' nation building' is visible from what I have just read. It is more of the PA looking after its own self with a corpus of funds made available by the tax payer. That the nation gets "built" in the bargain is co incidental.

Wonder if similar options are available to other Govt organizations - with the same manner of funds to exploit

Well they have worked for the public in ways of highways and the Fauji Foundation isn't that bad but I feel that despite all the management it isn't their duty to do this they could teach and scrutinise but not run the setup.

As for all government agencies having a fair chance I don't actually think so.

 

[third eye]

Well they have worked for the public in ways of highways and the Fauji Foundation isn't that bad but I feel that despite all the management it isn't their duty to do this they could teach and scrutinise but not run the setup.

As for all government agencies having a fair chance I don't actually think so.

Constructing highways would have qualified as ' nation building' if it was done either free or at cost price. If the Fauji Foundation took / charged a margin then how are they any diff from any other civil construction firm ?

The only diff being that this one is ' for the fauji's by the fauji's'. They possibly use their Mil clout to get what they want & at their own terms too thus stifling competition.


You are correct when you say the portion highlighted above.

 

[Xeric]

Military Inc.

Evidently, not much of ' nation building' is visible from what I have just read. It is more of the PA looking after its own self with a corpus of funds made available by the tax payer. That the nation gets "built" in the bargain is co incidental.

Wonder if similar options are available to other Govt organizations - with the same manner of funds to exploit

Burn you both, while let the military enjoy

 

[Bane Blade]

Constructing highways would have qualified as ' nation building' if it was done either free or at cost price. If the Fauji Foundation took / charged a margin then how are they any diff from any other civil construction firm ?

That is pretty much my point as well but alot of Pakistanis disagree having said that I would aslo have to admit they are partly right because they have high standards and maintain a good work ethic.

enigma947 sir I expected better than your last.

 

[Xeric]

It is more of the PA looking after its own self with a corpus of funds made available by the tax payer.

Care to elaborate how funds are available by the tax payer?

And would you also like to use the brains that you have that where all this money that is earned as profit ultimately goes?

Wonder if similar options are available to other Govt organizations - with the same manner of funds to exploit

Exploit???

Constructing highways would have qualified as ' nation building' if it was done either free or at cost price. If the Fauji Foundation took / charged a margin then how are they any diff from any other civil construction firm ?

They are commercial organization and they charge the margin, is there a problem with that, does your commercial entities work free for the indian govt?

The only diff being that this one is ' for the fauji's by the fauji's'. They possibly use their Mil clout to get what they want & at their own terms too thus stifling competition.

Yes you got it right now, they are for the fauji and by the fauji, PRIMARILY, but they also work separately, and sorry sir, they don't use their military clout.
They compete and get what they deserve.

And when you said "possibly" , you dont know a damn, try to confirm it first and stop trolling!!

 

[Bane Blade]

Care to elaborate how funds are available by the tax payer?

Well they can't exactly pay for the initial setup without any support from tax payer money all it means is that they must have taken taxpayer money at some point.

 

[Xeric]

And then you go on and on about the equality and fairness.......

Lolzz.. hey BB bro, listen, once i was reading about the pro and cons of having large armies, in that the writer gave point wise reasoning over the both side(mind it he was not favoring either), he first gave the back draws of large armies and then when while writing down in the favor of large armies he said, if a country had 1 million army it is there by providing jobs to 1 million nationals, ofcourse if these 1 million are not absorbed into the military where would they go, go to the civil sector, mean there by putting strain over them.

So dear, military men retire at younger age, so they had to be absorbed in the civil sector after wards (this happens everywhere), so if these projects are absorbing the ex-servicemen, indirectly what to do you think they are doing-providing jobs i guess?

As for your concern equality and fairness, it is always there, try to visit any of these organizations, you'll not find the more than a handful of ex-servicemen there.

try to visit some Askaribanks branch nearest to you, tell me if you found any ex-servicemen, go to Askari travel, see if you find any ex-servicemen.

The reason, now a days, most of them are absorbed elsewhere, you would definitely find many of them working around you, but still these organizations carry on because they can't just lay off, thus they have a hand in nation building and reducing job lapses.

Take some time out and wonder what if all these organization get dissolved today...ooooo..scary nah!!

 

[Xeric]

Well they can't exactly pay for the initial setup without any support from tax payer money all it means is that they must have taken taxpayer money at some point.

Now i was expecting that question and i am glad you did...i have a long story to tell on this..just give me a moment, i'll be right back

Ok here you go:
Before i proceed would like to take a question from me? What would you do if you want to start a business?

Consider that you have all the technical expertise, manpower would be readily available, keeping in mind the unemployment rate, and you are also ready to work two jobs a day ?

Hmm.. let me answer this, you will go to the bank take a huge loan, start your business, and as you can work hard, with zeal and determination and also as you are an anti-haram eater you prosper like hell, start earning alot of profit and then pays back the loan, and then you live happily ever after...

This is what Army usually do.

