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'Muslim nations firm in halting Israel'

Yes i think he is a swinger to say the least


Some Paks leave their tiny village and settle in UK ghettos, and then suddenly they find Islam and Muslims nations.

That's the height of UN-education (aka Jahalat).

One day when you will have money and time, then make sure you travel to Muslim countries and live there for at least 3 months. Huj and Umra doesn't count. And make sure you interact with local Saudi families. See how the men and women live, and think, and view this life. Same thing in Iran, And Malaysia, and Turkey, and Indonesia.

Nothing personal. I hope you won't take it as things about you. No Sir, I have seen enough of UK to make this judgement call.

At personal level I find Muslim families in Saudi, or Iran, or Malaysia or Turkey as very humble, but then the same is true with European families and American families. The bonds I developed personally with Christian, and Jewish, and Muslim families gives me true appreciation of each culture.


Let me ask you a simple question. Have you personally met Zionist family? Can you distinguish between an Arab Jewish family vs. European Jewish family vs. Arab Christian family vs. American Christian family?

How many research labs and universities have you visited in Arab countries and Iran and USA and UK?

Can you tell the difference between the level of research in each of these places?


Once you have lived through this "personal" experience then come to us and tell us that so called Muslim nations are ready to take on the world.

Otherwise it is just bunch of bull coming from UK ghettos and it for sure doesn't count.

peace.
 
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Saudi Arabia has been scientifically and intellectually dead for 1300+ years a correction there for you my friend.

...... you do not say alaihe salam to a khalifa just thought you might need to increase your "historianisness".

You still have a lot to learn about history. A lot more.

Off course I have to learn more. Pursuit of knowledge is a lifelong endeavor for sure.

However the corrections you show in your post are just a knitpick trivial stuff. 1000+ years means more than a 1000 years. Your assertion of 1300+ says the same and thus it is trivial.


Saudis may not say alaihe salam for a Khalifa, but Iranians do.

Oh wait, for Saudi Arabia, Iran may not be a "Muslim nation". huh?

I saw deep abhorrence in Saudi for the Iranians. And saw the same in Iran for Saudis.

There goes all the fantastic theories about so called Muslim nations conquering the world. As the idea of "Muslim nations" only exists on paper, and suitable only for a discussion while sipping wonderful "gahwa" in a Saudi princes's mansion after a nice game of soccer/football. No one should take this concept seriously. It is just an empty talk.

Peace.


ps. see my other post. I have traveled through Saudi and Iran.

Have you my "friend" traveled through Iran and Pakistan?
 
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Off course I have to learn more. Pursuit of knowledge is a lifelong endeavor for sure.

However the corrections you show in your post are just a knitpick trivial stuff. 1000+ years means more than a 1000 years. Your assertion of 1300+ says the same and thus it is trivial.


Saudis may not say alaihe salam for a Khalifa, but Iranians do.

Oh wait, for Saudi Arabia, Iran may not be a "Muslim nation". huh?

I saw deep abhorrence in Saudi for the Iranians. And saw the same in Iran for Saudis.

There goes all the fantastic theories about so called Muslim nations concurring the world. As the idea of "Muslim nations" only exists on paper, and suitable only for a discussion while sipping wonderful "gahwa" in a Saudi princes's mansion after a nice game of soccer/football. No one should take this concept seriously. It is just an empty talk.

Peace.


ps. see my other post. I have traveled through Saudi and Iran.

Have you my "friend" traveled through Iran and Pakistan?

No nation can be the epicenter of Science and Knowledge in only a 40 years time. The US and the rest of the European nations have had a clear Identity since the 17th century. This identity this knowledge of who they really are and who they belong to made them in the course of 300 years what they are today.

In the case of Muslim nations who you hate and abhor this Identity is at best more than 60-70 years old. And this Identity has changed from being one of Islam to one of either "Arabism" or "Pakistanism" or "Persian" through colonization. It no longer became on of Islam. When our Identity was clear when we were sure of who we are and who we represented we were the masters of our age. We became the only Super power of the time but then we begun to decline....

This decline came for multiple reasons call it a combination of Rulers arrogance with Religion abuse and the result is what you said is today. Yes it is our fault and no it is not. It is our fault we got weak and it is not that we are today, today we are not what you say is because as you said we refused to completely bow down to the super powers of today. The super powers of today who are regulating what we can and can not know and learn.

