Musharraf's Interview On CNN From Last Night

[PakShaheen79]

Disappointing and dissembling response centered on long-dead ghosts of your distant past and events that transpired in 1962 and 1971 respectively.

Actually these events in 1971 and promises US made to its ally (Pakistan) and outcome of those is a major cause of current mistrust.
I can understand your avoidance of such debate...

As to Afghanistan and 1988, more dissemblance thus absolutely avoiding the two points I made.

So if you can choose any particular point to discuss everyone has same right on this forum.What is annoying you my dear.

STEERED right around them.

That's fine. Your lot to do as you see fit. It's my responsibility to do what I can to assure that my government doesn't underwrite such while you've considerable available internal resources that remain undirected to your central and active threat.

TTP (gangs of criminals) are no central threat to us. It will always remain India. I think you should do some learning in "Akhand Baharat".

All perfectly accurate and I didn't even require the rhetorical discussion about B.D. or Cuba.
Nopes, point is you can't.

The distrust shall therefore remain when I read the myriad cynical responses to our money and good faith found here. You want a relationship which we'll underwrite, you'll exploit, and we'll trust to remain as such-nothing more.

Who is exploiting who..I think it is clear from the terms under which money is coming. And how much money?? Lol... NATO/US failed to control Taliban traveling from Capital Kabul to a remote Pakistani region. Why to blame only one party when failure is on both side. If Pakistan failed to stop them going to Kabul then how come US/NATO never able to stop them reaching back here?? How much you are spending there and what are results? My dear, Us will have to comoe out of this thinking that Pakistan will win war for you in Afghanistan.
Carrying out worst planned and executed attack against a terrorist organization was your choice... I still don't think had US eliminated Al-CIA,eda in first 24-36 hours back in 2002 what would she has done afterwards??? NO PLANS.. whatsoever, same blunder in Iraq.

Thanks but I prefer an honest enemy over a capricious and deceitful friend. I hope, too, my government shall see likewise. In the interim, you may accept our aid and its conditions or not. I pray for as much forthrightness from both your government and mine as I see displayed here from your peers and myself.

Wish US had done that in any part of world (except Israel)

In this instance, I don't believe that the legitimate interests of either constituency are being fairly represented. Our conditions suggest that we might slowly be learning such at higher levels or that the need to ignore such is fading. Maybe both.

Actually they can't be represented fairly in same time as directions are opposite.

 

[fatman17]

this book also talks about ww11 and the bombing of french cities by allies, if I am nit mistaken, he called the bombing a genocide but retracted and said it was a grave blunder.

so far i have read 120 pages and not come across such comments - the book is strictly based on the afghan war 1979-89.

 

[fatman17]

S-2,
your over-simplification of indo-pak situation is based on what? - it just dosnt work the way u r proposing in reality - look at history - u r a history buff and a good one at that.

just a sample-

In closing, I returned to Pakistan’s longstanding problem with India and asked whether a change in attitude on Pakistan’s part, especially on Kashmir, would change the military dynamic between the two countries. He quipped that he ‘would like to think that waving a wand over Kashmir would instantly create sweetness and light between India and Pakistan, but the legacy of 60 years of distrust — hatred, really — cannot be eradicated.’

written by a australian military officer now retired.

 

[mr42O]

ANy one have video off this intervjue ?

 

[dabong1]

ANy one have video off this intervjue ?

Go to page 1 of this thread and its the first thing thats posted.

 

[PostColonial]

fatman, yes it can be all sweetness and light if the Pakistani military steps aside and allows your harmful policies to be reversed. By your logic, the cold war could never have ended because of the "60 years of distrust."

 

[Javed3]

S-2

“”We were the only element aside from the brigade that maintained operational maps for the brigade battle area. If the brigade TOC took a hit, it gets transferred to our TOC and the battle continues.””

With due respect, you are out of your depth here. Just remember you are in middle of Network Centric Warfare (NCW).

The U.S. Army Geospatial Center (AGC) continues ERDC-TEC's legacy of providing timely, accurate, geospatial support and products to war fighters; and has expanded its mission to support Army Battle Command systems by facilitating the dissemination of relevant geospatial information to every level across the dynamic battlefield environment.

GIS overlays and Common Tactical situation displays are now distributed to everybody, including the logistics guys delivering cookies and coca cola.

 

[Javed3]

S-2:

“”As example, just imagine for a moment a FATAville self-sufficient and too busy to spend time in near-perpetual nihilist irhabism, poverty, and despair while contributing to a tax-base that makes affordable your nat'l defense instead of looking to others to underwrite hundreds of thousands of useless soldiers staring uselessly east awaiting””...

