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Narasimha Rao, not Vajpayee, was the PM who set India on a nuclear explosion path

I really don't like these comparisons unless they are substantiated by facts, between two governments. Even PM Modi during his interview to timesnow credited last government in putting into motion the process of getting MTCR and NSG membership.
Similarly here, PM Rao prepared groundwork for Pokhran 2 and ultimately it was the case of taking a political call.
We must also remember that PVN Rao inherited an almost bankrupt economy and he had to enforce liberalization process. That meant when he completed his tenure, India, economically was in far better position. N tests invariably attract sanctions and unless the economy is strong enough to absorb those shocks, you are calling for a disaster. So Vajpayee sahab was perhaps in a much better position to authorize tests and at the same time bear the economic and foreign policy bumps that were to come. & he did!
Both had same team of brilliant technocrats like Late Kalam Sahab, Dr. Kakdokar et al but the geo political conditions were much different.
International events work on a different time scale and compared to tenure of governments, they take much more time to materialize. So as a general statement, i don't think there would ever be a case of single government taking whole credit. At the same time casual observers like us too should be mature never to blame a single administration for blunders that occur.
@Abingdonboy @Levina @Joe Shearer @PARIKRAMA @GURU DUTT @nair @Rain Man @Robinhood Pandey
You know what???
You're right.
Why is it so hard for ppl to accept that a BJP govt could have worked in tandem with its predecessor which happened to be a congress govt?
Pure ego!!! :/

So what was it that American satellite had picked up???
Some Maintainence work- one of the shafts, which was opened for preparation, was found to be filled up with water three fourths of the way to the top. They claimed to have detected "scientific activity". Mehhhhh
But those guys are clever, I must say.

Which PM would have invited economic sanctions??? PVNR didn't want his efforts to be watered down. Sensible!
Vajpayee happened to be the right man at the right time.


Btw I must say Indian TTAs here are very parsimonious. A good post deserves a +ve rating. But......
@Joe Shearer @nair are you listening???
I Dnt mean my post. Lolz
But his...
 
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India was ready to conduct a second nuclear test under the then PM PV Narashima Rao. But somehow uncle Sam found out and the Clinton administration at that time pressurised India against it.

The Indian economy was showing improvements due to the reforms and India's relation with the US was also moving forward.
Narashima Rao actually asked Vajpayee to go ahead with what he couldn't do.
 
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ego like this @Levina.
I didn't deny MMS contribution.
in fact, even during MMS time, you should check Modi's contribution from Guj towards Solar contribution. That will give you the real numbers.

What I am questioning is the underhanded attempt to NOT give the appreciation where it is due!

Again, I could tell you to check Guj contribution to Solar power from 2010 -2013 but then I don't want to embarrass you further



Am purely talking about solar policy ( perks and REC) developed/ introduced in MMS (era) .... I said we must give credit to MMS and his team ... . but this guy saying, I would be embarrassed.... ironically I have work experience with GERMI ( Gujarat energy research and management inst) .. lolz my life evolve around solar projects yet this guy want to educate me..


one more in my ignore list..
 
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ego like this @Levina.

You and @DesiGuy1403 should go get a room.Your love for each other on the forum is getting too much to bear. :lol:

Kidding guyz. I hope you'll be able sort it out among urselves.



On topic:
By ego, I meant the ego of authors who write books with contradicting facts. I'm sure, PVNR and Vajpayee had a good understanding among themselves.
What finally matters is that India was able to carry out the tests successfully, sending shock waves across the world. It forced many to sit up and take notice of India.
That was a turning point in Indian history. Nobody can deny that!
APJ Abdul Kalam,wherever you're, you're still loved. :)
 
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ego like this @Levina.



Am purely talking about solar policy ( perks and REC) developed/ introduced in MMS (era) .... I said we must give credit to MMS and his team ... . but this guy saying, I would be embarrassed.... ironically I have work experience with GERMI ( Gujarat energy research and management inst) .. lolz my life evolve around solar projects yet this guy want to educate me..


one more in my ignore list..

You brought this point into the debate to prop up some one, gave too much due without even mentioning the real success.
If I am demeaning MMS, let me assure you, he earned every bit of it for his utter failure as PM in his second term.

