Muslim Philosopher Says Islam Has Given Birth To Monsters, Needs Reform

[Developereo]

It is amazing that the Muslims would preach 'no compulsion in religion' to those who actually live 'no compulsion in religion' as if we need reinforcement about that.

Some people believe that God made a Covenant with Abraham to reserve a certain piece of land for his Chosen People. Those people believe their religion gives them the right and duty to evict the non-Chosen peoples from that land.

Some people believe that Jesus made a promise to return to Zion. Those people believe their religion gives them the right and duty to enforce demographic changes in Zion to prepare for His return.

Both these groups use force to achieve their religiously mandated goals over non-believers.

The difference between you and us is that we know when we are being manipulated by religious zealots, but you don't.

 

[syedali73]

The difference between you and us is that we know when we are being manipulated by religious zealots, but you don't.

They also know, but being hypocrite, don't accept. Who were the hawks in Bush administration? Who was/is Bush himself? Don't they call themselves NeoCons? Do NeoCons live 'no compulsion in religion'? We have religious zealots in our society, they on the other hand have them in their governments but they don't want to accept.

 

[gambit]

I heard you.

That if I refuse to give Keith Ellision my vote, that would make the same as a bank robber ?

Yup...I get it.

 

[syedali73]

That if I refuse to give Keith Ellision my vote, that would make the same as a bank robber ?

Yup...I get it.

Bank robbery does not even count against what kind of robberies you have been doing all along the way. You'll never get it my friend because you are in a sorry state where you have to prove yourself more American than an American.

 

[gambit]

Bank robbery does not even count against what kind of robberies you have been doing all along the way. You'll never get it my friend because you are in a sorry state where you have to prove yourself more American than an American.

Yah...All those Minnesotans who refused to vote for Keith Ellison are no better than rapists and murderers.

 

[syedali73]

Yah...All those Minnesotans who refused to vote for Keith Ellison are no better than rapists and murderers.

You are assuming too much, which is not good. Lets agree to disagree.

 

[Judge]

Islam has all ready declared ''There is no compulsion in religion''. Islamophobes like you love to see all Muslims being branded as terrorists.

@Jaanbaz - While I respect you for the person that you are.

This 'there is no compulsion in religion' seems to be...codswallop.

When almost every single Muslim country in the WORLD has laws which makes it a Crime to leave Islam. Death as punishment for Apostasy is a legal norm in Muslim countries.
This includes the 'Islam ka Qila' Pakistan in which the maximum punishment awarded for leaving Islam is Execution. The discretion on whether or not to award the maximum punishment is upto the Judge.

And I am quite sure that countries like Kingdom of Saudi Arabia - the birthplace of Islam, have Ulemas who are quite qualified to give judgements on what their faith says.

So please. What you are saying is just 'your version of Islam'. Actions speak louder than words. And actions of Islamic Republics around the world are not just loud - they are practically screaming.

 

[gambit]

You are assuming too much, which is not good. Lets agree to disagree.

YOU who are making Olympics caliber mental gymnastics in trying to defend forced conversions is telling me to 'agree to disagree' ?

And yes, I am accusing you of defending forced conversions based upon your absurd arguments. Your fellow Muslim from Australia said Islam does not need reforming. I agree with that. I say Muslims and Islam should stay EXACTLY the way you are. With Muslims like you two, reformation is pointless.

 

[Developereo]

They also know, but being hypocrite, don't accept. Who were the hawks in Bush administration? Who was/is Bush himself? Don't they call themselves NeoCons? Do NeoCons live 'no compulsion in religion'? We have religious zealots in our society, they on the other hand have them in their governments but they don't want to accept.

The religious zealots in the West excel at the latest marketing techniques. Hindu zealots are fast adopting those same techniques. One of their tactics is to disguise religious agendas in the garb of cultural issues.

Thus the Swiss can ban minarets and the French can ban headscarves (while permitting small cross pendants) using "culture" as the Trojan horse.

By comparison, Muslim zealots belong in the back of a butcher shop.

 

[Judge]

Allowed ?

So now you are equating voting, which depends on one's skill at persuasion, with legal apportionment ? A forced conversion into another religion is essentially theft. A theft of one's spirituality, something that even atheists acknowledged as real and vital to humanity and what it means to be human. Marginalization based upon false perceptions is nothing compares to what you are trying to deflect attention from with your ridiculous arguments. You are essentially saying that the denial of something voluntary -- a vote or a positive opinion -- is the same as an act of thievery. If I refuse to give you something, that make me no better than the bank robber.