But at 9/11/2001 the world changed. The entire foundation of the known world was shaken to its core and confusion was set a blaze on the world. And today the echo of 9/11 can still be felt it was our wake up call...Have we become so pathetic as to resort to such a thing to get a point across?? Have we become so weak as that the frustration and oppression we are suffering from from both internal and external sources made us become this way?? The Islamic world have woken up.

It will take a long time Historian and things always go worse before they go better. Now we see the appointed despots of the west fall one after the other. Now we see the rise of Muslims who have really woken up and begun to dream of a better future a future that our dignity that we lost in the wars 100 years ago will be back.

Maybe you do not see what I see "Historian" because you are too busy looking in the past. But I do I pick to look forward and the future does not look grim.
 
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Maybe you do not see what I see "Historian" because you are too busy looking in the past. But I do I pick to look forward and the future does not look grim.

Assalam alaikum he busy doing latam ( لطم ) lol , hisorian matam ker na band karo. there r always ups and down and for some reason we r down at the moment doesnot mean we will remain forever, have some hope and respect also if u r a muslim

TARIQ
 
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No nation can be the epicenter of Science and Knowledge in only a 40 years time. The US and the rest of the European nations have had a clear Identity since the 17th century. This identity this knowledge of who they really are and who they belong to made them in the course of 300 years what they are today. .......



Maybe you do not see what I see "Historian" because you are too busy looking in the past. But I do I pick to look forward and the future does not look grim.

Good. That's the whole point. Learn from "unbiased" and "unemotional" history, see the "present" and plan for the future.

The whole idea of "Muslims nations" is incorrect and over-estimated if you look at present and the history.

Thus Pakistanis should not be shouting (or get on the bandwagon) of Muslims nations taking on anyone let alone the so-called Zionism.

From your post I gather, that you don't want Saudi Arabia to get involved in any fight with Israel either. (Correct me if I misunderstood.)

If that's true we are saying the same thing, except you do not like some of the harsh but honest terms being used in the analysis.

It is like you go to a doctor, and he says you are really sick, then you turn around and tell the doctor don't say I am sick, just give me a painkiller. But that will be wrong on your part and on part of doctor if he agrees with you.

Historians too are like doctors who watch the sickness or health of a nation and try to give the right dosage so the healing begins.

Pakistan has been misdiagnosed thanks to Islamism, with bad history, and that's why we are in deep trouble even though we have a lot of God given resources.



Nothing personal.


peace.
 
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Good. That's the whole point. Learn from "unbiased" and "unemotional" history, see the "present" and plan for the future.

The whole idea of "Muslims nations" is incorrect and over-estimated if you look at present and the history.

Thus Pakistanis should not be shouting (or get on the bandwagon) of Muslims nations taking on anyone let alone the so-called Zionism.

From your post I gather, that you don't want Saudi Arabia to get involved in any fight with Israel either. (Correct me if I misunderstood.)

If that's true we are saying the same thing, except you do not like some of the harsh but honest terms being used in the analysis.

It is like you go to a doctor, and he says you are really sick, then you turn around and tell the doctor don't say I am sick, just give me a painkiller. But that will be wrong on your part and on part of doctor if he agrees with you.

Historians too are like doctors who watch the sickness or health of a nation and try to give the right dosage so the healing begins.

Pakistan has been misdiagnosed thanks to Islamism, with bad history, and that's why we are in deep trouble even though we have a lot of God given resources.



Nothing personal.


peace.

What I meant is...Now we build...Tomorrow we rule....
 
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In the case of Muslim nations who you hate and abhor this Identity is at best more than 60-70 years old. And this Identity has changed from being one of Islam to one of either "Arabism" or "Pakistanism" or "Persian" through colonization. ....

Sunni vs. Shia divide comes from the time of Khulafa Rashideen. Even though you hear rosy pictures. But it was pretty bad time. Those guys fought with each other like they are sworn enemies. Three out of 4 Khulafa were murdered/assassinated. Aysha ra and Ali ra fought pitched battles. Hussain ra was murdered along with many members of his family.

Iranians hate and do not except 3 out 4 Khalifas.


In Saudi, Wahabi movement destroyed all the monuments in Jannat al Baqih. Modern Salafi movement (extracted from Wahabism) is the most militant and vicious organization ever known to man.

And if you want to say this is only 60+ years old, then my dear poster, you are gravely mistaken and unaware of the Islamic history.