You always avoid the core issue …. US is too damn Stingy, and wants Pakistan to clean its rear end to free, including fighting a “war” of sorts on its soil.

All the problems can disappear and you can set up a sustainable Colonial structure both in Afghanistan and Pakistan if you pay the right price.

Swat ca=n emerge as a world class IT hub, it has great climate, great scenery and a fairly educated and intelligent population. It needs 21st century infrastructure, great telecoms, and incubators setup by the likes of Microsoft, Oracle under a FMF contract.

Waziristan can be a great tourist paradise. Khyber / Orakzai / Kurram agencies can emerge as excellent multi-modal trans border transportation hubs. They need infrastructure investment and a Zero Tariff regime for exports to the USA.

At least 25% of the AFPAK war budget has to be allocated to social uplift schemes. Out of the US$ 20 b / year thus allocated Pushtoon areas in Afghnaistan and FATA should get at least US$ 10 b / year. The rest can go to governments in Kabul and Islamabad.

 

[asq]

I think my friend before you achieve self-prophesied high moral ground, you need to look into mirror.

In 1999, when both countries signed up for resolving all the outstanding issues, which country attacked and tried to capture Kargil? Oh, I thought it was Mujaheddin. No wait, it was the Northern Infantry that got wiped out and their morally high-standing government wont even claim their body! Pathetic.

Not to Dwell on perpetrators who have attacked Mumbai - great suggestion? Ofcourse, why should they? The morally high-standing government are busy attacking another part of country that foreign countries have issued travel warnings to tourists coming to India so that the busy terrorists in Pakistan can attack India.

The curse of living beside Pakistan is so high that if there was a possibility to physically move the land away from terrorist infested land many Indians will endorse the idea - atleast the cost is just one time only!

You are wrong again, 1999 was the answer to your encroachment on siachan by unilateral action your Army took when Pakistani force was not present and you medal ed your soldier when he had not fought and just sneaked into pak. area knowing that pak. forces are not there.

Perpetrator is the one who continues to kill innocent kashmiris and who do not bring to justice the criminal who bombed Samjhota train, we the Pakistani have and justly so, the perpetrators of Bombay to courts.

Now you by blaming Pakistan about terrorism are nothing more than an Indian who is bent on using out of the context instances, innuendos and speculations to put Pakistan down, that is not how it works when discussing things that effects us all.

You have talked about bringing peace to the subcontinent but you elude to the facts of the realities of WOT and Indian involvement in it be it opening several consulates in a small country like Afghanistan near Pak. border. or be it aiding and abating rogue elements in some areas of Pakistan.

You can move you land mass from Next to Pakistan, but you have to wait till Muslims living in India make another partition of India. Than you will be free to move and may be move next to U.S. of A. but wait again u will be like Mexico and we all know what U.S. thinks about Mexico.

So get your facts straits, your thoughts process reillagned and shed your superiority complex for a little more of a humble being

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Given the origin and nature of such an attack, it is sufficient to suggest that you may not be aware of what India might have had in mind otherwise. So can you be sure of what was really asked of them? Forebearance comes to mind.

Your self-pity is mis-placed WRT myself. You will do as you see fit. However it is not, IMHO, the responsibility of the U.S. government to underwrite your defense nor the self-defense of any other country. You spend a considerable sum for the world's seventh largest army, little of which we've seen used in your west. Until last week, you'd done nothing short of freely abdicate the sovereignty of your western lands to others. For that we should "do more"?

Personally I do not EVER see the day that the Indian army chooses to march on your lands. They've no irridentist ambitions of conquest for the sake of such. You possess nothing of value to them.

I understand this gulf of perceptions about India. I will suggest what I suggested to extinct- they have no irridentist ambitions in your country. I've not heard a hint-not even from Pakistanis that they've some long-standing desire to conquer this or that.

Actually majority of the population in Pakistan considers India a major threat when compared to that imposed by the Religious Fanatics and Taliban.
We are the traditional rivals . What India or the Soviets had to gain by infiltrating MUKTI BHANI in East Pakistan (Bangaldesh) . Theres a concrete school of thought that (When it comes to India trust no one ) . Even during the east Pakistan crises the US did extended a support but was of no veil....

We cannot in any way for a second let go the threat posed by our hostile neighbour in the East .
Now when we see the growing indian influence in Afghanistan , It becomes a threat there also and any party bound to assist indians their are undoubtedly cannot be considered worthy to be honest in its dealing with Pakistan . When it comes to prefference obviously India will be preffered over Pakistan . Unless that Prefference is abondoned no force on Earth can commit Pakistan Seventh Largest Army to be party to it to persue its own interests . Sentiments are very high in every Public,Political and Milletery Arena when it comes to dealing with our ARCH-Rival .
The Trust defficit is widening .

