Muslim population share decides their mentality: RSS women wing wisdom

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Thats true. Lets not chew the words while saying it.

Muslim feel its their obligation to establish Islam and they tend to achieve that once found themselves in good numbers to be able to do that.

@laphroaig I remember you posted a detailed muslim % wise analysis for different countries and their behaviour on other place. Can you please post it here. I know that may warrant the wrath of few appointees(or wannabes) here.

 

[Prince of Dorne]

There are problems with / in Muslims.. but Islam is not problem..

With all due respect to you, Can I use the same logic to say, there are problems with hindutva followers but Hindutva as an ideology is not the problem?

If Zakir naik and Owaisis can get away with encouraging, aiding terrorists i dont understand what is the fuss about this. Aren't the Chaddis entitled to have freedom of speech? Or this is something reserved for only minority and JNU jholawallas?

Lol, her speech, no matter how disgusting, will sound like satsang when compared to the owaisi's

 

[laphroaig]

Thats true. Lets not chew the words while saying it.

Muslim feel its their obligation to establish Islam and they tend to achieve that once found themselves in good numbers to be able to do that.

@laphroaig I remember you posted a detailed muslim % wise analysis for different countries and their behaviour on other place. Can you please post it here. I know that may warrant the wrath of few appointees(or wannabes) here.

Well ....

I believe Muslims have a problem with integration.

There does seem to be a critical mass beyond which (for a group of Muslims) some strange chemistry occurs.

I also believe India and the Indian Muslim community would be best served at the 10% mark.

 

[magudi]

I took time but now I blocked them. Yes Now I'm aware about certain people in this forum, that they are very coordinated. some hide their hatred, some show openly but some indirectly spit venom...
they want you 1. not to post or open thread related RSS or bjp or whatever ( be it scam or related hate speech or so)
2. if you post, prepare for personal insults or pics or video ( by particular member that targets religion) and if you counter with another.. that's it, festive begins..
3. you can't report any of their post.. if you do, one buffoon will start abusing ( I faced him).
4. you can't appreciate some steps taken by previous govt.,which are helpful to present govt..
ex: solar policy, as Congi took step towards encouraging solar power systems. but someone said, I would be embarrassed..

@DesiGuy1403 is a sanghi , don't even bother to debate

here's a very recent (infact yesterday) example of sanghis not letting peaceful majority live in peace


http://ilovesiliguri.com/lord-jagannath-rath-yatra-attacked/


@ranjeet

 

[DesiGuy1403]

@DesiGuy1403 is a sanghi , don't even bother to debate

here's a very recent (infact yesterday) example of sanghis not letting peaceful majority live in peace


http://ilovesiliguri.com/lord-jagannath-rath-yatra-attacked/


@ranjeet

Yes Sir, surprisingly we sanghis, who want to discuss are the "bigger" villians.

It's not like we Sanghis do social work like volunteering during national disasters, we don't...right?

It's not like we Sanghis were willing to sacrifise our lives when wars broke out...we didn't....right

It's not like we Sanghis were willing to travel to the remotest parts of India, open schools and educate....we don't...right

I doubt many of the "intellecutuals" are even aware that there are many Atheists in Sangh. Oh, they won't believe it alright. They think there is only one ideology in Sangh.

Coming to the link you posted, I don't want to comment on it, lest I am abused even more.

 

[Pride]

I remembered Jinnah in my Eid prayers for a very specific reason

And then ran away to Canada for "Other" reasons. No offence meant!

 

[Joe Shearer]

There are problems with / in Muslims.. but Islam is not problem..

My problem is with Islam, not with Muslims. It is also with Christianity, with Hinduism, with Buddhism, ....with the whole pack of them.

Muslims must be ready to be treated as absolutely equal in the eyes of the law. Within that boundary, they can do what they like, believe what they like, behave as they like. As long as they are Muslim Indians, nobody can hem them in.

