Myths about the Taliban

[syedali73]

Khomeni, kindly dont bring hazrat Ali and hazrat amir muawiya war into the discussion.

Mr name caller, I belong to Sunni Hanafi maslak of thought, and my family follows teachings of Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (RA), hence a Deobandi.

 

[OrionHunter]

Have you actually read all those books?

Yep! Except the last one, Rumer, Boris Z. Central Asia: a gathering storm? Read just about half of it!

(If I spend less time on PDF I'll probably get the time to finish it!! )

 

[Jaggu]

Taliban is not the first jihadi movement among pashtuns. In early 19th century syed ahmad bareilvi , a follower of abdul wahab, initiated jihad in pakhtunkhwa against sikhs and to liberate hindostan. .

That was the ultimate goal of Syad Ahmad Barelvi who declared himself as Amir Ul Monineen. He started his movement in NW frontier, if he had succeeded, his goal was to then conquer the rest of the Sikh empire and implementing strict Sharia Law. Had he done that, his next goal would have been to use that as a base to conquering the rest of India. So similar to TTP movement of today who also want to conquer Pakistan, implement strict Sharia and then use that to launch a conquest of India(Ghazwa Tul Hind).

 

[waz]

Mr read books of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab and prove one thing he said which is not according to Quran and Sunnah its you who need to help who can't prove single point wrong through Quran and Sunnah but only want to talk shit as always

Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab, the shaytaan from Najid was refuted by his own brother Sulaiman bin Abdul Wahhab and his father the great scholar of islam; Shaykh ul-Islam, ‘Abdul Wahhab Ibn Sulaymaan an-Najdi!!!!!

His father warned that much evil would come from his son who had not only abandoned the four schools of thought, but also refused to learn from the pious scholars of the time and made his own rulings. He applied verses meant for non-Muslims to Muslims and his followers slaughtered thousands of Muslims, raped women and enslaved children who refused the call to his dawah. They destroyed the heritage of the Prophet and the holy graves of his companions and his family They gave ultimatums to people and any objections were dealt with brutal force.These traits are that of the Kwarij that the Prophet(saws) talked of. They were tackled by the ruler of the time Sulaymaan Bin Urair’ar but managed to flee and seek the help of the Al-Saud tribe.

Eventually he died, but his followers created chaos until the Ottoman caliphs sent their armies to destroy these deviants, with the great Muhammad Ali Pasha(ra) leading the charge to finish them off.

Sounds very similar to what the TTP do.

Here of what people said of him.

Sulaiman bin Abdul Wahhab (brother of Mohammad bin Abdul Wahhab, founder of the Wahhabi sect) says in his book "Al-Sawa'iq Al-Ilahiyyah", about the Wahabbi's:
"And today we are afflicted with those who associate themselves with Quran and Sunnah, and claim to derive rulings from them, while not caring about the opinions of the scholars who differ with them, and refusing to discuss their rulings with qualified scholars. What is even worse, is that these people impose their rulings on people and consider anyone who differs with them as a Kafir." Sulaiman bin Abdul Wahhab, "Al-Sawa'iq Al-Ilahiyyah", pg.5.

-Mohammad bin Hamid Al-Najdi, from his chapter on Shaykh Abdul Wahhab, the father of Mohammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab:
"He is the father of the Wahhabbi da'wah founder; Mohammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, whos controversy spread to many places. Even though Mohammad did not publicly preach his ideas and teachings until after his fathers death, I was told by some scholars on the authority of the scholars who lived during Ibn Abdul Wahhabs lifetime, that his father (Abdul Wahhab) was extremely angry with him for not learning fiqh from the shaikhs and scholars of Najd, and that Shaykh Abdul Wahhab predicted his son would be the cause of unrest. Shaykh Abdul Wahhab would say to people: 'You will witness evil from Mohammad'. The Shaykh's son Sulaiman; brother of Mohammad, was also against the teachings of Mohammad and refuted them with Quranic verses and hadiths, because Mohammad would not accept anything else as evidence. He refused all the opinions and rulings of the Imams of Ahlus-Sunnah except those of Ibn Taymiyyah and his student Ibnul Qayyim, he considered their works almost sacred and infallible. He used the words of Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibnul Qayyim to argue with people, even if their words were not to be understood in the way Mohammad understood them." Ibn Hamid Al-Najdi, "Al-Suhub Al-Wabila ala Dara'ih Al-Hanabila", 2/680.

