Myanmar General Discussion (non military)

[Reashot Xigwin]

What is the decision?

Putting them in concentration camp till they reclassify themselves as "Bengali." That's pretty much the gist of it.

 

[TopCat]

Putting them in concentration camp till they reclassify themselves as "Bengali." That's pretty much the gist of it.

They have to be Bengali to remain in Burma. I dont know how people do deal with those Burmese Jokers!!!

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

They have to be Bengali to remain in Burma. I dont know how people do deal with those Burmese Jokers!!!

"Remain" is the word. They basically get a limited citizenship if they chose to do so (as oppose to Full citizenship which granted all the amenities that most SOB like us took for granted.)

 

[Aepsilons]

"Remain" is the word. They basically get a limited citizenship if they chose to do so (as oppose to Full citizenship which granted all the amenities that most SOB like us took for granted.)

Hi buddy, the Indonesian government does not treat natives in Irian Jaya like this do they? I know they are racially different from Javanese or Sundanese.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Hi buddy, the Indonesian government does not treat natives in Irian Jaya like this do they? I know they are racially different from Javanese or Sundanese.

Depend on who you ask. Me, I will tell you straight up that we actually been treating the Papuan people like crap or neglecting them for the last half century. One reason why I have my reservation about the central government. Of course there's been astronomical improvement (due to lack of it) over the last decade. More Papuan are now represented in the government and the public than ever before:

Balthazar Kambuaya Minister of Environment.

Boaz Solossa was captain for the match against Qatar.

Now there's movie starring Papuan actor:

Hans, a young man from Serui, Papua, has a dream of becoming a professional football player. Yet fate has a different agenda, when Hans almost loses his will to live he meets Mak, owner of a humble Minangnese restaurant (lapau). In the midst of their differences, Hans and Mak find their similarities. Dreams and the passion for living are once more ignited in Hans through food and cooking—food is the goodwill that unites them

Now on Theaters - Tabula Rasa Film

But to me how Indonesian treat the papuans will be forever associated with this picture:

The central government can do more to help the Papuan people as a whole they just do a really half *** job at it.

Over all the West Papuans are at "least" better compared to their eastern brethren & they're not a really good standard to set on in the first place.

 

[TopCat]

Depend on who you ask. Me, I will tell you straight up that we actually been treating the Papuan people like crap or neglecting them for the last half century. One reason why I have my reservation about the central government. Of course there's been astronomical improvement (due to lack of it) over the last decade. More Papuan are now represented in the government and the public than ever before:

Balthazar Kambuaya Minister of Environment.

Boaz Solossa was captain for the match against Qatar.

Now there's movie starring Papuan actor:

Now on Theaters - Tabula Rasa Film

But to me how Indonesian treat the papuans will be forever associated with this picture:

The central government can do more to help the Papuan people as a whole they just do a really half *** job at it.

Over all the West Papuans are at "least" better compared to their eastern brethren & they're not a really good standard to set on in the first place.

But I am sure Papuans have friends in Indonesian civil society and people will come out to defend their rights. But in Burma, the entire society from top to bottom has no values and norms of modern world order. Not a single person, politician or civil society ever came out and said in favor of Rohingya's rights in that country.

 

[Aepsilons]

Depend on who you ask. Me, I will tell you straight up that we actually been treating the Papuan people like crap or neglecting them for the last half century. One reason why I have my reservation about the central government. Of course there's been astronomical improvement (due to lack of it) over the last decade. More Papuan are now represented in the government and the public than ever before:

Balthazar Kambuaya Minister of Environment.


Boaz Solossa was captain for the match against Qatar.

Now there's movie starring Papuan actor:



Now on Theaters - Tabula Rasa Film

But to me how Indonesian treat the papuans will be forever associated with this picture:

The central government can do more to help the Papuan people as a whole they just do a really half *** job at it.

Over all the West Papuans are at "least" better compared to their eastern brethren & they're not a really good standard to set on in the first place.

I'm actually very happy to see that the Indonesian Government has really improved its policy towards the minorities in the Republic. I really am amazed how much Indonesia has matured and implemented a policy of National Inclusivity for all minorities (i think there are over 1000 minorities in Indonesia). Indonesia is an example of how: 1) Islam Majority, 2) Multicultural-Multiethnicity-Multiraciality, 3) Republican Democracy; can work out in the end.

Upon research of Irian Jaya's development, I am really impressed with Jakarta's policies of developing the island (West Papua / Irian Jaya). I saw some pictures of Jayapura and was awed at how its developed. To imagine back in 1998 this was a war torn area.

 

[Aepsilons]

Not so sure. Isuzu is prosperous in Thailand. I heard that Isuzu is out-compete from Japan market, is that true?

