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Musharraf Ki Yaad AAyi Us Kay Janay Kay Baad

Upon taking oath of the President, Musharraf declared that when he joined Army, all he had was three or 400 rupees. Today he owns billions of rupees of property both in the country and abroad (he recently purchased a house in London). How on earth he got so much money in only past 30 or so years? Army doesn't pay that well does it? Now you'll say that politicians do the same and I'll say they are "bloody civilians", lesser humans, un-civilized and corrupt.

I never said that Musharraf is completly honest all I have said and will continue to say is that Musharraf is better than other dishonest, corrupt bunch dying to rule us.

I hope he does get an opportunity to rule Pakistan.
 
Thank God I am not one of those civilized societies otherwise I would have also supported the slaughter of innocent Iraqi children.
It is all about what is in one's capacity. Americans can do it on a grander scale, countries like us do it on much smaller scale, BUT we do. Are we not responsible of what happened in East Pakistan, or what we did and still doing to Kashmiris in the name of their freedom? Are we not responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Afghanistan during the so called Afghan Jihad which actually was an American proxy war we fought as mercenaries?

Those ‘civilized’ countries are every bit better than we are. In every single respect, they are far far ahead of us. It is much easier to practice my religion in America than it was in Pakistan, a so called Islamic country.
 
I never said that Musharraf is completly honest all I have said and will continue to say is that Musharraf is better than other dishonest, corrupt bunch dying to rule us.

I hope he does get an opportunity to rule Pakistan.
Musharraf is better on what basis?
 
SSG


That was a completly uncalled for, "give" - when you say that Mr. Musharraf is not completely honest, have you eveidence thaqt he is dishonest?

His taxes and his assets were open to all to review and how does he afford a home in the UK, he writes, sells books and lectures, a lucrative profession, for him.
 
SSG


That was a completly uncalled for, "give" - when you say that Mr. Musharraf is not completely honest, have you eveidence thaqt he is dishonest?

His taxes and his assets were open to all to review and how does he afford a home in the UK, he writes, sells books and lectures, a lucrative profession, for him.

I have tried that and everyone knows that but people are blinded by their hate. I don`t want discussion to go towards honesty vs dishonesty because I want the discussion on ability to rule this country.
 
Musharraf is better on what basis?

In first govt. of NS, he couldn`t work out his differences with MQM, Army and the Presidency. In the end, NS resigned from the PM`s office. The whole era was full of corruption and a continution of BB`s era.

His biggest weakness is his attitude towards power and his desire for vengance, he wants to be a civilian dictator. NS could have done wonders by simply working with PA and slowly liberating our confined society. NS could have resolved the differences between Army and MQM but instead he showed his political immaturity and shot himself in foot.

NS`second era saw some progress in Punjab and he did go with testing of Nuclear weapon but his weakness was again his childish attitude. He could have used this opp to resolve issue between PA and MQM. He could have stopped his party workers from attacking the SC and he could have paid attention to economic refors but he couldn`t. Instead he tried to put all blame on PA for Kargil. Their was no relief to restrictions on Media.

Musharraf liberated the media, he gave freedom to banks and made economic reforms. Musharraf was also able to end the war between MQM and PA. This resulted in economic activity in Karachi which means improvement for Pakistan. On the other hand Musharraf also finished the Gawader project and improved relations with China. Musharraf`s biggest problem was the politicians around him, e.g, that ghunda who become Pakistan`s law minister.
 
In first govt. of NS, he couldn`t work out his differences with MQM, Army and the Presidency. In the end, NS resigned from the PM`s office. The whole era was full of corruption and a continution of BB`s era.
So what? Having differences is bad thing? There is not a single Pakistani administration of any time that can claim there was no corruption during their time. In fact corruption was at its peak during Zia’s time when the billions of dollars went into the pockets of military and civil bureaucrats.

His biggest weakness is his attitude towards power and his desire for vengance, he wants to be a civilian dictator. NS could have done wonders by simply working with PA and slowly liberating our confined society. NS could have resolved the differences between Army and MQM but instead he showed his political immaturity and shot himself in foot.
Same argument can be made for Musharraf. He was as much power hungry and what he did to the NS was nothing but a show of his hate and vengeance. PM had all the right to dismiss the COAS and even keep him in the air for a smooth transfer of power. NS did nothing outside the constitution and law but Musharraf did everything that if any law exists in this country, would put him behind the bars or even hang for the treason under article VI of the constitution. Differences between Army and MQM was no reason for staging a coup against a democratically elected PM by his subordinate.