-The great Tafseer Imam, Mahmud Shukri Al-Alusi (who is considered a supporter of the Wahhabbi da'wah) says:
"Mohammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was always reading the books of tafseer, hadith, and aqida as a youth. He began to reject and refute the beliefs of the scholars of Najd when became older, no one supported him in this action, and in turn many people began refuting him. Ibn Abdul Wahhab became known for his rejection of tawassul." Imam Alusi, "Tarikh Najd", pg. 106.

Imam Alusi also says in the same book, pg. 113:
"The way in which his followers admired him, was similar to the way the Companions admired the Prophet (pbuh). Never has there been a Shaykh with such loyal followers as Ibn Abdul Wahhab, whos followers considered as equal to the Imams of the 4 madhabs. They blindly followed their Shaykh to a point where if someone mentioned him in a disrespectful manner, they would kill that person."

-The historian Ibrahim Al-Haydari says:
"Ibn Abdul Wahhab did not follow the methodology of his father Abdul Wahhab and his grandfather Sulaiman, rather he was extremely intolerant, he always attacked scholars, he declared anyone who differed with him as a kafir and permitted the shedding of his blood. Ibn Abdul Wahhab considered killing other Muslims whom he differed with as 'Jihad for the sake of Allah', and he would not hesitate to declare their money and belongings as war booty for him and his followers. He declared it forbidden for Muslims to intend visiting the grave of the Prophet (pbuh) and seeking his intercession, or the intercession of other prophets and awliya'a, a matter which many scholars permitted. It was also known that he claimed ijtihad mutlaq, or unlimited ijtihad. He used Ibn Taymiyyah's books as a reference for his fatwas, and did not trust any other scholars." "Inwan Al-Majd fi Bayan Ahwal Baghdad wal Basra wa Najd", pg. 235.

 

[Hiptullha]

Mr read books of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab and prove one thing he said which is not according to Quran and Sunnah its you who need to help who can't prove single point wrong through Quran and Sunnah but only want to talk shit as always

It's sad to know that you need a scholar who was born a few hundred years after the lifetime of Muhammed (pbuh) to teach you about Islam and its principles. Ever tried reading and analysing it yourself?

 

[A.Rafay]

All these myths are busted, TTP is a mixture of deobandi/salafi elements.
We have not been successful in reverting the mindsets of people who are misguided by these elements. Hence they continue to spread their twisted ideology and terrorism.

 

[shuntmaster]

I agree with most of it however, the issue of drones isn't an isolated or sporadic one. The claim isn't that drones alone create talibans or new recruits but the pretext under which these talibans function is potent enough to attract most and not merely the tribals. The divide among the nation merely exists because of the religious pretext with which they arm themselves and drones are another element that further strengthens their narrative. Anyways, Very nice post.

This idea is perpetuated by people like Imran Khan and similar politicians..

How does Haqqani network fit into this Taliban mix? Does Pakistan still consider them a strategic asset?

 

[Aamna14]

This idea is perpetuated by people like Imran Khan and similar politicians..

How does Haqqani network fit into this Taliban mix? Does Pakistan still consider them a strategic asset?

That idea is not perpetuated by any politician in fact by the extremists.

 

[shuntmaster]

Life under Taliban
IRFAN HUSAIN

Published 2014-02-22 07:26:16
IT would appear that the Taliban are broadcasting on a radio frequency most Pakistanis are not tuned into. And yet their message is loud and clear: our version of the Sharia, or else.

But the rose-tinted vision of an earthly heaven has little to do with reality. As we know from Afghanistan when it was ruled by the Taliban, it is hardly the model of governance most of us would like to live under.

Despite the latest Taliban atrocity — and one merges into the next in a red mist — Nawaz Sharif is bent on sacrificing any number of Pakistanis to make sure Punjab is not targeted.

