My take on the recent escalation in Kashmir and the Long-march. Thougts?

[Spring Onion]

I don't think either side wants US involvement in this situation but China should use its influence to bring both sides to talk this out diplomatically.

China does not indulge in any one-sided infulence. it always came up with a balanced advice for both.

As far as US is concerned i personally feel depending on right time and its own interests ultimate US involvement will be there since the region is important for US as well keeping in Mind China

 

[KS]

I don't think either side wants US involvement in this situation but China should use its influence to bring both sides to talk this out diplomatically.

Pakistan is OK with any third party. India the diametric opposite. No third party.

China does not indulge in any one-sided infulence. it always came up with a balanced advice for both.

Oh ok...China did not one-sidedly transfer you nuke and missile tech Guess what, Chinese can keep their 'advice' to themselves, no offence to them.

 

[indushek]

America and Pakistan have been military partners (directly) for over a decade, coordinating military maneuvers and strategies as if they are in sync.

This is the time to decimate the Russia-India alliance by taking some serious diplomatic steps.

It is in America's interest to cement a place in all Pakistanis' hearts by openly and unequivocally supporting Pakistan on the Kashmir issue.

All across the Muslim world (and the world, in general), Bush was hated, faced protests, burning of effigies and even greeted by a shoe in some places but in Albania, he was cheered on due to his stance on Kosovo.

If America wants to replace China, it has the best opportunity especially now, given that India has sided with Putin, which means Pakistani and American interests are aligned in this regard.

Also, the same can be said vis-a-vis Iran and Afghanistan (they can host their troops for China's containment if they choose to go against the so called "zero-option". They can do it just like in Saudi Arabia while respecting the local laws and customs that aren't any different in the two countries, Saudi and Afghanistan).

If the Indians don't give up Kashmir, we (Pakistanis amd Americans) should take it diplomatically like Kosovo and threaten them with unrest and protests like Tibet in China. The rape protests are a great example of shutting Delhi down.

The ex-soviet states and their colour revolutions like Orange should be exploited in India through the use of Sikhs, Tamils and the slogan of Azad Deccan should also keep the South Block in check, or, even go as far as to rid the subcontinent of the Indian menace like Yugoslavia in Europe and USSR before it.

I say carve 10 states out of India and put Manmohan in the history books like Tito. NATO was instrumental in doing that before, we can do that now as they are already here in the Hindu Kush.

China wouldn't mind as a rising Russia is also a threat while India had always been a menace. It will work!

In the end, the long march should be representative of a moderate government in place, if there is a move made to attack or invade Iran, from Pakistan. The reason it would only make sense to do so through a moderate government in power is that the individuals (MQM and Qadri) involved are not only acceptable to the West but also those sections of society that have a soft-corner for Iran.

Pakistan provided land and it's territory to dismantle and remove an extremist regime in Afghanistan, doing the same in Iran should be palatable.

Otherwise, if Pakistan is to stay away from America, then it would lose it's "special status" in the Russian-Chinese camp, as it is clear that Putin will always favor India given his historic position in the KGB.

Also, without Pakistan, America is doomed in the region as India, China, Iran, CIS and Russia are all going to be in one camp. America has no choice except to side with Pakistan and Pakistan, on the other hand, will need to benefit from it's potential status as the Israel of Central and South Asia. Forget the past and look at the benefits and interests of today - they are aligned - with America.

I also don't see China having a problem, as I've mentioned above, given the threat of Russian influence, especially in the Golden triangle states, and it will prefer the focus shifted from it for a few years, and the Pacific-shift, delayed or not focused on, as much. They already prefer to have secure borders with India, which is why the PLA chief ran to India after the Indians declined the Western bids (primarily due to the South Block's historic NAM stance).

On the other hand, Indians didn't have the capacity to do America's bidding in the region vis-a-vis China as they need to build an economy to support the poorest population in the world half of whom never saw power or sanitation.

India could have benefited from a relation with the West and sided with them against Libya and Syria, but it was hesitant, diplomatically. It only went against Iran due its own interest vis-a-vis the Nuclear deal with America.

What's more is that, they have millions of their expats hosted in the Gulf countries but even that didn't assist them in making the wise decision of siding with the West and Arabs. The Socialist-bias and the Congress following Nehru's pro-Russian stance has not gone despite benefiting from billions in IT dollars from the West.