It is individuals or groups that represent not themselves but a larger idea, a larger transcendental reality which does not come under the law that disturbs civilised society. My problem is with all religions as religions, in that they encourage violence in support of the beliefs preached within that religion, and present a future free of punishment under the law, because that future is a future outside the reach of the law of the land.

Abolish Muslim Personal law boards.
Bring Uniform civil code.
One nation one law to its citizens.


MUSLIM PERSONAL LAW BOARDS ARE NOT SPONSORED BY THE STATE. THEY DO NOT HAVE LEGISLATIVE SANCTION. THEY ARE PRIVATE, AND HAVE NO OFFICIAL STANDING.

Not their problem they have been tuned accordingly by few political parties.

 

[laphroaig]

My problem is with Islam, not with Muslims. It is also with Christianity, with Hinduism, with Buddhism, ....with the whole pack of them.

Muslims must be ready to be treated as absolutely equal in the eyes of the law. Within that boundary, they can do what they like, believe what they like, behave as they like. As long as they are Muslim Indians, nobody can hem them in.

It is individuals or groups that represent not themselves but a larger idea, a larger transcendental reality which does not come under the law that disturbs civilised society. My problem is with all religions as religions, in that they encourage violence in support of the beliefs preached within that religion, and present a future free of punishment under the law, because that future is a future outside the reach of the law of the land.

Joe we have a fundamental problem then. Which is not going to be bridged by your broad brush of lumping every faith with Islam.

Because from what I understand in my discussions with many Muslims, across the spectrum of conservatism and the rigidity of their belief, is that Islam does not recognize the concept of different nation states.

Islam therefore does not believe in the structure and laws of a nation state.

If that is true, as is seen by the clamor for Sharia wherever Muslims start growing in number and exerting influence, then you may keep sincerely wanting Muslims to behave in a certain way, but they will not. Because by their rules, they cannot.

Hope that explains.

I would like to see you try and expand the above to include other faiths in an attempt to soften the blow by being an equal opportunity disser of all faiths.

 

[Nilgiri]

Muslims must be ready to be treated as absolutely equal in the eyes of the law. Within that boundary, they can do what they like, believe what they like, behave as they like. As long as they are Muslim Indians, nobody can hem them in.

It is individuals or groups that represent not themselves but a larger idea, a larger transcendental reality which does not come under the law that disturbs civilised society. My problem is with all religions as religions, in that they encourage violence in support of the beliefs preached within that religion, and present a future free of punishment under the law, because that future is a future outside the reach of the law of the land.

One of the biggest blunders was not having a UCC from the start when we took on the mandate of being a secular country.

Sir, what are your views on the Mandal Commision and reservations? Just interested.

Joe we have a fundamental problem then. Which is not going to be bridged by your broad brush of lumping every faith with Islam.

Because from what I understand in my discussions with many Muslims, across the spectrum of conservatism and the rigidity of their belief, is that Islam does not recognize the concept of different nation states.

Islam therefore does not believe in the structure and laws of a nation state.

If that is true, as is seen by the clamor for Sharia wherever Muslims start growing in number and exerting influence, then you may keep sincerely wanting Muslims to behave in a certain way, but they will not. Because by their rules, they cannot.

Hope that explains.

I would like to see you try and expand the above to include other faiths in an attempt to soften the blow by being an equal opportunity disser of all faiths.

Their theological based theory does not worry me one bit. Because in that case we really should be worried about the Christians too (just look at what the jews did in Palestine as well!)

It is rather the implementation and interpretation by the people that circumscribe to that religion in whatever way.

That is what matters in the end. I mean plenty of people interpret and implement things without theological grounding as well....so whats it matter if or how it exists. Its the people that matter in the end. Education, exposure and integration does wonders for moderation and progressivism. When you add critical and logic based thinking, you may even get on the road to something much higher: virtue!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe we have a fundamental problem then. Which is not going to be bridged by your broad brush of lumping every faith with Islam.

Because from what I understand in my discussions with many Muslims, across the spectrum of conservatism and the rigidity of their belief, is that Islam does not recognize the concept of different nation states.