And sure enough, despite numerous terrorist killings in Karachi, Fata and Peshawar, the prime minister’s home base has not been hit recently. When there was an attack in Rawalpindi, the army and air force retaliated quickly, killing dozens of suspected terrorists in North Waziristan.

So, given our current trajectory towards abject surrender, we need to start thinking of what our country would look like when it is ruled by the Taliban. Sure, the process might begin by ‘only’ conceding the tribal areas, but it would take a moron to think it would stop there. From their secure base, the militants would want to extend their reach deeper into Pakistan, much as they did when they were handed Swat on a platter.

Given the steely determination shown by our foe, and the dithering and lack of spine they have encountered in successive governments, the imposition of the Taliban version of the Sharia is now on the cards. What would this mean in reality?

In a recent interview, the Taliban spokesman has already declared that their candidate for the post of emir of the Islamic Emirate of Pakistan is Maulana Fazlullah. As he showed us when he was running Swat, he has no misguided notions of human rights to stay his hand while dispensing his brand of swift justice. So expect much blood in public squares, and public floggings to entertain us.

The TTP has already indicated its future educational policy by shooting Malala Yousafzai for insisting on her right to study. They have blown up hundreds of schools and colleges across the tribal areas and KP province.

The Taliban have also made it clear that under them, education will only be imparted through madressahs. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out where this path will take us.

Interest is anathema to the Taliban, so they will refuse to pay any on the billions of dollars of loans we have taken. Our creditors will then block all further loans, triggering a foreign exchange crisis. Imports will come to a standstill, and industry will grind to a halt.

Our foreign relations will be based on who is a good Muslim and who is not. Thus, the military, now dressed in shalwar kameez with ankles showing, will be told to prepare an invasion of India. As Taliban cheerleaders like Zaid Hamid have been urging, we should aim to plant the banner of Islam on the ramparts of Delhi Fort. Good luck with that.

Women, of course, would be told to stay at home. The millions employed across the country would lose their jobs overnight. They would only be able to emerge in full burqa when accompanies by a mahram, or close male relative. They could not be treated by a male doctor, and any display of skin would be punished with an immediate public flogging by a Talib, much as they did in Afghanistan when it was under their control.

Pakistan is already a pariah in the community of nations, thanks to its tolerance of extremist terrorism, and its export of militancy. Imagine the doors that will be finally and firmly barred to all bearers of green Pakistani passports. And if we think the world will accept the nightmare scenario of our nuclear arsenal falling into the hands of the TTP, we need to think again.

For years, there has been endless chatter in our TV studios about the Americans wishing to neutralise our nuclear facilities. This is guaranteed to happen should the Taliban take over. I’m sure this would not be a bloodless campaign, but I don’t think the rest of the world will shed too many tears.

The minorities might as well pack their bags and apply for asylum to whichever country will accept them. Non-Muslims, or to be more specific, non-Sunnis, are already treated like second-class citizens.

The Taliban have given the Kalash an ultimatum: convert or we kill you. It’s only a matter of time before churches, temples and other places of worship are shut forever.

Me? I’ll just grow a beard and order above-the-ankle, Taliban-style shalwars.

irfanhusain@gmail.com

 

[shuntmaster]

Mast Gul, a freedom fighter turned terrorist attacks Peshawar
Amir Mir
Friday, February 07, 2014