NS`second era saw some progress in Punjab and he did go with testing of Nuclear weapon but his weakness was again his childish attitude. He could have used this opp to resolve issue between PA and MQM. He could have stopped his party workers from attacking the SC and he could have paid attention to economic refors but he couldn`t. Instead he tried to put all blame on PA for Kargil. Their was no relief to restrictions on Media.
Why are you repeating this MQM and Army issue? What if it was not resolved? MQM was and still is a terrorist organization, a gang of criminals and thugs. NS did not put all the blame of Kargil on the PA, in-fact he did everything in his capacity to save the PA from an ultimate humiliation by arranging a ceasefire. Lieutenant General Jamhed Gulzar Kayani, who was the corps commander of Rawalpindi at the time of the Kargil war, said that then Premier Nawaz Sharif was not informed about the Kargil operation by then Army Chief General Musharraf. NS only heard about the whole fiasco from the Indian PM and he in his own words "I immediately contacted the Musharraf, asking him what he had done. He (Musharraf) confirmed the allegations leveled by the then Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, and requested him (Nawaz) to contact US President Bill Clinton". Nawaz further added “"I have in my possession the audio recordings of General Musharraf's May 26 and May 29, 1999 telephonic conversation with General Aziz Khan which proves that the general wanted to keep me (NS) in the dark about the Kargil operation".

In the words of retired Lieutenant General Ali Kuli Khan “ Kargil was flawed in terms of its conception, tactical planning and execution. The Kargil incursion was a far bigger tragedy for Pakistan than the civil war which led to the creation of Bangladesh and damaged the country's Kashmir cause, contrary to Musharraf's oft- repeated claim that his misadventure had helped revive the Kashmir issue at the international level," he said, stressing, "The Kargil episode was an unprofessional decision by someone who had served in the Pakistan Army for 40 years. As the architect of Kargil, Musharraf must answer critical questions as to whose brainchild it was and what exactly the broad strategic aim behind the operation was”.

Musharraf liberated the media, he gave freedom to banks and made economic reforms. Musharraf was also able to end the war between MQM and PA. This resulted in economic activity in Karachi which means improvement for Pakistan. On the other hand Musharraf also finished the Gawader project and improved relations with China. Musharraf`s biggest problem was the politicians around him, e.g, that ghunda who become Pakistan`s law minister.
Musharraf did not liberate media, it was the struggle of the media, and the danda (stick) of the USA and European Union that forced Musharraf to liberate media. And this whole economic reforms is nothing but phony. Fact of the matter is, after the 9/11, Pakistanis settled abroad started sending their money home that continued for several years and gave a temporary boost to the economy. In addition to this, Shoukaz Aziz started selling the national assets (and the most profitable ones), which again brought some money in the Government’s coffers. But these measures were not sustainable. Even a layman knows that he can sell his belongings for some money, but once this money is spent, he lost both, the money and his assets. Next time if he needs money, he would have nothing to sell. And that is exactly what happened after 2006-2007. Now where are we standing? If the economical reforms of a militarily-failed General were as good as you say, why are we in this big mess now? He ‘finished’ certain projects that were all initiated in the time of BB or NS. These projects were meant to be finished sooner or later, and the presence or absence of Musharraf would have made no difference.

Regarding the’ Ghnda’ law minister….why he appointed him in the first place? Because Musharraf wanted a ‘ghunda’ to control the law ministry and above all the Supreme Court of Pakistan. This is only one example, otherwise the kind of the politicians he had gathered around him were all incompetent, corrupt and selfish. If that is all he could hand picked, there is some serious problem with him, which again proves that he is not a capable person and lacks the qualities of a ‘leader’.
 
NObody ahs the right, point I was trying to make is that why everyone blames Musharraf alone. Quiet frankly people of Pakistan should be blamed for staying and supporting every single general.

There was always a public opinion and that opinion suppported Musharraf just like that same public opinion supported Zia before him.

Reality today is that Musharraf is a civilian with 8 yrs of governance experience and with very limited corruption charges.

Musharraf's biggest challenge is NS who ran away with his family, leaving his workers behind. This escape of NS left no choice for people like Mushahid Hussain and Sheikh Rashid but to change side.
Many corruption cases and with a wish to rule with an iron fist.

I have personally met an engineer from Pakistan Railways who was working on a gas station abroad because of NS. His only crime was that he didn't sign the paperwork required for NS to eat a fit PR engine.

I have also met a young engineer from Peshawar who came for a job interview and got a job purely on merit. This was during Musharraf's era.