Islam therefore does not believe in the structure and laws of a nation state.

If that is true, as is seen by the clamor for Sharia wherever Muslims start growing in number and exerting influence, then you may keep sincerely wanting Muslims to behave in a certain way, but they will not. Because by their rules, they cannot.

Hope that explains.

I would like to see you try and expand the above to include other faiths in an attempt to soften the blow by being an equal opportunity disser of all faiths.

'Champ', for the sake of using a non-incriminating epithet, I did make one exception, when you started snickering, and I stand by that.

Second, Muslims have to choose. They can be Indian Muslims, or they can be Muslim Indians, just like I am a Hindu Indian or that great guy and genuine nutter, vsdoc, was a Bawa Indian.

They can want the Sharia, but they have to obey the laws of the land where they are. Like everybody else.

 

[DesiGuy1403]

I would like to see you try and expand the above to include other faiths in an attempt to soften the blow by being an equal opportunity disser of all faiths

Every religion has it's share of problems for sure.
But, each religions problems are their own and they are very different.

This particular thread was about a specific problem. Instead of debating it, the seculars....naa...let's call them cowards, because that's what they are, in fear of hurting certain sections, skirt around the issue.
Oh, they know the issue at hand. They know it much better than most of us but they won't speak of it, ever.

 

[Joe Shearer]

One of the biggest blunders was not having a UCC from the start when we took on the mandate of being a secular country.

Sir, what are your views on the Mandal Commision and reservations? Just interested.



Their theological based theory does not worry me one bit. Because in that case we really should be worried about the Christians too (just look at what the jews did in Palestine as well!)

It is rather the implementation and interpretation by the people that circumscribe to that religion in whatever way.

That is what matters in the end. I mean plenty of people interpret and implement things without theological grounding as well....so whats it matter if or how it exists. Its the people that matter in the end. Education, exposure and integration does wonders for moderation and progressivism. When you add critical and logic based thinking, you may even get on the road to something much higher: virtue!

The Mandal Commission was a cheat.

 

[laphroaig]

Their theological based theory does not worry me one bit. Because in that case we really should be worried about the Christians too (just look at what the jews did in Palestine as well!)

It is rather the implementation and interpretation by the people that circumscribe to that religion in whatever way.

That is what matters in the end. I mean plenty of people interpret and implement things without theological grounding as well....so whats it matter if or how it exists. Its the people that matter in the end. Education, exposure and integration does wonders for moderation and progressivism. When you add critical and logic based thinking, you may even get on the road to something much higher: virtue!

The point of discussion is against the very precise template laid out by Joe.

Which is, he has no issues with what people do per their faith, as long as they do it within the laws of the land.

My point is equally simple.

We have laws of the land that are built around a faith. Not vice versa. Because the faith believes it is the law. Everything else either does not exist, or comes a distant second.

We have an issue there. And it is not going to be solved by being diplomatic by saying all faiths do the same.

They do not.

Second, Muslims have to choose.

I have not seen that choice ever offered to them.

Nor do I feel you would be very happy with the results were the issue ever to be enforced.

 

[Nilgiri]

The point of discussion is against the very precise template laid out by Joe.

Which is, he has no issues with what people do per their faith, as long as they do it within the laws of the land.

My point is equally simple.

We have laws of the land that are built around a faith. Not vice versa. Because the faith believes it is the law. Everything else either does not exist, or comes a distant second.

We have an issue there. And it is not going to be solved by being diplomatic by saying all faiths do the same.

They do not.

Ok gotcha, carry on.

The Mandal Commission was a cheat.

Great I can tick off more things we agree on. I appreciate finding common ground.

 

[laphroaig]

Ok gotcha, carry on.

I cannot carry on until Joe (or anyone else) rebuts the point I have made.

Sometime it makes life more interesting when you try and defend a shaky premise. Than one that is a no-brainer and requires no special grey-effort.