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistani jehadi chickens are coming home to roost. Mast Gul, an ex commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen who fought against the Indian security forces for liberation of Jammu and Kashmir, has turned out to be the mastermind of last Tuesday’s suicide bombing in Peshawar.
The attack has already been claimed by the Peshawar chapter of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), which is waging a war against the state of Pakistan.
Mast Gul was earlier considered to be an asset of the Pakistani intelligence establishment. He shot to prominence following his dramatic escape from the historic Charar-e-Sharif dargah in Jammu and Kashmir during the May 1995 fighting between Kashmiri militants and the Indian troops. A resident of the Khwaja Town area on Pajaggi Road in Peshawar, Mast Gul appeared at a news conference on February 5, 2014, sitting next to the Peshawar district chief of the TTP, Mufti Hasaan Swati, who claimed responsibility for Tuesday’s suicide attack that left nine people dead at a Peshawar hotel. Hasaan Swati disclosed that he had tasked Mast Gul, whom he described as a TTP commander for Peshawar, to plan the suicide bombing.
Originally belonging to the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province, Haroon Khan, also known by his nom de guerre Mast Gul, had established a strong base in the Shrine town of Charar-e-Sharif in Budgam district of Jammu and Kashmir in the mid-90s. In a bid to flush them out, the Indian Army had launched an operation, which resulted in a standoff that lasted for two months, till Jammu and Kashmir’s most revered 14th century Charar-e-Sharif shrine was gutted on May 11, 1995 in a mysterious fire. While the Indian Army claimed that the militants had triggered blasts that caused fire, the Kashmiri militants had accused the Indian security forces. Twenty jehadis, two army men and five civilians had died in the operation. However, Mast Gul made good his escape, only to reappear in Pakistan.
Thousands of people and clutter of Kalashnikov assault rifle fire had greeted Mast Gul as he drove into Muzaffarabad from Chakothi on August 2, 1995, three months after his escape from Charar-e-Sharif after setting it on fire. Accompanied by over 100 jehadi colleagues belonging to the Hizbul Mujahideen (HuM), he vowed to avenge the desecration of the Charar-e-Sharif dargah by the Indian security forces.
Qazi Hussain Ahmed, then ameer of the Jamaat-e-Islami Pakistan, accompanied Mast Gul in a drive from Chakothi and described him as a symbol of the Kashmir jehad. Gul then addressed a public meeting at Liaqat Bagh in Rawalpindi on August 4, 1995, which was also attended by Qazi Hussain Ahmed.
According to the American diplomatic cables leaked by the WikiLeaks and reported by the international press on May 9, 2011, Mast Gul was described as a former Major in the Pakistani Army who had fought against the Indian government in Jammu & Kashmir. This information had been disclosed to the US intelligence agencies by a Guantanamo Bay detainee, Chaman Gul, who had been fighting against the Indian security forces in Jammu & Kashmir.
On July 28 2012, India’s former defence minister Jaswant Singh had stated in New Delhi that Gul was a Pakistani jehadi commander who was escorted to the Line of Control by his masters after he had escaped from the Charar-e-Sharif dargah. Jaswant Singh’s remarks were significant given the fact that even 17 years after the incident, mystery surrounds it, particularly how Mast Gul had managed to escape first from the shrine and then from the Valley to surface in Pakistan.
As he resurfaced in Rawalpindi, he was introduced as a key commander of the Hizbul Mujahideen (HuM) and given a hero’s welcome by the Jamaat-e-Islami, which showcased him at its public meetings.
Hizbul Mujahideen (HuM) is considered to be the militant wing of the Jamaat whose ameer Munawar Hasan had to face criticism from the Pakistan Army spokesman for giving certificate of martyrdom to Hakeemullah Mehsud and deriding Pakistani soldiers who sacrificed their lives in the war against terrorists. Although the TTP had denied its involvement in the Tuesday’s suicide bombing at Pak Hotel in Koocha Risaldar locality of Peshawar, Hasaan Swati told reporters in the Miranshah area of North Waziristan that the attack had been carried out to avenge an attack on a seminary (Madrassah Taleemul Quran) in Rawalpindi in November 2013. “The attack was carried out to fulfill the wish of the central deputy ameer of TTP Sheikh Khalid Haqqani to avenge the death of innocent madrassah students,” Hasaan Swati said.
A day earlier, TTP spokesman Shahidullah Shahid had claimed that his group had nothing to do with the Peshawar bombing and that it was an attempt to sabotage the peace talks. While Shahidullah has not yet retracted Hasaan Swati’s responsibility claim, the reason for Gul’s joining hands with the Taliban to kill innocent civilians in suicide bombings is unknown. But what is known about him is that the 47-year-old jehadi commander had narrowly survived an ambush near Peshawar on August 31, 2003 and subsequently abandoned his hometown.
Mast Gul sustained facial injuries by the spray of shards of his car’s window.
In the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks in the US and the subsequent U-turn taken by the Pakistani establishment with regard to Kashmir jehad, Mast Gul fell out of favour with his intelligence handlers. He subsequently joined another jehadi group striving for the liberation of Jammu & Kashmir - Al Umar Mujahideen (AuM) - led by Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar, an Indian national hailing from Srinagar. Zargar was freed by the Indian government in 2000 along with Maulana Masood Azhar (of Jasih-e-Mohammad) and Sheikh Ahmed Omar Saeed (US journalist Daniel Pearl’s convicted killer) following a plane hijacking.
The stated mission of Al Umar Mujahideen was to reinvigorate armed struggle in J&K. Mast Gul declared in ensuing statements that his goal was to liberate Jammu and Kashmir through armed struggle. “My own resolve is to liberate Kashmir and seek its accession to Pakistan as a prelude to make it a part of Islamic caliphate,” he said in an interview. But little was known about his whereabouts since then, amid conflicting reports that he had joined hands with the Afghan Taliban in Afghanistan. But it has now transpired that the former freedom fighter has already joined hands with the enemies of the state, like some other assets of intelligence establishment, like Commander Ilyas Kashmiri.