We in Pakistan have suffered thanks to Wahabi and Shia fight since 1979 aka Khumaini revolution. So please do not misguide us further by white-washing the bad blood between Iran and Saudi.


Peace.
 
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Sunni vs. Shia divide comes from the time of Khulafa Rashideen. Even though you hear rosy pictures. But it was pretty bad time. Those guys fought with each other like they are sworn enemies. Three out of 4 Khulafa were murdered/assassinated. Aysha ra and Ali ra fought pitched battles. Hussain ra was murdered along with many members of his family.

Iranians hate and do not except 3 out 4 Khalifas.


In Saudi, Wahabi movement destroyed all the monuments in Jannat al Baqih. Modern Salafi movement (extracted from Wahabism) is the most militant and vicious organization ever known to man.

And if you want to say this is only 60+ years old, then my dear poster, you are gravely mistaken and unaware of the Islamic history.

We in Pakistan have suffered thanks to Wahabi and Shia fight since 1979 aka Khumaini revolution. So please do not misguide us further by white-washing the bad blood between Iran and Saudi.


Peace.

Then you are saying that throughout history Islam as a whole was backward?
During the Khulafa Rashidun both Rome and Persia were defeated and if that is not the biggest success story of that time I do not know what is.

What do you know about salafi movement?? Please explain to me what is your information regarding them?

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 PM ----------

And if you want to say this is only 60+ years old, then my dear poster, you are gravely mistaken and unaware of the Islamic history.

And yes when I said it is only 60+ years old you know what I meant.
 
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Your one up-manship and ruler mentality wins u no favours from anyone.Go local and keep the neighbour,u can worry abt ruling and all later.

Look at Bosnia and how the Turkish Caliphate made life hard for the Bosniaks.
 
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Your one up-manship and ruler mentality wins u no favours from anyone.Go local and keep the neighbour,u can worry abt ruling and all later.

Look at Bosnia and how the Turkish Caliphate made life hard for the Bosniaks.
well i know some bosnians, and you know what they have to say about that? they say SERBS make their life hard
 
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backward murmalak of iran can bark all they want, the truth is an average muslim has least intrest in arab versus israel affairs..israel is an industrialist nation with a track record of scientefic and technological achivements..compare this with rock throwing palestinenans and guess where are the stakes...the muslim world is at far more risk in the hands of safvid suprmacist spewing constant venom of hate than a tiny middle eastern nation surving on american dole out's.

With due respect, the role of shia leaders in the islamic history has always been destructive and divisive..nobody is going to take them seriously ever!

Then you are saying that throughout history Islam as a whole was backward?
During the Khulafa Rashidun both Rome and Persia were defeated and if that is not the biggest success story of that time I do not know what is.

What do you know about salafi movement?? Please explain to me what is your information regarding them?

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 PM ----------



And yes when I said it is only 60+ years old you know what I meant.

The iranian religion fabricated by the Azeri safvid poets dynasty has everythig to do with persian imperialism and azeri-turk supermacy, which ruled persia since the times of its first Shah. To make their case strong, the safvid disorted history, fabricated events, put theologians and historians to sword and forced converted the masses.

They hate the khulfa rashideen because they bankrupted the empire and "broke the nose" of its azeri royality but feel the need to maintain a connection with Islam because Hussain ibn Ali married Sherbano and hence became connected to azeri royality..

While Iran portrays itself as democractic on paper, all the top ayatollahs who are actually incharge are azeri-turk. I have a video of ayatollah confession regarding the lies invented on Hz. Umar out of grudge for loss of persian empire at his hand. I will not post the videos here but any member can request me by pm.

well i know some bosnians, and you know what they have to say about that? they say SERBS make their life hard

The bosnians through out history were used as bargaining chips in europe by the ottoman turks. They have some what come used to blaming all sides expect taking responsibility for themselves..the sooner they realize this, the faster they will heal..all we can do is feel sympathy for them and contribute.

Sunni vs. Shia divide comes from the time of Khulafa Rashideen. Even though you hear rosy pictures. But it was pretty bad time. Those guys fought with each other like they are sworn enemies. Three out of 4 Khulafa were murdered/assassinated. Aysha ra and Ali ra fought pitched battles. Hussain ra was murdered along with many members of his family.

Iranians hate and do not except 3 out 4 Khalifas.