But, given it's historical relationship, India made the right choice as Russia is a trusted partner for them, but going against America wasn't smart, either. Putin had to move indoors due to the rape protests similar to the ones started after the self-immolation in Tunisia.

Also, the campaign to malign Indians as "rapists", worldwide is at it's peak. Some Pakistanis find it to be a pay-back for Indians labeling Pakistanis as "terrorists" worldwide and you can already see social media glimmering with the thoughts of being able to malign Indians (NRIs, specifically) by calling them "rapists", just as they were unduly and unjustifiably called "terrorists" with the intent of causing torment and harm.

Your thoughts?

Dear Gotti welcome to the forum.

While i welcome the idea of expounding thoughts and ideas at one place, its not wise to do so with a multitude of them. Hope you get the drift of what i am saying. Its just that the reader's mind is clogged with excess of everything.

I request u to put forward a coherent theory like below

1) Initial explanation of what the topic is and the historical and present situation along with peripheral conditions effecting.

2) Next some facts and your theories within the limits of possiblity and if possible some past precedents.

3) Finally the solution and final comments.

Anyways regarding ur thoughts,

While its true that it is always in the interest of a country to have better relation with another, if u consider the present relations between Pakistan and America and the conditions prevailing do u realistically think that any break through is possible??

Pray tell me how Iran (i am not even talking about Afghanistan) would be willing to host American soldiers on their soil, sorry to say but this comment seems comical. Are u aware of the current relations between Iran and America?? Also did u imply that somehow if America becomes cosy once more with Pakistan Iran and Afghanistan will become friendly with America and host their bases??

Again u say something so preposterous as to provide the base for attack on Iran?? You think this is wise. You think they will be sit quiet and let u be??

The behavior of America should have told u by now that countries always work in their own interest and aren't tied down by ideologies or imaginary love.

Regarding China, u are making too many generalized comments, on one hand u say that they will end up in the same bloc as India and Russia and then again u say that they would prefer breakup of India by America and Pakistan as it will contain the rising Russian influence!!!

Finally ur take on India is very confusing to say the least. It is very nice of u to talk of diplomatic pressure upfront rather the military one with us combined with America, so u mean to say that if we don't give up kashmir u will break us up using the methods of orange revolution?? the reason USSR broke up was because of sinking ideology of Communism and state corruption and lack of personal freedom etc etc. Seeing India u should note that we don't have problem with freedom of speech except certain exceptions where the elite comes in. The widespread reports about the rape is an ample proof of a free talking society. There is unequitable distribution but we are opening our doors gradually to the world and Americans would rather do business with us and earn billions of dollars than break us up. Fighting corruption will go on, so while we have our problems we constantly are talking about it and trying to solve them.

As far as our foreign policy goes we always have taken decisions which benefit us not that benefit others, seems that u appreciate our effort to invest in Russia as u have said they are our historical partners truly.

 

[Spring Onion]

Pakistan is OK with any third party. India the diametric opposite. No third party.



Oh ok...China did not one-sidedly transfer you nuke and missile tech Guess what, Chinese can keep their 'advice' to themselves, no offence to them.

should china provide you the weapons as well?

thats an entirely different topic. i was talking about Chinese Policy viz a viz issuing statment on Kashmir

 

[KS]

last page post..

should china provide you the weapons as well?

thats an entirely different topic. i was talking about Chinese Policy viz a viz issuing statment on Kashmir

Yeah one sided China did not try the staped visa drama.

Madam even if pakistan suggests Uganda or Paraguay India is not going to accept. This is a bilateral issue according to the Shimla agreements and we treat it as such.

 

[third eye]

Little do many of us innocent Pakistanis or Indians (or Americans, given that India doesn't allow dual nationality) know, the cross-border relationship between the two armies is very cordial and quite a few nights are spent by mid to high-ranking officers, getting drunk and partying in what can be described as a revival of the festive nights that must have existed in pre-1947 Punjab.

This is a tall one.

May we have a credible link to this claim please ? Not ' I have heard' or ' my uncles tell me'.

I seem to have seen the wrong LOC in all my years.

Waiting for a link please.