 

[Porus]

Pakistan, specifically ISI created the Taliban against the Russians: This is probably the most oft repeated myth about the Taliban, admittedly Pakistan along with the US supported the Afghan Mujahideen during the war with the Soviets, both the US and Pakistan never supported the Taliban during the war, because they had yet to come into existence. After the Soviet defeat there were two major factions of Mujahideen, one was Hekmatyar's faction and the other was Ahmad Masoodi's , both were competing for Kabul, after Masoodi succeeded in taking Kabul the Taliban emerged against him and ultimately drove him out of the city, this account is repeated in several books on the topic. In the book ''Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia'' the writer writes: "A handful of Taliban had fought the Soviet Red Army in the 1980s... the vast majority had never fought the communists and were young students.....''

ISI may not be the creator of Talebans but it definitely took them under its patronage when it ditched Hikmatyar in favour of the Talebans. The tried and tested old friend of ISI had remained unable in capturing Kabul from the forces of Massoud and initial successes of the the newly emerging force from Qandahar were commendable.

The Talebans were former madrasa-educated Mujahedeen. In 1994 under the leadership of Mulla Omar they cleansed the violence and crime ridden Qandahar from the oppression of various warlords who were fighting each other for their suzerainty over the city. After their initial success thousands of students from Pakistani madrasas flocked towards southern Afghanistan to join the Talebans, these students had no previous combat experience. The Talebans attracted the attention of the then interior minister of Pakistan Naseerullah Babar when they rescued a Pakistani trade convoy from an Afghan warlord Amir Lalai on the outskirts of Qandahar. Between 1994 and 1996 both the Talebans and Hizb e Islami received financial and military assistance from ISI and IB but in 1996 they had completely abandoned Hekmatyar for Talebans.

The conclusion: Talebans could have never grown into an organized fighting force without the financial and military assistance provided to them by Pakistan.

 

[CENTCOM]

Just this morning I witnessed a video that showed a bunch of ruthless humans, after watching the video I will hate to even call them humans, playing soccer with heads of some of the FC soldiers they had beheaded while they were in the TTP’s custody. Is this not the height of un-humanness? We can keep arguing about the myths that surround these sub-humans but the fact remains that they have killed over 50,000 Pakistanis. We should all question which “sharia” allows desecration of human remains and playing soccer with the heads of another being? It is so surprising that there are some people here who still have soft corners for the vicious TTP goons. The only option for the terrorists is to now renounce violence completely and become a productive member of the Pakistani societies. Otherwise get ready to be completely eliminated as there is no third option remaining for them now.