Second, apart from this love story and the happy ending, we also do the following:

i can tell you about a cantonment(no names ofcourse). There was a park sorta thing nearing that cantt, you may also call it some kinda stadium as it was huge, it was ruined, no water, no jogging track, no mosque, no greenery, no jholas for kids, all electric wiring stolen by our worthy nation and all bulbs either broken or stolen, no security, no car park for a park which can accommodate hundreds.

No one used to go there, no one was suffering, as our nation is not healthy-life cautious and no one like to jog and do some physical thing in spare time.

But there was a problem, as that park was very near to the cantt no other park or jogging track was made inside the cantt, this was done by the govt to save resources and money (and i think it was a guud step-why to waste money on something which can be utilized mutually).

Every cantt has a place or two where soldiers go to carry out various activities, like, friendly matches, PT tests, work out etc etc. but this cantt was not having it as this park kinda thing was near and we had to make use of that place.

Fortunately the army never complain, we were happy with that park and used to do our stuff there.

We would get it cleaned before we had to conduct the PT tests, take our tamboo kannats when we used have a cricket or football match, make use of our own personal water coolers to provide water to the players etc etc, after these events the park used to remain clean for some days before it again got bad, because it was not Army's responsibility, as that park came under the jurisdiction of the civilian district govt no one used to care.

Anywaz, this kept on happening and we were happy, when one day while our PT tests were being conducted, and the park was shined and polished by the Army, the corps commander of that area and the civil servant responsible for that park met there, the civil servant was quite impressed with what the Army has done to the park in one day and offered the corps commander to take responsibility of the park, he said that the Army can maintain the park and rebuild it, if it wants to and can generate income if it wishes, but that park should also be accessible to the civilians, he said.

This was agreed upon, and a grand refurbishment process was started by the Army.

First it took weeks and 3 bucket loaders to get all the jungle grass and kikar trees removed. It costed money and the money was given by the Army, the corps i mean (now dont ask where that money came from, we all officers and men give a fixed deduction to the Army at our will, and mind it the budget of defence never comes direct to the Army, nor it goes to the generals, it's like you ask the finance and defence ministry to provide you with 1 million G3 bullets and it gets it for you, so in short the money cant be accessed directly, in case some one was thinking that the defence budget is being played with by the officers).

Our jawans got the damn place cleaned, they wiped every inch and painted every where.

Now came the provision of electricity, WAPDA was contacted, and you know how they work, they were kicked and were made to replace the wiring and other stuff, though the money to purchase new wire and bulbs and tube lights was provided by the Army, WAPDA only provided us the technical manpower which they are supposed to!

Now the water, the water department said that as this park is quite away from the mainline therefore provision of water facility was never planned for the park, it was constructed as a "waterless park"-interesting. The Army thought that they are lieing, so the high ups were contacted, legally, they were written official letters to find out the truth, and we were replied with the actual state of planning, in writing, that provision of water to the park was never in the master plan of the city.

OK, no problemo, the Army asked if it could pay for the pipeline from the main line to the park, could the department give us the supply, ofourse we will pay for the water bill!

Fortunately the reply was yes, then again, pipeline was purchased by the Army and planted underground with the help of its own men, they water thus reached the park and the Army started paying the water charges.

Alot of plants were planted, new grass, alot of greenery etc etc just because of the water supply.

Nestle was contacted to sponsor a tuck shop inside the park, which they agreed to because they park was at the prime location, another company was contacted to provide us the dustbins, with their logo on them, which they did, Ufone was requested to place new gates, with their "ufone tum he tu ho" stuff on them...

New jogging track was made, a security check post was made, the car park was re-established, tokens were made, 'mali' were hired who looked after the green stuff, a chowkidar was hired who used to stay in the park at night etc etc.

A new park was born, Army restricted the entry into the park for members, but wait, to become a member you only have to pay Rs 10 to purchase a card with your photo on it, for security purpose only, but the entry was free.

Within weeks the same park that dogs defecated in became a prime location for picnics, outings and physical activity (not that one you naughty boy ), people use to jog, sit, eat and enjoy there till late night-thanks to the lighting arrangements.

Now Army had to get back the money which it had spent, so from day one when the park was inaugurated, the Army charged for the car parking. Have a look at the astonishing rate list:

Cycle -50 paisa.
Bike -Rs 1.
Care -Rs 2.

Who the hell parks your car for Rs 2 now a days!!

Another incentive that was given was if you want a token for 6 months parking it costed you only Rs 200, a saving of Rs 160 for you, so people were more than happy and willing to buy the car park tokens at one time.

Then there was a demand that a mosque should also be constructed, so it was made there by the Army, a place for ablution was also made, a changing place for ladies was later made, drinking water was made available so that people after running can take water.

Now the most important thing ,this all was not done at one time, it took a year to do this due to the lack of funds with the corps, we never wanted to take loan for such a petty thing so the income that was generated from the Car Park thing was re-used for renovation and additions.

Now, guess what monthly income from that park today amounts to Rs 50,000/- only from the car parking fee and new member joinings (RS 10 only, remember?)