Yea, its a major auto/bike manufacturer and we've practically offshored majority of its production from Japan to overseas. China and ASEAN are major sites for its offshore facilities; with Thailand receiving lion's share in ASEAN. I just remember reading an article a year ago about how Isuzu and other companies (if my memory serves me right, they include Aiwa, Dowa Hightech, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, Kawasaki ) were to expand there.

 

[alaungphaya]

I'm not a Burmese and neither do I read the language. Somehow I just acquired a great interest in Sino-Tibetan and Tibeto-Burman related minority issues a few months back and like to read up on them when I have free times. Perhaps someday, as a personal hobby, I'll chart them when I gain enough information.

I recommend mingalapar.com if you wish to interact with Burmese in English though even that is limited in scope.

I would say your idea is good.
yet for countries with great population in poor states, like China, Myanmar, Bangladesh,
this kind of sweatshop is a must stage..
At least it bring jobs and money.When your countries develops, the salary will increase and life will be better..
This is what happening in China, after 20 years of sweatshop time, salary is increasing very fast, life improves a lot
Otherwise, you will be like India, only minority is rich, majority is so poor..
Also big projects like what China invest today is very helpful for economy.
It will bring money and jobs in very short time.

agriculture is feeding people but not going to make people rich..
Industries are necessary part of modern life

This is what I am contending. This 'sweatshop' stage is not a necessary condition anymore. The marginal returns to labour from these ventures are becoming smaller and smaller and thus the paradigm of an export led economy built around a labour intensive manufacturing sector (which was first modeled and theorised by a Burmese economist incidentally), is beginning to shift. So it's unwise, in my opinion, to put all the eggs into this basket.

The paradigm with agriculture, on the other hand, is that its relative price declines against manufactured goods. Something that held for most of the 19th and 20th century. But the 15 year commodity boom has made a lot of people question this. The world's population is growing larger and larger and are demanding more food (specifically food that requires greater gross calorific input such as meat) and this is a boon for countries with large agricultural capacity.

Thirdly, despite our poverty, we are a very literate country so any investments that take advantage of this sector will have an impressive return. However, we are not an educated country as it was the policy of the military government to systematically destroy the tertiary education system which produced the intelligentsia class that threatened their rule (what happened in the Soviet Union and what is happening now in China). So we have to be patient on that front.

 

[alaungphaya]

It is not like Myanmar , as an underdeveloped state, has the blessings of picking and choosing investment opportunities. It simply receives what is thrown at her. Besides, the average wage in Myanmar (Burma) is so about 1/3rd an average Thai gets paid. In the event that there are offshoring seen in that country, as in any other underdeveloped Southeast Asian states such as Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam; the cost to operate will be quite appreciable to said investor. Industrialization is key, and as you mentioned, it is a "must". Let us take for example Thailand. During the 1970s Thailand was not an industrial center, but after over 3 decades of investment, it is one of the major manufacturing centers in ASEAN; with a high gdp per capita as compared to say Laos, Vietnam, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines.

You've just seen several topics on this forum which indicated the opposite. We are not desperate for inward investment particularly in infrastructure projects. That is why so many Chinese projects get cancelled. That's why we have resisted similar offers from other countries. If we are beggars rather than takes, our finance sector would not be so closed (as I've said before a massive drag on FDI). There are reasons for this. Only recently have foreign banks being given bank licences and they have a very small scope in what they can do. F*ck, it's still very difficult to transfer money into Myanmar from abroad. Not really a characteristic of a country that has to take what it's given.

Currently Thailand is trying to established a new industrial environment at Myanmar's Dawai. I guess it would be those oil& gas thing because Indian Ocean direct to Bangkok. If so, there will be a lot of investment by Oil related industries. So soon, Myanmar also become industrialized. I guess if this project complete, does it means we do not have to pay Singapore as middle man for oil?

Dawei is more of an all purpose SEZ rather than just for oil and gas terminals. Dawei has a deep sea port so it makes sense. BTW what is going on on the Thai side? Your boys are being very shy about 'showing the money'. But yes, Singapore's position as Asia's middleman is somewhat threatened by a reemergent Myanmar. To think, that snake Lee Kwan Yew used to suck up to the socialist leaders of Burma (even Ne Win) when Singapore was a crap hole and he was a socialist.

But I am sure Papuans have friends in Indonesian civil society and people will come out to defend their rights. But in Burma, the entire society from top to bottom has no values and norms of modern world order. Not a single person, politician or civil society ever came out and said in favor of Rohingya's rights in that country.

The difference is that Papua belongs to Papuans and the Indonesians are the interlopers. Arakan belongs to the Arakanese and Bengalis are the interlopers. Hence there is no comparison. Everyone else has plenty of representation in the new democratic framework. There's even a separate hluttaw (parliament) do deal with ethnic issues. The point is that as these Rohingya are intruders, they do not have the same level of representation and if they did it would be political suicide for anyone who suggested this.