Abdul Quddus
DET- United States Central Command
www.centcom.mil/ur

 

[batmannow]

Just this morning I witnessed a video that showed a bunch of ruthless humans, after watching the video I will hate to even call them humans, playing soccer with heads of some of the FC soldiers they had beheaded while they were in the TTP’s custody. Is this not the height of un-humanness? We can keep arguing about the myths that surround these sub-humans but the fact remains that they have killed over 50,000 Pakistanis. We should all question which “sharia” allows desecration of human remains and playing soccer with the heads of another being? It is so surprising that there are some people here who still have soft corners for the vicious TTP goons. The only option for the terrorists is to now renounce violence completely and become a productive member of the Pakistani societies. Otherwise get ready to be completely eliminated as there is no third option remaining for them now.


Abdul Quddus
DET- United States Central Command
www.centcom.mil/ur

agreed 10000%?
what next, you wana think, i mean pre/emptive!
we are ready, but you guys a got lose end in WH? lolzzz

 

[Khan_patriot]

Spot on brother. I have to commend you first for an excellent post and I loved the whole "busting the myth" facts. Many of our people simply do not understand or want to understand that the present TTP led insurgency has been in the making for the past 30 years. It stated off as a type of benign cancer that had its growth accelerated by certain events. It's nonsense to suggest that recent events e.g. 9/11 immediately kicked off the orgy of violence. Small, low level militant violence has always been there, especially with the advent of thousands of foreign fighters who settled in FATA and the spreading of a more virulent, extreme form of Dawah,which was at odds against the traditional Sufi Islam practiced by the masses. This sadly laid down the seeds of rebellion for the future and if conflict erupted then no problem as to them they are following the truth, in a sea of ignorance.

Thanks mate, I hope I can keep more thought provoking posts coming...

 

[Khan_patriot]

@Khan_patriot: My friend, you got a good post up there. To your already comprehensive list of myths, I would like to add one more myth:

ISI/PA betrayed Taliban.

It is one of those guesses (or disinformation) that is repeated so often that it got a status of fact. However, the fact of the matter is, in the wake of 9/11 and upon Bush administration's demand of handing OBL over to them, the GoP and ISI did try their best cajoling Taliban to alienate themselves from Al-Qaida elements. Several high ranking Pakistani officials visited Kabul to convince Mullah Omar but he and his shoorah refused to budge. Taliban asked for proof of OBL involvement in 9/11, which was a legitimate demand. However, US was infuriated, and unwilling to pay heed to this pretty logical request. A middle-of-the-way solution could have been to hand over OBL to the UN, and let him prove his innocence in the International Court of Justice. At any rate, Taliban refused to handover OBL to US (or UN for that matter), and vouched to fight against the invading coalition forces alongside Al-Qaida elements. In that scenario, it was simply not possible for Pakistan to take side with Taliban, nor could she stayed neutral given the US enragement, and UN resolutions. Pakistan tried to diffuse the situation, and that is all she could do given the circumstances. Pakistan did not abandon Taliban, but Taliban abandoned Pakistan by not listening to Pakistan and the international community.

Now regarding Afghanistan become like a watan for taliban sort of sentiments, Afghanistan was their watan, because an overwhelming majority of Taliban was (still is) Afghan, not Pakistani. Now they can enrage for whatever reason (in fact their entire history is full of enragement and beheading of each other, so what is new?) but Pakistan is a member of the UN, and has to fulfill her duties as a member state. For the fear of Taliban enragement, Pakistan cant become Imarat Islami Afghanistan and get itself destroyed in the process.

One more thing I would like to add regarding the last myth - TTP is a Pukhtoon phenomenon. While TTP (alias JI/JUI) terrorists come is all colors, shapes, and flavors, an overwhelming majority of TTP terrorists and particularly its top leadership is of Pashtoon origin. The type of shariah (which is nothing but a cover) they talk about is also a religious manifestation of Afghan Pashtoon tribal way-of-life, where women live slave-like life, and modern education is considered interference in culture and religion. So, even though TTP (alias JI/JUI) is not 100% pashtoon phenomenon 95% it is, or in other words, most Pashtoon are not Taliban, but a but a majority of Taliban is Pashtoon.

Thanks for busting yet another myth, I too was guilty of believing the myth about the ISI's abandonment and sadly you are right about a majority of the TTP being Pukhtoon but I am against the argument that all if them are Pukhtoons, ultimately TTP is a religious ideology that follows a very perverted version of Islam.....