If we are talking about raping the constitution then lets not forget the role of Iftikhar Ch. who took oath on that broken constitution. That oath was adninistered by no one other than Gen. Musharraf.

So when I see all of this hypocrisy and dishonesty, I know I will get a hypocrite to rule my motherland and all I can do is to choose the best amongst those corrupt and hypocrites.

Talking about meeting personally, I met this person who is a friend of Musharaf and he got 500 acres of land from government for agriculture just because he was a friend of Gen. Mush.

Yes it is true that there are hypocrite in a huge numbers BUT if we keep on choosing the least dishonest person than there will be no room left for the right people to come up. think about that!
 
yeah? was it personal?
well i'm not labelling you "selfish" once and for all.I only called you selfish because.........you ,after having a long long love affair with me...finally chose someone else over me...ran away with her and broke my heart

Come on!!! The answer is in my post if only you had read it carefully...Dont I have a right to speak on behalf and represent Pakistani people being one, proud to say?
here:

.........you ,after having a long long love affair with me...finally chose someone else over me...ran away with her and broke my heart

What??? :what:

Now, i really am confused... :what:

When did i question your right to talk about pakistan? So far as i recall, what i have questioned is your slanderous statement about my personal ethics.

Statements such as these have no place in civilised discourse. If you have somthing to say, please do so without having to resort to uncivilised attacks on one's person.

You only know me through this online forum and likewise.

You know nothing of me, about me, my political views or what dressing i like on my salad.

Now lets leave this pointless discussion at this and move on. I can see where you stand and well.... Lets just say i know where i stand.

Good Day.
 
What??? :what:

Now, i really am confused... :what:

When did i question your right to talk about pakistan? So far as i recall, what i have questioned is your slanderous statement about my personal ethics.

Statements such as these have no place in civilised discourse. If you have somthing to say, please do so without having to resort to uncivilised attacks on one's person.

You only know me through this online forum and likewise.

You know nothing of me, about me, my political views or what dressing i like on my salad.

Now lets leave this pointless discussion at this and move on. I can see where you stand and well.... Lets just say i know where i stand.

Good Day.

lol:D
hey RescueRanger...I was being sarcastic and I'm surprised you didnt get it.I wrote all that just to let you know that I dont know you personally and why would I comment on your personality?

the reason you came up with to express your fondness for Musharraf...I found THAT reason selfish(have to admit I was pissed off).Pakistan comes first right? so I'm sholly if I've offended you.I've nothin personal against you let me straighten this out.Oh and yeah...Lets just call it off cause it is indeed..pointless and gets nowhere.You'll be Musharraf fan no matter how hard I try to convince you and so will be others.I dont like him and it will be a fact for all eternity.

gee....I seem to have eaten a humble pie and I won't feel hungry for a couple o' days now:D
 
Qaasrk,
The Chak plot he got is i am sure he got with a lot of concessions as he was the Army Chief and we all know how Generals get land with very cheap rate but now he is earning a lot of money.On his first lecture he was paid 100k$+ so i am damn sure he can afford to buy a flat or small house in UK.
 
lol:D
hey RescueRanger...I was being sarcastic and I'm surprised you didnt get it.I wrote all that just to let you know that I dont know you personally and why would I comment on your personality?

the reason you came up with to express your fondness for Musharraf...I found THAT reason selfish(have to admit I was pissed off).Pakistan comes first right? so I'm sholly if I've offended you.I've nothin personal against you let me straighten this out.Oh and yeah...Lets just call it off cause it is indeed..pointless and gets nowhere.You'll be Musharraf fan no matter how hard I try to convince you and so will be others.I dont like him and it will be a fact for all eternity.

gee....I seem to have eaten a humble pie and I won't feel hungry for a couple o' days now:D

Do you have a slice of that pie to share? :cheers:

We are all Pakistani's and damn proud, regardless of who we support i am sure you would be just as loyal to the hilal-e-percham as i am or anyother redblooded pakistani is.

Pakistan today, tomorrow and forever! Ameen! :pakistan:
 
So what? Having differences is bad thing? There is not a single Pakistani administration of any time that can claim there was no corruption during their time. In fact corruption was at its peak during Zia’s time when the billions of dollars went into the pockets of military and civil bureaucrats. ............

I am going to copy and paste Rescue Ranger here becuase this debate can go on and on ... only time will tell ...

We are all Pakistani's and damn proud, regardless of who we support i am sure you would be just as loyal to the hilal-e-percham as i am or anyother redblooded pakistani is.

Pakistan today, tomorrow and forever! Ameen!
:pakistan:
 

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