Let me ask you this, PVN Rao was a great Indian PM. MMS worked under Rao. In ten years of MMS being PM, what did he do to give Rao his due as one of the greatest Indian PM's?
Why is it that it falls on BJP to accord respect to great non-Nehru dynasty leaders?

And lastly do you think Congress or for that matter the country will even remember MMS being the PM if Nehru chamchas have their way with history?
 
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So bjp only achievement of history belongs to congress

Now bhaktas :taz::rofl::rofl::rofl::help:

You should read up on which party cherishes PVN Rao today and which one shuns and ignores it before trying to mock bhaktas.

In fact it is only Bhaktas that you are ridiculing that are able to see beyond their party boundaries and recognise and give due credit to a leader like PVN Rao....whereas your cherished sickular scamgress not only ignores him, but completely dishonours him (just read what they did for his funeral) all because he did not pay obeisance to the first family of scamgress.

That is a clear evidence of what happens to a capable, independent and strong mind in Congress when it refuses to be under remote control of first family like a certain later "PM" that uttered maybe one quiet word every month after checking and rechecking with the italian waitress.

Congress can only claim achievement of PVN era when they respect him....these days they dont even mention his name....and here you are mocking Bhakts when they are the only ones (of the two national parties) that remember PVN Rao's stoic leadership that set the way for ABV.
 
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It's true. Rao ordered the tests and americans picked up the movement on the Sats. Considering the opening of the Indian economy that he was planning, he decided to shelve it. All good decisions.

You explained it perfectly........ The political call to conduct the test was taken by Vajpayee, and one must appreciate his will to go ahead with it, and it was not an easy decision to take.... But as i you rightly said the efforts of PVN towards improving economy cannot be ignored, and vajpayee could not have done the test if the economy was not put back in track......

But the most important aspect was the Political will to conduct the test and keeping it secret until the official declaration......

it was given by Rao too.

Hmm..
Everyone knew we had the bomb. So, the only thing stopping anyone from testing is the political will.

ABV had the will. Let's give credit to the person who did it not to some one who "could" have done it.

Bhakti generally come up with low IQ posts.
 
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It's true. Rao ordered the tests and americans picked up the movement on the Sats. Considering the opening of the Indian economy that he was planning, he decided to shelve it. All good decisions.



it was given by Rao too.



Bhakti generally come up with low IQ posts.

lol...the same set of people who disgraced Rao are now crapping on Bhakts who are the ONLY ones who are trying to restore Rao's legacy.
Well done Sickular ;)
 
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lol...the same set of people who disgraced Rao are now crapping on Bhakts who are the ONLY ones who are trying to restore Rao's legacy.
Well done Sickular ;)

after failing in its effort to disgrace Rao, it tries to disgrace his legacy.
 
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after failing in its effort to disgrace Rao, it tries to disgrace his legacy.

There is only one bunch of sycophants that disgraced his legacy when his legacy needed the most remembering:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/dec/28monu.htm

QUOTE:

But this fresh dawn never took place. Sometime after noon on December 23, 13 days after he had been brought to the hospital early in the morning following a cardiac incident, PV decided to call it quits. It was more than an hour before the doctors finally did.

Strangely -- or perhaps entirely expectedly -- despite a special Union Cabinet meeting at 3 pm on the subject of his funeral, at his 9 Motilal Nehru Marg home there were no arrangements made to receive the body and place it on a platform, nor flowers, nor any laying out of carpets by the administration for the mourning crowds to sit down on, nor even a shamiana on the lawns.

Finally, Kishore, a friend of PV's, made arrangements for both. The shamiana could get erected only by 8.15 pm. Carpets and flowers too were provided by family and friends and not by what seemed to be a totally bankrupt Government of India. As if to atone for his visible helplessness, the prime minister, Sardar Manmohan Singh, looked visibly moved as he quietly remained by the side of the body, which had been brought in from the hospital a little before 5 pm. As a gesture of supreme graciousness, Sonia Gandhi turned up and even stayed for a few minutes.