For all the hue and cry from the Muslims about being 'marginalized', they have their own countries with their own governments. They are free to travel and socialize as they wish. They are free to prosyletize with impunity. They are free with their speech, hateful and even treasonous speech. But here you are crying that you are marginalized because you cannot convince enough Americans to vote for you.

You brought up warfare and what a warmonger we are. It is funny that you would brought that up considering with so many Muslims having no problems with forced conversions, we wonder how many would die under a Muslim army from forced conversions if the Muslims are a military peer to us.

His post seems to be nothing but a canard to deflect the topic and steer it in another direction.
Equating forced conversions and 'there is no compulsion in religion' to a War between Countries and then onwards to 'not being able to get enough Muslims as elected officials'

 

[gambit]

His post seems to be nothing but a canard to deflect the topic and steer it in another direction.
Equating forced conversions and 'there is no compulsion in religion' to a War between Countries and then onwards to 'not being able to get enough Muslims as elected officials'

Despite his doctorate, this guy is primed for extremism.

 

[Developereo]

His post seems to be nothing but a canard to deflect the topic and steer it in another direction.
Equating forced conversions and 'there is no compulsion in religion' to a War between Countries and then onwards to 'not being able to get enough Muslims as elected officials'

Some of the 'wars between countries' are fueled by religious convictions on the part of West/Israel.

I already explained above but I fully understand the reluctance and inability of some to face facts.

 

[syedali73]

YOU who are making Olympics caliber mental gymnastics in trying to defend forced conversions is telling me to 'agree to disagree' ?

And yes, I am accusing you of defending forced conversions based upon your absurd arguments. Your fellow Muslim from Australia said Islam does not need reforming. I agree with that. I say Muslims and Islam should stay EXACTLY the way you are. With Muslims like you two, reformation is pointless.

First of all use of smilies by a senior person like you looks odd, actually pretty distasteful. While posting you should at least respect your own age if nothing else. I know your are dying hard to become an American but I guess some Asian values must still be alive in you, hopefully.

Secondly, I have never supported forced-conversions. In-fact I don't support conversions at all let alone forced-conversions. My philosophy is simple; teach by example. Religion is not like selling a pair of jeans for which I would rely on solicitation, volunteered or forced. This is something one buys out of their sheer change of heart.

Lastly, you are not good at being sarcastic so don't attempt it.

 

[Judge]

Despite his doctorate, this guy is primed for extremism.

Oh he is. A better educated counterpart of @Zarvan .
Twisting the words to equate aspects which are poles apart. Essentially the kind that provides the 'intellectual justification' for what many Muslims like Talib do.

Some of the 'wars between countries' are fueled by religious convictions on the part of West/Israel.

I already explained above but I fully understand the reluctance and inability of some to face facts.

Using the word "West" is a misnomer on your part.
I accept that Israel as a State came into being on religious ground and the war they wage is also for religious convictions.
However if you say US entered Iraq or Afghanistan because of religious reasons, you are wrong. You can ascribe reasons like Oil, wealth, military control, etc which are legitimate.

However, how is that in any way related to this post of mine:
-------------------------------------
This 'there is no compulsion in religion' seems to be...codswallop.

When almost every single Muslim country in the WORLD has laws which makes it a Crime to leave Islam. Death as punishment for Apostasy is a legal norm in Muslim countries.
This includes the 'Islam ka Qila' Pakistan in which the maximum punishment awarded for leaving Islam is Execution. The discretion on whether or not to award the maximum punishment is upto the Judge.

And I am quite sure that countries like Kingdom of Saudi Arabia - the birthplace of Islam, have Ulemas who are quite qualified to give judgements on what their faith says.

So please. What you are saying is just 'your version of Islam'. Actions speak louder than words. And actions of Islamic Republics around the world are not just loud - they are practically screaming.

------------------------------------

Are you suggesting that Islamic countries have these laws because of Israel? Or that Islamic countries throughout the globe have a highly discriminatory approach to non-Muslims because of Israel ?

So what exactly is your point? I ask you to be blunt.

 

[temp1994]

His post seems to be nothing but a canard to deflect the topic and steer it in another direction.
Equating forced conversions and 'there is no compulsion in religion' to a War between Countries and then onwards to 'not being able to get enough Muslims as elected officials'

+ He cries like a banshee in each and every thread on lines of " How ebil those yindooos are!". Some Indian posters have even asked him to limit his crying to a single Hindu Bashing thread started by icewolf.