 

[hans]

As I said, what you says seems good.
But you don`t realize the difficulties of developing. It is not realistic.
China developed for 20 years and still many people in poor.
When so many people still in poor, why not give them a job and make them at least better than right now.
The agriculture that makes money is like US agriculture, big farm, high volume and very low price.
The normal village style is not going to work.

I recommend mingalapar.com if you wish to interact with Burmese in English though even that is limited in scope.

This is what I am contending. This 'sweatshop' stage is not a necessary condition anymore. The marginal returns to labour from these ventures are becoming smaller and smaller and thus the paradigm of an export led economy built around a labour intensive manufacturing sector (which was first modeled and theorised by a Burmese economist incidentally), is beginning to shift. So it's unwise, in my opinion, to put all the eggs into this basket.

The paradigm with agriculture, on the other hand, is that its relative price declines against manufactured goods. Something that held for most of the 19th and 20th century. But the 15 year commodity boom has made a lot of people question this. The world's population is growing larger and larger and are demanding more food (specifically food that requires greater gross calorific input such as meat) and this is a boon for countries with large agricultural capacity.

Thirdly, despite our poverty, we are a very literate country so any investments that take advantage of this sector will have an impressive return. However, we are not an educated country as it was the policy of the military government to systematically destroy the tertiary education system which produced the intelligentsia class that threatened their rule (what happened in the Soviet Union and what is happening now in China). So we have to be patient on that front.

 

[TopCat]

The difference is that Papua belongs to Papuans and the Indonesians are the interlopers. Arakan belongs to the Arakanese and Bengalis are the interlopers. Hence there is no comparison. Everyone else has plenty of representation in the new democratic framework. There's even a separate hluttaw (parliament) do deal with ethnic issues. The point is that as these Rohingya are intruders, they do not have the same level of representation and if they did it would be political suicide for anyone who suggested this.

Rohingyas are Arakanese, changing name from Arakan to Rakhaine does not make them interlopers for your convenience.

 

[TopCat]

As I said, what you says seems good.
But you don`t realize the difficulties of developing. It is not realistic.
China developed for 20 years and still many people in poor.
When so many people still in poor, why not give them a job and make them at least better than right now.
The agriculture that makes money is like US agriculture, big farm, high volume and very low price.
The normal village style is not going to work.

Hehehe... That burmese does'nt understand that a country cant skip a stage to graduate itself to a middle income let alone developed country. Japan Korea China all had to go through that.
Besides, agri products are controlled market and most of the countries are now more or less self sufficient in food production. You cant just over produce and find a buyer for it. Jute is a prime example for us.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

The difference is that Papua belongs to Papuans and the Indonesians are the interlopers. Arakan belongs to the Arakanese and Bengalis are the interlopers. Hence there is no comparison. Everyone else has plenty of representation in the new democratic framework. There's even a separate hluttaw (parliament) do deal with ethnic issues. The point is that as these Rohingya are intruders, they do not have the same level of representation and if they did it would be political suicide for anyone who suggested this.

Whether or not they're interlopers (a bold claim given that most them have roots goes back hundreds of years.) Does not excuse your government from treating them like the "jews." (concentration camp and apartheid like policy.)

 

[alaungphaya]

As I said, what you says seems good.
But you don`t realize the difficulties of developing. It is not realistic.
China developed for 20 years and still many people in poor.
When so many people still in poor, why not give them a job and make them at least better than right now.
The agriculture that makes money is like US agriculture, big farm, high volume and very low price.
The normal village style is not going to work.

I know a thing or two about development.

My point is that we can't follow the same path China or the other tigers took simply because the global economy will not be receptive to. Anyway, I think you don't really understand my argument so we'll leave it there (no blame to you, it's quite a subtle argument).

Rohingyas are Arakanese, changing name from Arakan to Rakhaine does not make them interlopers for your convenience.

No they're not. You know they're not but you're not brave enough to admit it because you're an idiot Bangladeshi.

Also, Yakhine is the Burmese for Arakan. How is that relevant to anything? What are you talking about?

Hehehe... That burmese does'nt understand that a country cant skip a stage to graduate itself to a middle income let alone developed country. Japan Korea China all had to go through that.
Besides, agri products are controlled market and most of the countries are now more or less self sufficient in food production. You cant just over produce and find a buyer for it. Jute is a prime example for us.

You're misunderstanding my point as well. It's not about skipping steps (although if you want to get technical Australia and Canada skipped a step). Most counties are far from food self-sufficient.

Whether or not they're interlopers (a bold claim given that most them have roots goes back hundreds of years.) Does not excuse your government from treating them like the "jews." (concentration camp and apartheid like policy.)

You're right but the situation has gone beyond critical.