 

[SOHEIL]

@Abii & @Soheil
have your say please.

if America attacks Iran from Pakistan ???

I have a question from Pakistani bros & sis ?

do you want your country destroyed ???

 

[Armstrong]

if America attacks Iran from Pakistan ???

I have a question from Pakistani bros & sis ?

do you want your country destroyed ???

Why would America attack Iran from Pakistan ?

Just keep drumming the dooms day scenario thing - If we go down we're taking Tel Aviv with us !

That would keep everyone in their place !

 

[T90TankGuy]

No cheering for anyone... just pointed out the dementia of of your idiotically structured rhetoric







What Akhand bharat... we dont give a crap about acquiring any land... keep your mental pleasures to yourself






Patels? BJP? wth //// How bout coming up with an ounce of objectivity. I have no affiliations with any political establishments




But didn't you just claim Us-Pak sync, as far as kashmir, do understand the relaities on ground and the UN security councils resolution. http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...lebiscite-un-security-council-resolution.html





Well common sense dictates that when a state like USSR breaks apart, there will be a certain time period till the sucessor state will commence its foreign policy, but the whom am I expecting common sense from?





Wait a sec, didn't you claim pakistan aspires to take kashmir from India with the help of US, pointing to sham of kashmiri revolution. As far as Indian troop presence in kashmir is concerned, i dont expect you to understand that didn't want to make this discussion about J&K, but if you insist.. Northern command of the Indian Army is based in J&K alon with 3 State Divisions Viz (J&K Rifles + J&K light infantry and Ladakh scouts -roughly totaling 40,000 troops and support staff)

Northern Command
The Northern Command was a formation of the British Indian Army from 1895 to 1942, and then from 1945 to 1947. Subsequently it was reformed in the post-Independence Indian Army in 1972. is also based in J&K.
The government of India decided to raise a separate command to oversee operations in the northern borders with Pakistan and China. Lt Gen P.S. Bhagat, VC was appointed as the first Army Commander in June 1972. Bhagat's main activities as Army Commander were the improvement of defences and the living and working condition of his troops

the northern command structure is
3rd Infantry Division headquartered at Leh
8th Mountain Division headquartered at Dras
?th Artillery brigade
XV Corps, headquartered at Srinagar, Jammu and Kashmir
19th Infantry Division headquartered at Baramulla,
28th Infantry Division headquartered at Gurez
?th Artillery brigade
XVI Corps, headquartered at Nagrota, Jammu and Kashmir
10th Infantry Division headquartered at Akhnoor
25th Infantry Division headquartered at Rajauri
39th Infantry Division headquartered at Yol
Artillery brigade
Armoured brigade

Indian Armed presence is due to historical Pakistani Aggression. indian Armed structur has been in j&K since 1972, its not a recent deployment...

It is a strategic state where military establishment is stationed.. questioning indian army's presence in j&K is like questioning why do you have troop concentration in Rawalpindi... even now if you dont get my point .. then there is no point in wasting my time ...


With constant infiltration from Pakistan, it leaves us no choice. Once military is stationed in an area some loss of civil liberties are inevitable.



Insurgencies supported by foriegn support, on a counter charge, all doesn't seem to be well in certain parts of your country either.



Please do visit, Mumbai, Banglore, Calcutta, pune, banglore, cochin and study the military barricades there....



Stop infiltration, stop cross border terror tactics, we wouldn't need deployment.



Time to wake up from the nizam era... its 2012



Please spare me the BS when half of the muslim world goes up in flame from a drawing or a video.




Fail buddy... no hidutva affiliations from an atheist over here!


My bad, I assumed your "azad deccan" BS originated from maoist insuregency.. I didn't realise it was derived from hokum!





OK time for some history lesson for Yugo background,
Death of Tito>>Rise of Serbian Nationalist/Slobodan Milošević>revolts in Serbia and Montenegro>>Greater Serbia Demand>> Franjo Tuđman/croatian position against serbian nationalist>>Serbia endorsing Croatian Serbs' rebellion>>Independence of Slovenia and Croatia>>>Croatian War of Independence against rebel ethnic Serbs of the SAO Krajina/support by Serbia>> Independence of Macedonia and Bosnia>>>Serbs immediately declared the independence of Republika Srpska>>> UN Security Council Resolution 721>> Serbian resolution is defeated in a Yugoslav Presidency vote, Slobodan Milošević orders the mobilization of Serbian special forces >>>Slovenia declares independence.>>>European Community recognizes Slovenia and Croatia>>> Bosnia and Herzegovina declare independence>>>Serb-dominated Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) remains>>> Even that break into two>>>





Extrapolating Nationalistic affiliations of Yugo to predominant socio-economic problems of India doesn't need "imagination", it displays pure stupidity...





