Myths about the Taliban

[batmannow]

Yes Stingers came almost at last phase of war when pretty much Russians were already defeated Mr

Mr yes money came from USA but mostly came from Saudis and other Middle east countries

dam it, why then stinggers were needed?
you dont have any goddammed idea, about that, right?
ever been hunted by a flying hell called HIND gunships?

 

[Mav3rick]

I have searched it and I have inside information most money came from Saudis and Arab states not USA USA only has taken more credit

SA committed $ to $ against US investment in Mujahideen. Arms were purchased from as far as Israel.

I think you need to revisit the history of the Taliban. They were largely founded by the ISI in 1994. The ISI used the Taliban to establish a regime in Afghanistan which would be favorable to Pakistan. Since the creation of the Taliban, the ISI and the Pakistani Army have given it financial, logistical and military support.

Incorrect. Talibaan movement was formed independently to unite the Mujahideen under 1 umbrella and to crush the corrupt warlord system that was prevalent after the Soviet withdrawal, it all started from 1 Maderessa in Afghanistan. Pakistan helped further develop Talibaan as there was no other option, they were gaining support with and without us, we merely acted as a catalyst as a stable Afghanistan, under 1 authority, is in our best interest.

Read the following books for a better understanding of the Taliban. All can't be said to be 'Western propaganda'!

Shaffer, Brenda (2006). The limits of culture: Islam and foreign policy.

Forsythe, David P. (2009). Encyclopedia of human rights (Volume 1 ed.). Oxford University Press. p. 2. "In 1994 the Taliban was created, funded and inspired by Pakistan."

Gardner, Hall (2007). American global strategy and the 'war on terrorism'.

Jones, Owen Bennett (2003). Pakistan: eye of the storm.

Randal, Jonathan (2005). Osama: The Making of a Terrorist.

Peiman, Hooman (2003). Falling Terrorism and Rising Conflicts.

Hilali, A. Z. (2005). US-Pakistan relationship: Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Rumer, Boris Z. (2002). Central Asia: a gathering storm?

Have you actually read all those books?

Yes Stingers came almost at last phase of war when pretty much Russians were already defeated Mr

Stingers came at the last phase when the Russians were already defeated? You are one special child!

Stingers were the weapons system that changed the whole outcome of the Soviet invasion as before Stingers the Mujahideen had absolutely no answer to Russian attack helos and almost no answer to Russian Armoured Divisions. The stingers changed the whole battlefield as now the Russians were no longer safe in the Air.

If the Talibaan had access to weapons that could down the US helos, the US would have been defeated even more convincingly and a lot earlier at that too.

 

[Mav3rick]

Abd unicorns are real right?

Yes they are, @Zarvan has 2 of them and he will get another 72 in the afterlife.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

talibitches are talibitches skunk of this world destined to get fucked upside down they will rot in the depths of helll
now these are facts

 

[Hyperion]

Ok... have to give it to you........ this was a great reply........ whole heartedly agree that Taliban is Deobandi Religion in disguise (I don't call it Islam, not even by a long shot, it's a separate religion in itself), which was raped by Salafist Agenda (similarly, Salafism / Wahabism is more of an agenda than a sect).......

Racial and cultural traits of taliban are pashtun but their mindset and ideology is of deoband. It is open to any sunni muslim. Thats why you see arabs, chechens, uzbebs, tajiks, punjabis, kashmiris etc in their ranks.
If blame is on pashtuns for producing taliban movement, then entire deoband school of thought should also be blamed.
My questions for @syedali73 aka Mr.khomeni
1- The beheading practice in the videos, does arab and uzbeks of alqaida started it or it is a historic pashtun tradition?
2- Suicide bombings, arabs of alqaida introduced it into afg-pak and rest of the world or it was already a custom among pakhtuns since milinia?
3- Hijab was introduced by islam or pashtuns?....
4- lashes and stoning on zinna are hadood or they are pashtun cultural practices?

Read @Pak-one's reply............ "the" menace throughout our history has been the same...... it has just changed it's skin....... you may have known Taliban earlier as SSP... then LeJ..... and then Taliban.......... they may have all held different titles through out our history, however, their creators were one of the same...... so was their target, from day one..... minorities....... If you want to blame anyone, blame Deobandi's and their Salafist masters..


Now start your analysis again....... think who all these groups have been targeting persistently since the 80's? If the motive remains the same through 80's - 2000's, then it has been commited by the same group...... i.e Salafist funded Deobandi's.

In light of the recent attempts by the Pakistani government to solve the dissent with the Therik-e-Taliban Pakistan
(TTP) by negotiating with them several myths about the faction have reemerged both in popular media as well as among TTP apologists.Some of these myths are unfortunately believed by some ''enlightened individuals'' as well so I try a humble attempt to debunk the most commonly believed ones....