While some of those present then may be made to deny this later, the fact is that the family members -- as well as the crowd of mourners -- would have been happy to see the father of economic reform and the first prime minister from the south in the history of Free India be given the same honours as Sanjay Gandhi and Charan Singh, a State funeral in New Delhi and an appropriate memorial
. Home Minister Shivraj Patil was clearly the emissary of some Unseen Power, for he came several times to the Rao home from some other place where he had apparently gone for consultations, to insist in his own courteous way on a funeral in Hyderabad.

It was clear to observers that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was not being consulted on this matter, there was not even a pretence of that on the part of the emissaries of the Unseen Power. A few such as Ahmed Patel could be observed giving regular updates via cellphone to Somebody about the situation in 9 Motilal Nehru Marg. A very useful man, Ahmed Patel.

It was decided Somewhere that PV's body would be sent back to his home state. Ironically, PV had spent the previous 30 years in New Delhi, as a Cabinet minister, as an AICC general secretary and as prime minister. Even when he had been the prime minister, no member of his family lived with him, they would come on (infrequent) visits.

In his last years to, he lived alone. Thus the attempt to justify a shift to Hyderabad on the grounds that "he was not a Delhi resident" was somewhat of a stretch. Another argument used to justify the move to Hyderabad for the final obsequies was that the Vajpayee Cabinet had passed a resolution against any more samadhis. Again, for a regime that has been talking of 'detoxifying' the country from the misdeeds of the Vajpayee Parivar era, this was somewhat ingenious.

The family behaved with quiet dignity throughout. They said that as their father had been a Congressman, a freedom fighter, a prime minister, they would leave it to the Congress party and the government as to what was to be done.

The only moment of friction came when a high official suggested that if the sentiment was so overwhelming within the circle of those who loved PV that the cremation take place in the national capital, then very well, it would take place, but in the Delhi cantonment, as though PV were some bacillus that the refined gentry living in the Lutyens Zone did not want to see contaminate their environment.

The response to this suggestion on the part of those close to PV was that they would then cremate him at the Nigambodh Ghat, along with the other common men, which after all was all that he seemed to be to the powers-that-be.

It was at this stage that a Heavy Hitter arrived, in the person of Y S Rajshekhar Reddy, chief minister of Andhra Pradesh, who 'cajoled' those close to PV into 'agreeing' that it would be best to cremate him in Hyderabad. Around this time, those who looked like Intelligence Bureau sleuths began nosing around the rooms. It had been known that PV had kept voluminous records, including the draft of a book on the Emergency. It is unlikely that any of this will ever emerge into the daylight, except in a very sanitised way.

The next day, December 24, the body of the former Congress prime minister was brought to the gates of the AICC office at 24, Akbar Road and kept there for 20 minutes, 'to pay homage.' Apparently, the body was so heavy that it would not have been possible to lift what was left of PV from the gun carriage into the Congress headquarters, which would have been the civilised thing to do.

After this final humiliation, P V Narasimha Rao left New Delhi for Hyderabad, this time for good.

========================================

So don't you dare talk about legacy of PVN Rao if you are a congress supporter and especially if you are some big hoohahh fan of italian waitress and her sardarji mute.

PVN Rao is now pretty much a posthumous honorary member of BJP and Bhakt ideology. If congress wants it back, they are welcome to apologise multi-fold for how they treated him in last few corporeal moments on Earth....replace that first family that treated him this shabbily (on account of his independence from them) and genuinely change their own political strategy and attitude. But then they will become a Bhakt party as well if they do that right?

I mean backstabbing someone when they are dead, that is the ultimate low. But what to expect from first-family dependent scamgress?
 
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There is only one bunch of sycophants that disgraced his legacy when his legacy needed the most remembering:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/dec/28monu.htm

QUOTE:

But this fresh dawn never took place. Sometime after noon on December 23, 13 days after he had been brought to the hospital early in the morning following a cardiac incident, PV decided to call it quits. It was more than an hour before the doctors finally did.

Strangely -- or perhaps entirely expectedly -- despite a special Union Cabinet meeting at 3 pm on the subject of his funeral, at his 9 Motilal Nehru Marg home there were no arrangements made to receive the body and place it on a platform, nor flowers, nor any laying out of carpets by the administration for the mourning crowds to sit down on, nor even a shamiana on the lawns.