Do reffer ...
Bangladesh Liberation War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hamoodur Rahman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And you still say to move our forces to Westren border From the Eastren Border without giving ous the assurances that India would not try to aquire any possible advantages from such a scenario. How can this happen ....

Enemies wait for Enemies to make wrong moves ......And once they do they deffinately try to hunt them down in the most painfull way they could Devise .
Didnt we learned any thing from the Korean War , The Veitenam War , The Iran Iraq War , The War of attrition , The Yum kippur War , The Indo Pak Wars , The Sino Indian War , Bangladesh Liberation War ....

Actions speak louder than words .

 

[fatman17]

fatman, yes it can be all sweetness and light if the Pakistani military steps aside and allows your harmful policies to be reversed. By your logic, the cold war could never have ended because of the "60 years of distrust."[/QUOTE]

distrust is one thing - hatred another - think about it!

 

[S-2]

Quit looking to me to build what should be done by and for yourself.

Simple.

Lack money? Cut your army as opposed to allowing your citizens to live in pepetual poverty and despair. Start there. Once you've done so, look THEN to others for assistance.

Not my problem and I could care less if you choose to use a country to sustain an army as some useless source of overweening but misplaced pride. Lot of good it's done you. The Islamic Emirate of Waziristan is not yours nor shall that change, it now appears, once Rah-e-Nijat is concluded...

...just a neo-colonial punative expedition to put those mehsud tribals in their place and find a few new chiefs a bit more pliant to the whims and diktats from Rawalpindi! Don't believe me? Go ask PAFAce. Not your JOB to "hold, build, and develop" he says.

REALLY?

Says it all. It really, really does and America will be damned fools to assist more of the same. May you choke on your nukes and the rest of your vaunted military machine for all the good they'll ever do you. Those soldiers of yours that die in the west deserve better. Much better and it's not for me to provide what you've already got in plenty sitting uselessly elsewhere...

Thanks.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

There remains a real desire among many Pakistanis here to see the taliban as less than an existential threat to Pakistan. Again, this stems from a desire to attain accomodation WRT the near objective of political domination of Afghanistan.

I agree with this thought . Yes the threat posed by the bad talibans cannot in any way be compared to that posed By India . Having said that as long as the indian threat prvails its obligatory for our agencies to maintain some sort of contacts so that we might evade fighting the WAR with Pro India-Afghans on a large scale.
And certinly would it be wise to destroy the ART being carved out of stone in the time span of nearly 3.5 decades . defiinately not ....
No force on earth can fight the Afghan Pushtu Majority Taliban . The US will eventually come to a point where an understanding will be accomplished with the Afghan Talibs . Further they will be the ultimate breed to have the controll over the reins of the country not the corrupt druglords of Northeren Allignce or the TAJIKS/UZBEKS /HAZARAS .

 

[MastanKhan]

The curse of living beside Pakistan is so high that if there was a possibility to physically move the land away from terrorist infested land many Indians will endorse the idea - atleast the cost is just one time only!

Sir,

Yours stinks as bad as ours----so don't give us this holier than thou lecture. India is surrounded by smaller countries and they all say the same thing---your country needs to learn to think as a big nation---right now your country is still thinking like a puny little nation.

Physically your country has grown, but mentally it is still in its adolescent stage---. When you want to become a leader---you have to first start giving---once you have establish your well meaning policies, then you may start to take control otherwise---other than that---we will be together---till death do us part----it will put a hurting on both of us.

One must not cut off their noses to spite their face---so if you would like to get off your high horse and think with a level head, things may look better.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Quit looking to me to build what should be done by and for yourself.


That is essetially why we are not moving our forces to serve your interests .

Not my problem and I could care less if you choose to use a country to sustain an army as some useless source of overweening but misplaced pride.

Hundereds of indian spies have been arested , alot of indian agents covertly fueling the insurgency in Balochistan and we provide the evidance which is being turned down by your carpett seller politicians serving as indian lobyist working for the greater expantion of Israeli Empire .

...just a neo-colonial punative expedition to put those mehsud tribals in their place and find a few new chiefs a bit more pliant to the whims and diktats from Rawalpindi!

In such a scenario Pakistan will only lookafter its own interests . We are not party to fight a war which essentialy is not ours . However the Army will take action to maintain the Political writ of the country in these areas .