• Pakistan, specifically ISI created the Taliban against the Russians: This is probably the most oft repeated myth about the Taliban, admittedly Pakistan along with the US supported the Afghan Mujahideen during the war with the Soviets, both the US and Pakistan never supported the Taliban during the war, because they had yet to come into existence. After the Soviet defeat there were two major factions of Mujahideen, one was Hekmatyar's faction and the other was Ahmad Masoodi's , both were competing for Kabul, after Masoodi succeeded in taking Kabul the Taliban emerged against him and ultimately drove him out of the city, this account is repeated in several books on the topic. In the book ''Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia'' the writer writes: "A handful of Taliban had fought the Soviet Red Army in the 1980s... the vast majority had never fought the communists and were young students.....''
• There were no terrorist or sectarian incidents before 9/11: This is one myth I would love to believe, unfortunately I no longer do, the truth is Pakistan was suffering from sectarian as well as terrorist incidents since the 80's and 90's, for example:
  1990: The Iranian Counsel General in Lahore, Sadeq Ganji, was assassinated.
  1994: 15 persons are killed and 17 others injured as Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM) cadres and security forces clash in the NWFP region.
  1996: A suicide bomber drives a vehicle into the Egyptian Embassy compound in Islamabad, killing at least 16 and injuring 60 persons.
  1998:Members of the Baluchistan Students Federation (BSF) hijack a Pakistan International Airlines aircraft and attempt to land in India.
  The list of terrorist incidents continues but some of the major ones have been highlighted, note that the terror incidents picked up pace during the Zia rule.
• The TTP has a genuine interest in peace talks: This is one myth I would have liked to be debunked when the Taliban broke their first negotiated deals unfortunately it still survives. There have been several deals with the TTP from 2004 to 2009 and all have unanimously resulted with the TTP spreading its influence to adjoining areas, further strengthening and rearming of militants, ultimately the terms of negotiations were broken and the peace deals ended.
• TTP will stop pursuing its agenda if peace talks succeed: This could not be further from the truth, all the commanders of TTP from Bait Ullah to Fazal Ullah have claimed in several videos that they will establish a Caliphate in Pakistan and will not stop until they achieve their ''divine mission'', it also supports the conclusion that the TTP will never stop and will use any negotiated peace to regroup, rearm and resupply so they can wage another campaign of terror in the country.
• A military operation has lasted a decade without results: This one is particularly very popular among the pro-militant masses as well as some politicians. This is also one myth that must be debunked. What its believers need to realize is that the Pakistan Army is one of the most professional, battle hardened and tested armies in the world, some rag tag group of militants can never hold its own against it during an all out assault. It has proven itself on several occasions, the most exemplary operation was in Swat and adjoining areas. 4 agencies of FATA have also been cleared by the army while not costing any casualties that were not expected.
• Drones are responsible for TTP recruiting the youth of the tribal areas: This may be true for some men joining the ranks of the Taliban but it certainly does not account for all of them. If one considers relatives being murdered as a major cause of Taliban recruitment then common sense dictates that there must also be strong anti-Taliban sentiments among the group of the population whose relatives have been killed and executed by the Taliban, now surveys show that 10 times more people have been killed by the Taliban than those killed by all the drones combined. According to estimates there are 30-35000 TTP operatives so one can assume that over 300,000 anti-Taliban people, whose relatives have been killed by the Taliban reside in the tribal areas as well.
• TTP is a Pukhtoon phenomenon: This one is also popular not necessarily among the terror sympathizers but among some mypoic leaders, and some racist individuals, the conflict being painted along ethnic lines is the last thing that the country needs, it will be disastrous for the war effort that is certain to start anyday.
• Here I have tried to debunk some of the most common myth believed by TTP sympathizers to be true. There are some other beliefs as well but they are not as common or cant be debunked with the use of logic and evidence.​

What are your thoughts:
@EyanKhan @batmannow @waz @Armstrong @Talon @Hyperion @Alpha1 @A.Rafay

 

[Armstrong]

Ok... have to give it to you........ this was a great reply........ whole heartedly agree that Taliban is Deobandi Religion in disguise (I don't call it Islam, not even by a long shot, it's a separate religion in itself), which was raped by Salafist Agenda (similarly, Salafism / Wahabism is more of an agenda than a sect).......

I think Pukhtoons have started wearing Bangles & Skirts otherwise how could a Warrior Culture not only tolerate such impudence in their midst but also provide erstwhile supporters to their cause !

Ahhhh I suppose a Kashmiri like myself would need to step in to make things right !