Finally, Kishore, a friend of PV's, made arrangements for both. The shamiana could get erected only by 8.15 pm. Carpets and flowers too were provided by family and friends and not by what seemed to be a totally bankrupt Government of India. As if to atone for his visible helplessness, the prime minister, Sardar Manmohan Singh, looked visibly moved as he quietly remained by the side of the body, which had been brought in from the hospital a little before 5 pm. As a gesture of supreme graciousness, Sonia Gandhi turned up and even stayed for a few minutes.

While some of those present then may be made to deny this later, the fact is that the family members -- as well as the crowd of mourners -- would have been happy to see the father of economic reform and the first prime minister from the south in the history of Free India be given the same honours as Sanjay Gandhi and Charan Singh, a State funeral in New Delhi and an appropriate memorial
. Home Minister Shivraj Patil was clearly the emissary of some Unseen Power, for he came several times to the Rao home from some other place where he had apparently gone for consultations, to insist in his own courteous way on a funeral in Hyderabad.

It was clear to observers that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was not being consulted on this matter, there was not even a pretence of that on the part of the emissaries of the Unseen Power. A few such as Ahmed Patel could be observed giving regular updates via cellphone to Somebody about the situation in 9 Motilal Nehru Marg. A very useful man, Ahmed Patel.

It was decided Somewhere that PV's body would be sent back to his home state. Ironically, PV had spent the previous 30 years in New Delhi, as a Cabinet minister, as an AICC general secretary and as prime minister. Even when he had been the prime minister, no member of his family lived with him, they would come on (infrequent) visits.

In his last years to, he lived alone. Thus the attempt to justify a shift to Hyderabad on the grounds that "he was not a Delhi resident" was somewhat of a stretch. Another argument used to justify the move to Hyderabad for the final obsequies was that the Vajpayee Cabinet had passed a resolution against any more samadhis. Again, for a regime that has been talking of 'detoxifying' the country from the misdeeds of the Vajpayee Parivar era, this was somewhat ingenious.

The family behaved with quiet dignity throughout. They said that as their father had been a Congressman, a freedom fighter, a prime minister, they would leave it to the Congress party and the government as to what was to be done.

The only moment of friction came when a high official suggested that if the sentiment was so overwhelming within the circle of those who loved PV that the cremation take place in the national capital, then very well, it would take place, but in the Delhi cantonment, as though PV were some bacillus that the refined gentry living in the Lutyens Zone did not want to see contaminate their environment.

The response to this suggestion on the part of those close to PV was that they would then cremate him at the Nigambodh Ghat, along with the other common men, which after all was all that he seemed to be to the powers-that-be.

It was at this stage that a Heavy Hitter arrived, in the person of Y S Rajshekhar Reddy, chief minister of Andhra Pradesh, who 'cajoled' those close to PV into 'agreeing' that it would be best to cremate him in Hyderabad. Around this time, those who looked like Intelligence Bureau sleuths began nosing around the rooms. It had been known that PV had kept voluminous records, including the draft of a book on the Emergency. It is unlikely that any of this will ever emerge into the daylight, except in a very sanitised way.

The next day, December 24, the body of the former Congress prime minister was brought to the gates of the AICC office at 24, Akbar Road and kept there for 20 minutes, 'to pay homage.' Apparently, the body was so heavy that it would not have been possible to lift what was left of PV from the gun carriage into the Congress headquarters, which would have been the civilised thing to do.

After this final humiliation, P V Narasimha Rao left New Delhi for Hyderabad, this time for good.

========================================

So don't you dare talk about legacy of PVN Rao if you are a congress supporter and especially if you are some big hoohahh fan of italian waitress and her sardarji mute.

PVN Rao is now pretty much a posthumous honorary member of BJP and Bhakt ideology. If congress wants it back, they are welcome to apologise multi-fold for how they treated him in last few corporeal moments on Earth....replace that first family that treated him this shabbily (on account of his independence from them) and genuinely change their own political strategy and attitude. But then they will become a Bhakt party as well if they do that right?

