My PAK-FA analysis

[sancho]

Don't take foreign help that lightly. I have seen first hand how just a little initial help speeds up the development. Also, the govt has now shown sincerity towards the program, pumping in lot of money.
Russians had to reinvent the wheel. Hopefully, we will not have to.

Of course it will be a help and honestly I wish we would go to even more co-developments, or JV, but it won't double the thrust of Kaveri, neither will we suddenly develop a great radar. It will be good steps in the right direction and it's not like that, that we wouldn't want Russian radar and engines! I think we agree that the Bars radar and AL31 engine of MKI are more than good and IAF is happy to have them and as long as we can produce the next AL41 in India too, I don't see a reason why we shouldn't take it.

Personally, although I like the idea of Pak Fa/FGFA having 360° radar detection, I hope more for an NG EWS and IRST, because I think they are more important than the radar in future!
FGFA will be stealthy and will have an edge over any actual enemy fighter of PLAAF and PAF and even if China develops an 5. gen fighter, the radar won't be a big help anyway. So no matter which gen fighter the enemy is, any tech to detect IR signatures, or other signals through passiv detection, could be a bigger advantage.

That's also why I hope for Rafale to win MMRCA, because I think it will give IAF an edge, especially with radar turned off and guided by AWACS, or by using OSF and Spectra.

 

[hindustan]

pak-fa is such a beautyful and powerful plane

now i wish we can more planes from MMRCA

i think order should be in two diffrent planes

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

What about j-xx , PAF will be very keen to have some of those . But it looks that still they are quite late. And PAK-FA will be in service from 2015 and on the other hand PAF will start receiving fc-20 by 2014/15. so there is gap of 5 years , so PAF have to invest bit more on jf-17 to make it bit more capable. at least a powerful radar is needed and also an engine with more thrust. and making it bit more stealthy by modification in design and also incorporating composite material. it will make it more expensive but these things will add plus points for future

 

[gambit]

And you already know the RCS of PAK-FA as compared to F-35?

Right now...I doubt even Russians knows the PAK-FA's radar low observability.

Oh is it all because the PAK-FA just doesn't look stealthy.. What should it look like then so that it would LOOK STEALTHY ENOUGH as F-35 to your taste??

Therein lies the problem...The F-117 does not 'look' like it can fly, but it does. And we know very well its radar low observability.

The russians have always had a different approach.. They like keeping things SIMPLE-STUPID.. And it works...

What is that 'different approach'?

 

[gogbot]

What about j-xx , PAF will be very keen to have some of those . But it looks that still they are quite late. And PAK-FA will be in service from 2015 and on the other hand PAF will start receiving fc-20 by 2014/15. so there is gap of 5 years , so PAF have to invest bit more on jf-17 to make it bit more capable. at least a powerful radar is needed and also an engine with more thrust. and making it bit more stealthy by modification in design and also incorporating composite material. it will make it more expensive but these things will add plus points for future

It never amazes me, how much people dont get the JF-17

They made it to be cheap and affordable. If they wanted they would of given you a much more capable jet from the beginning. They could have incorporated a number of items from the start.

But all that stuff would have just caused delays and cost over runs.
They needed a cheap affordable plane and that's what the got, For the price you pay the JF-17 does a lot of things.

But Increasing the price of the JF-17 only detracts from its most astonishing feature which is the low price. Lets get something straight its never going to be as good or as capable as the FC-20 or the F-16
But giving it more stuff is just going to make it as expensive, or less cost effective in comparison.
So Why on earth would you choose to buy more expensive JF-17's when you can get F-16's or FC-20's instead

 

[karan.1970]

Was just thinking.. 10 pages of posts on something which almost no one on this forum knows anything about in terms of details etc. Imagine, that none of us had even seen this till a few weeks and now some of us feel qualified enough to compare its specs with that of the most secret plane of the US (f 22)

 

[dbc]

What is that 'different approach'?

Plasma stealth?

 

[gambit]

Plasma stealth?

Discredited...For now.

 

[DeathGod]

What is that 'different approach'?

Remember the time when we didnt even know the expanse of our own planet , when we didnt know to fly. People questioned sometimes irrationally and sometimes on the basis of knowledge but in science till the objective is reached nothing can be claimed or explained ( because there will always be detractors trying to falsify a hypothesis on the basis of existing knowledge). Such is the illusion of knowledge.

The answer to your question will only come after a few years. Till that time you can sing praises for F-22 & F-35 as the best stealth platforms in air.

 

[sancho]

It never amazes me, how much people dont get the JF-17

They made it to be cheap and affordable. If they wanted they would of given you a much more capable jet from the beginning. They could have incorporated a number of items from the start.

But all that stuff would have just caused delays and cost over runs.
They needed a cheap affordable plane and that's what the got, For the price you pay the JF-17 does a lot of things.

But Increasing the price of the JF-17 only detracts from its most astonishing feature which is the low price. Lets get something straight its never going to be as good or as capable as the FC-20 or the F-16
But giving it more stuff is just going to make it as expensive, or less cost effective in comparison.
So Why on earth would you choose to buy more expensive JF-17's when you can get F-16's or FC-20's instead

That's what people on both sides often don't understand, only because JF 17 and LCA are more, or less indigenous developed, they had to be the best fighters. But what they forget is, both are and also will be in future, only the least capable fighters in PAF and IAF!

 

[gogbot]

That's what people on both sides often don't understand, only because JF 17 and LCA are more, or less indigenous developed, they had to be the best fighters. But what they forget is, both are and also will be in future, only the least capable fighters in PAF and IAF!

One key difference LCA is not meant to be Cheap.
Affordable yes, due to the single engine design.
but not cheap.

I mean come on we want to put the Ej200 engine inside it. Its not going to be cheap

 

[LCA Tejas]

One key difference LCA is not meant to be Cheap.
Affordable yes, due to the single engine design.

And its a 4.5 gen aircraft.... MK2 will be even better as the IAF waits for it...

 

[sancho]

One key difference LCA is not meant to be Cheap.
Affordable yes, due to the single engine design.
but not cheap.

I mean come on we want to put the Ej200 engine inside it. Its not going to be cheap

It was meant to be cheap and I guess for exports it still will be cheap, but IAF must integrate costlier techs to get them done soon.

And its a 4.5 gen aircraft.... MK2 will be even better as the IAF waits for it...

MK1 is 4. gen just as JF 17, MK2 can be 4.5 gen with AESA, maybe IRST and TVC.

 

[deepakclaw]

for now only the prototype has been released for pak-fa y to compare it with f22 or f35 ...first let it role out of the factories then we can do analyse ............

 

[gogbot]

It was meant to be cheap and I guess for exports it still will be cheap, but IAF must integrate costlier techs to get them done soon.

well no, you see it cant do that.

By design it is more expensive to make then the JF-17.

SO if we tried to make a cheap fighter, JF-17 would always be more cost effective alternative.

But what we can do is offer essentially a cheaper and small Griphen NG.

I mean if you look at it the Tejas has all the features of the Griphen.
But is easier and quicker to build,
Tejas should be marketed as Affordable High tech.

its no MKI.
But For the money you pay you get a lot of Tech.