Naswar Corner

[Armstrong]

First you say the history with the most evidence is most credible then you use personal correspondence(which is not evidence), if you were to ask an 'octagaraian' hindu from India, they will say that's all BS and nothing of that sort happened.

Not saying your wrong though, just never seen Pakistanis defend this viewpoint against the knowledgable historians on here. BTW who are the 'established historians' of British India who accept pirpur report, I must ask?

Correspondences with people who were there & then when these historical events were happening is 'historical evidence' indeed or so most of the books on History I have read seem to think. Even Ms.Jalal & Akbar Ahmed with their books on Quaid make do with correspondences with people who were in the midst of things & draw their conclusions from that.

Which is not to say that 'historical documents' are worthless - No ! I've gone through 2 volumes of Zaidi's documentation of the Muslim League's different speeches, pamphlets, issues etc. & I'd look forward to go through the remaining volumes in addition to others. But 'historical documents' are understood in a 'historical context' & that is where you need 'human input'. At other times a lack of 'documentary evidence' is supplemented by these same 'correspondences' to understand events as they unfolded & to fill the gaps in recorded history that exist. It is this same 'human input' which forms the bulk of 'historical narratives' out there & the exact reason why these are 'narratives' or 'opinions' & not 'gospel' & are debunked & reaffirmed in a continuous cycle each generation.

When I talked about 'octagenarians' I wasn't referring to the 90 something cobbler down the street or some religiously charged fanatical old guy; I was referring to people who were at a time part of the Indian National Congress as their supporters & political workers & some of them switched to the Muslim League whereas others left politics altogether & yet a few remained die hard Congressmen till the end. I was referring to the civil servants & the army men who had served the British Realm at that time & were there when '48 happened & were there when the massacres were taking place during the migrations. I was referring to the ones who immigrated from Bihar & Jallandar & experienced the discrimination during the Congress Ministries era.

In all honesty all the people I've talked to might be pathological liars & yet all the books written for & or against the Partition & the creation of Pakistan make do with the same 'liars' & expound the hypothesis they came up with by taking the same disjointed 'facts' out of the same cauldron as others.

P.S There aren't any established historians of the Indian Subcontinent that I know of but yes a lot of people have written on it & indeed some of them do have a degree in History to back their claims up with. Perhaps you should go through Pyarelal's book on Gandhi or even Azad's own book on India & Indian Muslims. Perhaps you should read Ahmed Hassan Dani, G.Allana, Akbar Ahmed, Durrani, Zaidi, Bolitho & others who were there when all of this was happening.

Read both sides...both narratives ! Read as much as you can & then weigh things up as being 'substantiated or otherwise' ! But read those who were 'there', I can't stress that enough !

@Armstrong @Zarvin, yaro dono tu tu mein mein khattam karro. In the Pakistan I envision, one of your shall be my Defence Secretary and the other Secretary of State.

I shall also have a special division to suppress all religious freedoms, under the watchful eye of Zarvan. I'll keep him high on Halwa juice!

@Zarvin should be the Minister for Religious Affairs !

And Zarvan should be the President of the State Bank of Pakistan ! *usury, interest - *

I'm gonna be the Chief of Army Staff !

 

[Redbull]

Correspondences with people who were there & then when these historical events were happening is 'historical evidence' indeed or so most of the books on History I have read seem to think. Even Ms.Jalal & Akbar Ahmed with their books on Quaid make do with correspondences with people who were in the midst of things & draw their conclusions from that.

Which is not to say that 'historical documents' are worthless - No ! I've gone through 2 volumes of Zaidi's documentation of the Muslim League's different speeches, pamphlets, issues etc. & I'd look forward to go through the remaining volumes in addition to others. But 'historical documents' are understood in a 'historical context' & that is where you need 'human input'. At other times a lack of 'documentary evidence' is supplemented by these same 'correspondences' to understand events as they unfolded & to fill the gaps in recorded history that exist. It is this same 'human input' which forms the bulk of 'historical narratives' out there & the exact reason why these are 'narratives' or 'opinions' & not 'gospel' & are debunked & reaffirmed in a continuous cycle each generation.

When I talked about 'octagenarians' I wasn't referring to the 90 something cobbler down the street or some religiously charged fanatical old guy; I was referring to people who were at a time part of the Indian National Congress as their supporters & political workers & some of them switched to the Muslim League whereas others left politics altogether & yet a few remained die hard Congressmen till the end. I was referring to the civil servants & the army men who had served the British Realm at that time & were there when '48 happened & were there when the massacres were taking place during the migrations. I was referring to the ones who immigrated from Bihar & Jallandar & experienced the discrimination during the Congress Ministries era.

In all honesty all the people I've talked to might be pathological liars & yet all the books written for & or against the Partition & the creation of Pakistan make do with the same 'liars' & expound the hypothesis they came up with by taking the same disjointed 'facts' out of the same cauldron as others.

P.S There aren't any established historians of the Indian Subcontinent that I know of but yes a lot of people have written on it & indeed some of them do have a degree in History to back their claims up with. Perhaps you should go through Pyarelal's book on Gandhi or even Azad's own book on India & Indian Muslims. Perhaps you should read Ahmed Hassan Dani, G.Allana, Akbar Ahmed, Durrani, Zaidi, Bolitho & others who were there when all of this was happening.

Read both sides...both narratives ! Read as much as you can & then weigh things up as being 'substantiated or otherwise' ! But read those who were 'there', I can't stress that enough !