I mean backstabbing someone when they are dead, that is the ultimate low. But what to expect from first-family dependent scamgress?

That sums up why Congress will never have a realistic chance of improving in near future atleast.
In past 15 years or so it has turned essentially into a family run trust and with able leaders (who are not part of family) are pushed to sides. That means only sycophancy will lead them to some plum positions and ultimately they get to call the shots.
The biggest problem that Congress faces today is that it has now been reduced to near zero ground base in many a states and with that kind of structure, i'm not sure how they will compete with regional parties, let alone BJP at center. Their heir apparent isn't still ready to take responsibility and no one knows who is calling shots.
Right now the only thing keeping party relevant is how they are disrupting parliament (& for this rather regrettable trend, BJP alone is responsible).
I'm afraid these are not good signs either for Congress or for Indian Democratic setup which requires a strong constructive opposition.
 
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Reasons why I feel congress and its lutyen's cycle would never give PVN his due share are:

1. He wasn't from the dynasty and was vehemently against the unwritten hierarchy rule of First family leading INC and the nation.

2. He was from south India.
 
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That sums up why Congress will never have a realistic chance of improving in near future atleast.
In past 15 years or so it has turned essentially into a family run trust and with able leaders (who are not part of family) are pushed to sides. That means only sycophancy will lead them to some plum positions and ultimately they get to call the shots.
The biggest problem that Congress faces today is that it has now been reduced to near zero ground base in many a states and with that kind of structure, i'm not sure how they will compete with regional parties, let alone BJP at center. Their heir apparent isn't still ready to take responsibility and no one knows who is calling shots.
Right now the only thing keeping party relevant is how they are disrupting parliament (& for this rather regrettable trend, BJP alone is responsible).
I'm afraid these are not good signs either for Congress or for Indian Democratic setup which requires a strong constructive opposition.

Yes I want a good solid competitor to BJP, preferably more than just one...but at least one.

BJP does just enough to be better than the rest....and India suffers.

There needs to be true, honest and virtue based (or at least results based) politics with plenty of competition.

This is a curse that India will be saddled with for some time I fear.....the New Education Policy draft released recently looks promising for the long term, but much more is needed at fundamental level.

India as a modernising society is also too quick to abandon its strengths (family based society, virtuous life, stability) for many ills of the globalised world....this is another paradigm we have to grapple with by first understanding it....but everyone with means seem to be blindly following the rat race without trying to contemplate and rise above it.

At least it promises to be an interesting story during my lifetime. I have learned to not take it too seriously whatever happens...but I hope for the best.

Reasons why I feel congress and its lutyen's cycle would never give PVN his due share are:

1. He wasn't from the dynasty and was vehemently against the unwritten hierarchy rule of First family leading INC and the nation.

2. He was from south India.

First one I completely agree with as you can see in my posts.

Second it depends though you could be right. Indira Gandhi I knew had a strong connection to South during her reign (she got much support from MGR at crucial times and it was Kamaraj that was instrumental in her coming to power in the first place). But this may not have translated further down the bloodline or among the general Hindi Belt political class.

Its too bad, I think India can do with more southerners in power at the centre (or cabinet at least) more frequently. At least with BJP there is some chance with the merit based system in place.
 
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You should read up on which party cherishes PVN Rao today and which one shuns and ignores it before trying to mock bhaktas.

In fact it is only Bhaktas that you are ridiculing that are able to see beyond their party boundaries and recognise and give due credit to a leader like PVN Rao....whereas your cherished sickular scamgress not only ignores him, but completely dishonours him (just read what they did for his funeral) all because he did not pay obeisance to the first family of scamgress.

That is a clear evidence of what happens to a capable, independent and strong mind in Congress when it refuses to be under remote control of first family like a certain later "PM" that uttered maybe one quiet word every month after checking and rechecking with the italian waitress.

Congress can only claim achievement of PVN era when they respect him....these days they dont even mention his name....and here you are mocking Bhakts when they are the only ones (of the two national parties) that remember PVN Rao's stoic leadership that set the way for ABV.
But u can't change the fact he was congress leader I rest my case
 
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