In Saudi, Wahabi movement destroyed all the monuments in Jannat al Baqih. Modern Salafi movement (extracted from Wahabism) is the most militant and vicious organization ever known to man.
You fail to mention who actually incited and created this divide?? Who lured Hussain into Kufa and then abandoned him?? Who plotted for the murder of those Kulfa especially Umar???? Who pitched Ali at the battle of siffin?? And finally the famous treachery of ahle kufa they are famous for and this is where the fountain head of rival sect actually emerged..Even Hussain cursed the ahle kufa for their treachery.

Come on man, atleast know some real history before opening you mouth..may be you did travel through Iran and KSA, however I am sure that was not without an earful from a turban head in farsi!

As far as destruction of monuments is concerned, idoltary, grave worship and monuments over graves are the way of jahiliya and strictly forbidden in Islam. Ottoman erected them to strengthen their political grip in the name of religion and Allah made them bite the dust of history to the point that Turks dont even bother taking their name.
 
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backward murmalak of iran can bark all they want, the truth is an average muslim has least intrest in arab versus israel affairs..israel is an industrialist nation with a track record of scientefic and technological achivements..compare this with rock throwing palestinenans and guess where are the stakes...the muslim world is at far more risk in the hands of safvid suprmacist spewing constant venom of hate than a tiny middle eastern nation surving on american dole out's.

With due respect, the role of shia leaders in the islamic history has always been destructive and divisive..nobody is going to take them seriously ever!



The iranian religion fabricated by the Azeri safvid poets dynasty has everythig to do with persian imperialism and azeri-turk supermacy, which ruled persia since the times of its first Shah. To make their case strong, the safvid disorted history, fabricated events, put theologians and historians to sword and forced converted the masses.

They hate the khulfa rashideen because they bankrupted the empire and "broke the nose" of its azeri royality but feel the need to maintain a connection with Islam because Hussain ibn Ali married Sherbano and hence became connected to azeri royality..

While Iran portrays itself as democractic on paper, all the top ayatollahs who are actually incharge are azeri-turk. I have a video of ayatollah confession regarding the lies invented on Hz. Umar out of grudge for loss of persian empire at his hand. I will not post the videos here but any member can request me by pm.



The bosnians through out history were used as bargaining chips in europe by the ottoman turks. They have some what come used to blaming all sides expect taking responsibility for themselves..the sooner they realize this, the faster they will heal..all we can do is feel sympathy for them and contribute.


You fail to mention who actually incited and created this divide?? Who lured Hussain into Kufa and then abandoned him?? Who plotted for the murder of those Kulfa especially Umar???? Who pitched Ali at the battle of siffin?? And finally the famous treachery of ahle kufa they are famous for and this is where the fountain head of rival sect actually emerged..Even Hussain cursed the ahle kufa for their treachery.

Come on man, atleast know some real history before opening you mouth..may be you did travel through Iran and KSA, however I am sure that was not without an earful from a turban head in farsi!

As far as destruction of monuments is concerned, idoltary, grave worship and monuments over graves are the way of jahiliya and strictly forbidden in Islam. Ottoman erected them to strengthen their political grip in the name of religion and Allah made them bite the dust of history to the point that Turks dont even bother taking their name.


Dear poster,

All of your assertions prove my point. Muslim countries have deep divides and fishers. Anyone who makes a statement that "Muslim nations (combined) will do this or do that", is simply a deceiving the poor hapless Pakistanis.


Got it? Look at the thread title and see why I said what I said. It was not meant to be multi-volume Islamic history but rather a summary to show that Muslim countries cannot unite because of their religious and cultural differences.


As far as your views about tombs are concerned. You are entitled to all that.

We'll make sure your type never comes to power in Pakistan (and hopefully not even in India). Because primitive tribals will bring down beautiful architecture and art like Taj Mahal, Maqbra noor Jehan/Jahangir etc.

Pakistan is blessed with old buildings and some of them are tombs, and and some are hindu and Sikh temples and everything in between.

Primitive Tribals will bring all these down by saying poor sentences that you repeated.

Taliban too were primitive tribals and see how they destroyed Afghan history and bombed centuries old statutes that had no consequence for Islam whatsoever.

From your post it is clear as a day that's why whosoever follows the primitive tribals will remain a bedrock of Jahiliyah and thus poor pathetic group who is shunned and hated by the whole world.


peace.
 
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