From this the Army pays the 'malis', the watchman, the electricity bill and water charges, off an on renovations and stuff. And yes it has its audit on 6 monthly basis, thanks to the Army, and the taxes are paid as the money comes through the banks.

Now this didnt happen recently it is a story that is now more than a decade old. Do the math how much money had been made from that place.

Now most of you would be worried that look the officers enjoy and the men are asked to do work, so for them the Army do the following:

The income that is generated from the park is not 'eaten' but utilized to provide free books to their children, free school uniforms for them, Meena bazars for the ladies on Eids, free Ramazan packages for the troops, they may include some dates, swaiyans, sugar etc, better menu for food of troops though it is already free for them (not for officers ), but there is no harm if you provide them with tea twice a day instead of once only. Or if they get 3 samosas instead of 2.

Although only one unit had taken part in the renovation process but many others enjoy, that's what Army is.

This could have been done by that civil servant also, he is also an 19 grade officer of this country, but he lacked the will. We dont lack it.

Moreover do you think it was so easy for the Army to do all this? Just click and done, no sir officers had to spend nights there, they had to pursuit the Ufone walas, the Nestle people, write them letters, meet them, show them the place, give them the measurements, the WAPDA walas never used to be on time we had to collect them at our own, some time on my car and sometime on the bike of that lieutenant! And we were not paid extra we dont want to be!!

We had to sit in the offices till night, making phone calls, drafting letters, making payments, planning the design, googling new type of flowers that should be planted, looking for new designs of construction and important of all WE HAD TO DO THIS AFTER THE OFFICE HOURS at the expense of our OWN time!!!

i know officers who have been visiting the XENs and GMs of companies at their own conveyance. That's why i said in the very start, you had the zeal and determination and you were ready to do TWO JOBS A DAY (one your primary and second this park making thing). Officers had to study for their courses and do other stuff in addition to the office work and this park work.

They (who made the park) have sacrificed and we now enjoy that park! Not only we but the entire city!!

Now the main aim behind this entire story, calculate the amount of money that had been saved due to the park, now that is the money which Army utilizes for other stuff that you questioned,

This is only one thing, next time i'll narrate you other eye openers, till then digest this one

 

[Bane Blade]

Take some time out and wonder what if all these organization get dissolved today...ooooo..scary nah!!

They shouldn't be dissolved because there work ethic is better no strikes or crazy unions breaking things or blocking roads but lets here your vew on how they started I am waiting.

 

[ajpirzada]

I personally feel that it is wrong in many ways and I am sure that it would have taken tax payer money to build atleast once so it is in alot of ways unfair.

in economics there is term called 'vertical integration'. eg of this is that a firm making tanks should acquire steel mill (which is where the raw material is comin from) and another eg might be that a counstruction company should acquire cement factory. this increases the efficiency and also profitability. now i guess this is wat our army has done. they have almost acquired everything they need. they have got a steel mill to provide raw material for HIT at relatively cheaper rates. HIT in return must be sellin their products to army at a cheaper rate. askari bank might be providing loans to army at lower interest rates. same goes for cement factory and others.
although they built all this from tax money, but now they are only saving tax payers money by being more efficient.

 

[rubyjackass]

in economics there is term called 'vertical integration'. eg of this is that a firm making tanks should acquire steel mill (which is where the raw material is comin from) and another eg might be that a counstruction company should acquire cement factory. this increases the efficiency and also profitability. now i guess this is wat our army has done. they have almost acquired everything they need. they have got a steel mill to provide raw material for HIT at relatively cheaper rates. HIT in return must be sellin their products to army at a cheaper rate. askari bank might be providing loans to army at lower interest rates. same goes for cement factory and others.
although they built all this from tax money, but now they are only saving tax payers money by being more efficient.

Your logic theorizes that NASA should have been mining coal to make steel it needs.

Too much vertical integration will lead to inefficient handling of resources and increase in variable costs and delay costs for a firm. Also note that the integration here is across service and industrial sectors.

 

[Xeric]

Your logic theorizes that NASA should have been mining coal to make steel it needs.

Too much vertical integration will lead to inefficient handling of resources and increase in variable costs and delay costs for a firm. Also note that the integration here is across service and industrial sectors.

Come on jack, dont disagree just for the sake of it.
Chill

in economics there is term called 'vertical integration'. eg of this is that a firm making tanks should acquire steel mill (which is where the raw material is comin from) and another eg might be that a counstruction company should acquire cement factory. this increases the efficiency and also profitability. now i guess this is wat our army has done. they have almost acquired everything they need. they have got a steel mill to provide raw material for HIT at relatively cheaper rates. HIT in return must be sellin their products to army at a cheaper rate. askari bank might be providing loans to army at lower interest rates. same goes for cement factory and others.
although they built all this from tax money, but now they are only saving tax payers money by being more efficient.

Pirzada is right, i quote you an example.

When i was going for one of my foreign course and i had to purchase tickets from a travel agent, i preferred to chose the Army Welfare Trust's Askari Travel Agent in Islamabad (though i had the option to go to any travel agent is Pakistan). As my ticket was to be purchased from the defence budget, so the Army's money will stay with the Army like this.