Cheers will try!

Although, If there was an "establish historian" on this subject who both Indian and Pakistanis can agree on then this forum would loose most its members.
@Zarvin

If I was minister for religous affairs, I would create Din-e-ilahi version 2.0 and impose it on everyone.

Therefore you will have no argument against God as you will be forced to things under compulsion. How lucky for you all

 

[Armstrong]

Cheers will try!

Although, If there was an "establish historian" on this subject who both Indian and Pakistanis can agree on then this forum would loose most its members.
@Zarvin

If I was minister for religous affairs, I would create Din-e-ilahi version 2.0 and impose it on everyone.

Therefore you will have no argument against God as you will be forced to things under compulsion. How lucky for you all

Thank You, my brother !

But you do realize that I wrote a pile of crap which doesn't have a head or a tail !

Din-i-Illahi !

Blasphemy !

Fiqh-Buttiyaaa !

 

[American Pakistani]

@Marshmallow

Mods need to fix your post count

lol only 100 posts with almost 1500 thanks...What

 

[Redbull]

Thank You, my brother !

But you do realize that I wrote a pile of crap which doesn't have a head or a tail !

Din-i-Illahi !

Blasphemy !

Fiqh-Buttiyaaa !

No it was informative, although I admit, I did skip a few bits At the end of the day, without any establish historican confirming what is right and what is wrong, we are arguing conjecture.

In fact, I will make abortion obligatory, as long as all your kids go to heaven, I'm prepared to be tormented for eternity. How lucky those bastards will be, they'll get their 72 virgins and eternal bliss without having to toil or work hard in their life.

 

[KingMamba]

kingMAMA

MarshmalMAN

 

[American Pakistani]

Thread started on 09-26-2012 & it is almost 190 pages away from hitting 1000 pages. I think this is the fastest growing thread.

 

[KingMamba]

Chota Pakistan ko defend kartay kartay shaheed ho gaya.

How they ban razpak and let a couple Indians walk away scot free like that stink *** troll Pucktoon. A pathan born in Iran living in India.

Har agla man I watch is from earth!



Thank you Mr. Spoiler! Well, I like chickflicks like Hes the man and stuff like that or comedies like Singham and Debangg

"Main billiii houn bilii" Most memorable line from Singham.

@KingMamba93 @Armstrong ki to suna hai hatya ho gai hai
@HAMMAD REHMAN KHAN
I see u here when ever I am online though u post rarely

Main samjha naii.

 

[American Pakistani]

How they ban razpak and let a couple Indians walk away scot free like that stink *** troll Pucktoon. A pathan born in Iran living in India.

How do you know he is Pathan?

Rest of the post i agree with you.

 

[EagleEyes]

Just noticed mera dost @RazPaK vacation per gaya.

 

[KingMamba]

How do you know he is Pathan?

Rest of the post i agree with you.

His user id is Pucktoon, I know he is not pathan hence the rolleyes.

 

[Hyperion]

Sarkar-E-Aala, ijazat ho to hum kuch arz karain?

Naye saal kee khushi mein agar mumkin ho to @RazPaK kee saza mein kuch kunjaish dekhayee jaye!

Mukameen @ Nasawarabad.

Just noticed mera dost @RazPaK vacation per gaya.

 

[Kompromat]

"My, God He Was Cold [Uncompromising], Cold As The Ice": First words of lord Mountbatten after coming out of his Very FIRST meeting with Jinnah.

@Hyperion @Armstrong @KRAIT @RescueRanger @Last Hope @Asim Aquil @Marshmallow @A.Rafay

 

[American Pakistani]

Sarkar-E-Aala, ijazat ho to hum kuch arz karain?

Naye saal kee khushi mein agar mumkin ho to @RazPaK kee saza mein kuch kunjaish dekhayee jaye!

Mukameen @ Nasawarabad.

Jee haan hum bhi aap ki appeal mein barabar k shareek hain.

hahaha Naswarabad. Pakistanis love to add "abad" & "istan" just like Americans love to add "ton" & "ville", i love it.

"My, God He Was Cold [Uncompromising], Cold As The Ice": First words of lord Mountbatten after coming out of his Very FIRST meeting with Jinnah.

@Hyperion @Armstrong @KRAIT @RescueRanger @Last Hope @Asim Aquil @Marshmallow @A.Rafay

That is called a leader. I'm happy that Quaid e Azam is respected equally in every part of Pakistan.

 

[Kompromat]

"In, 1940's China was a Baby you [The West] slapped it & it would be scared,In 60's China was a Child, you slapped it & it would Cry, In the 70's China was a young boy, you slapped it and it will not like that but keep quiet, in 2000's China is a grown up boy, you slap it and it looks you in the eye, in the future China will be a fully grown man, you slap it and it will break your face ": Chinese Think Tank

No it was informative, although I admit, I did skip a few bits At the end of the day, without any establish historican confirming what is right and what is wrong, we are arguing conjecture.

In fact, I will make abortion obligatory, as long as all your kids go to heaven, I'm prepared to be tormented for eternity. How lucky those bastards will be, they'll get their 72 virgins and eternal bliss without having to toil or work hard in their life.

That is a dogmatic term, totally non existent anywhere in the Quran or Sahahi'h Ahadith, since i am assuming [correct me if i am wrong] you haven't read any of them nor you hold any knowledge about any of them. I will be request you to stop using that term. This, term was invented by the western media's folklore invention department.