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

the people in Lal masjid were involved in militant activities , he did not betray anyone.
Btw what your point if they were taliban or not ?? Lets go by your logic and say they were not what then? Still does not change the fact that they are animals and need to eliminated.


by hardcore i meant your Salafi/wahabi version of islam

Its ahle-hadith who are wahabis/salafis in pakistan, kindly dont confuse them with deoband school of thought. We pashtuns are mostly deobandis, we are considered strict by bareilvis as we are more practical in faraiz and do not have bidaa that are common among bareilvis.....
Taliban is not the first jihadi movement among pashtuns. In early 19th century syed ahmad bareilvi , a follower of abdul wahab, initiated jihad in pakhtunkhwa against sikhs and to liberate hindostan. In akbar times pir rokhan started a religous movement and jihad against mughals...in late 19th century and early 20th century several mullahs started jihad against british.
Pashtuns are the only people in subcontinent who have history of jihadi movements before 1947.

 

[Hyperion]

Deobandi's are hired guns for Salafists....... one of the same if you ask me........... both are rabid versions..........

Its ahle-hadith who are wahabis/salafis in pakistan, kindly dont confuse them with deoband school of thought. We pashtuns are mostly deobandis, we are considered strict by bareilvis as we are more practical in faraiz and do not have bidaa that are common among bareilvis.....
Taliban is not the first jihadi movement among pashtuns. In early 19th century syed ahmad bareilvi , a follower of abdul wahab, initiated jihad in pakhtunkhwa against sikhs and to liberate hindostan. In akbar times pir rokhan started a religous movement and jihad against mughals...in late 19th century and early 20th century several mullahs started jihad against british.
Pashtuns are the only people in subcontinent who have history of jihadi movements before 1947.

 

[Zarvan]

Deobandi's are hired guns for Salafists....... one of the same if you ask me........... both are rabid versions..........

If you want to prove some one wrong prove through Quran and Sunnat not your personal Bullshit
@Pak-one

 

[Hyperion]

Chall bey.... what has history got to do with Quran or Sunnah? You seriously need help, my bearded buffoon!

If you want to prove some one wrong prove through Quran and Sunnat not your personal Bullshit
@Pak-one

 

[Zarvan]

Chall bey.... what has history got to do with Quran or Sunnah? You seriously need help, my bearded buffoon!

Mr read books of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab and prove one thing he said which is not according to Quran and Sunnah its you who need to help who can't prove single point wrong through Quran and Sunnah but only want to talk shit as always

 

[Hyperion]

La la la ... gaa gaa goo gooo....

Mr read books of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab and prove one thing he said which is not according to Quran and Sunnah its you who need to help who can't prove single point wrong through Quran and Sunnah but only want to talk shit as always

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Deobandi's are hired guns for Salafists....... one of the same if you ask me........... both are rabid versions..........

Deobandis are simply hanafis, unlike wahabis they have concept of taqleed and tasawuf. Salafis are the ones who label every thing kufr and justify killings of other muslims for various reasons. They are messed up people. Taliban are deobandis with influences of salafi arabs on them. But there are actually full wahabi taliban, the panjpiris . Fazlullah , sufi mohmammad, maulvi faqir mohmamad are panjpiri wahabis, thats why they were showing over efficiency in swat.
Hyperion you claim to be a sufi. There is sufism in deoband maslak, so come back to your roots

 

[syedali73]

Mr read books of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab and prove one thing he said which is not according to Quran and Sunnah its you who need to help who can't prove single point wrong through Quran and Sunnah but only want to talk shit as always

Tell me one thing that munafiq-e-azam Abdullah bin Obai said and it was not according to Quan or Sunnah? Tell me one thing that Kharijis said and it was not according to Quran and Sunnah? It is not that simple as you are trying to put it. Moawiah went for war against Ali and many sahaba were on both the sides. However, Moawaih belonged to the rebels-of-the state group and there are no two opinions on that. Nothing can justify his acts, which resulted in the loss of hundreds of Muslims from both the sides, and many of the sohaba. Now before you label me as a Shia, I tell you that I belong to Sunni Hanafi maslak of thought, and following teachings of Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (RA), hence a Deobandi.

There is sufism in deoband maslak

There is no sufism in maslak e Deoband, not the sufism without following shariah. In maslak e Deoband, shariah comes first, and tareeqah later.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Tell me one thing that munafiq-e-azam Abdullah bin Obai said and it was not according to Quan or Sunnah? Tell me one thing that Kharijis said and it was not according to Quran and Sunnah? It is not that simple as you are trying to put it. Moawiah went for war against Ali and many sahaba were on both the sides. However, Moawaih belonged to the rebels-of-the state group and there are no two opinions on that. Nothing can justify his acts, which resulted in the loss of hundreds of Muslims from both the sides, and many of the sohaba.

Khomeni, kindly dont bring hazrat Ali and hazrat amir muawiya war into the discussion.