HAHA




Check facts.




I often wonder why people like you fantasize american occupation of your state politics?

As I've made clear, you have absolutely no understanding of anything and that includes Iran, it's internal politics or even the millions of Persians living in America, seeking an end to the regime (there are 60 satellite channels in Farsi, based in America denouncing Iran).

What???

Is it just me or you seem to have demintia??




??????




You got me, thats what I do


Sure... Whatever



Structure my boy, the word is structure....work on it



Well no point in discussing... you dont know ****!




The reason is your argument has no content, no structure apart from some fantasies of browbeating India into submission with american aid.






Hint: Im not!






Well i never called a pakistani terrorist, and niether did any informed indian member here... so there goes your argument in the trash.



yea sure




What now???


I have no issues with weed,,, if that was your case!



Preaching to the choir brother... with lack of insight, structure and logic... it's reccomended please do take your own advice








All I can say is , welcome to the forum, I will enjoy the entertainment quotient you do bring....
@karan.1970, @DrSomnath999, @indushek, @Joe Shearer, @Capt.Popeye, @nick_indian, @RoYaL~GuJJaR, @Sher Malang @Mech, @Syama Ayas... Stand up comic alert!

Mate why in gods name are you taking this kid seriously . in five pages not one Pakistani member has come to agree with his rants .
we are all having fun at the OP expense ,

 

[MilSpec]

Mate why in gods name are you taking this kid seriously . in five pages not one Pakistani member has come to agree with his rants .
we are all having fun at the OP expense ,

Cmon... May karu to $$$$ character dheela hai?
Was just havin some fun...

 

[T90TankGuy]

Cmon... May karu to $$$$ character dheela hai?
Was just havin some fun...

looks like the OP left the thread man . anyways i find it pointless to refute with people like the op as , one they cannot see their own stupidity and second they end up dragging you to their level .

 

[khanboy007]

well what i feel is that :

the US can certainly not replace China
but the US is looking for a respectable way out of the region so it MAY support the Kashmir Issue for Pakistan
meanwhile India is being Dragged into WOT,
the indian public can certainly not beat the crap out of a single Pakistani as the Pakistani public itself is heavily armed and capable enough to over power Indians, hence there are possibilities of India loosing not only the war but the whole country itself in the hands of greed (greed for Kashmir)

 

[prtikul]

Lack of personal freedom etc etc. Seeing India u should note that we don't have problem with freedom of speech except certain exceptions where the elite comes in.

I have often wondered about how much freedom of speech our constitution gives to us, Are there any blasphemy laws which will charge you for speaking against religions and prophets? Particularly after facebook incident, How will you differentiate between freedom of speech given by US constitution against India's version?

Lack of personal freedom etc etc. Seeing India u should note that we don't have problem with freedom of speech except certain exceptions where the elite comes in.

I have often wondered about how much freedom of speech our constitution gives to us, Are there any blasphemy laws which will charge you for speaking against religions and prophets? Particularly after facebook incident, How will you differentiate between freedom of speech given by US constitution against India's version? @karan.1970 @KRAIT What are your views on this?

 

[surya kiran]

well what i feel is that :

the US can certainly not replace China
but the US is looking for a respectable way out of the region so it MAY support the Kashmir Issue for Pakistan
meanwhile India is being Dragged into WOT,
the indian public can certainly not beat the crap out of a single Pakistani as the Pakistani public itself is heavily armed and capable enough to over power Indians, hence there are possibilities of India loosing not only the war but the whole country itself in the hands of greed (greed for Kashmir)

And you are proud of the bold part? Really? No wonder, big blunder.

 

[khanboy007]

And you are proud of the bold part? Really? No wonder, big blunder.

no not proud just highlighting