Musharraf Ki Yaad AAyi Us Kay Janay Kay Baad

[BATMAN]

^^ fikar na karo agli bari ameeron ki hay... hilary clinton ka order a gia hay.

 

[SSGPA1]

"efforts and sacrifices" !!!! you must be joking. It,s really difficult to explain the entire dynamics of POLITICAL PROCESS in just a few sentences, nevertheless i,ll make an effort to just point to the blunders made by Pervez Musharraf on the political and economic fronts, besides his utter failure in the war against terror.

Ahh, here we go again. Another person who thinks that he understands the dynamics of political process. I could care less about your explianation but it is in my nature to responsd back to allegations without any evidence. My only request is to read my response with a cool head and don't be trigger happy.

Just keep in mind that the SUPREME COURT of the country gave him three years to rule like a dictator and amend the constitution .(for which he'd not even requested)

It may be your personal opinion but not the fact. He was no dictator as his rule was completly endorsed by the Parliament of Pakistan and the SCoP.

On April 13, 2005, in the "Judgment on 17th Amendment and President's Uniform Case", CJP and SCoP dismissed all petitions challenging Gen. Musharraf's consistitutional amendments. Gen. Mushjarraf also had the same approval from the Parliament.

Whereas the same court is making life tough for the political govt right in its infancy.

I partially agree because NS and PML-N has been given a clean chit who are equally corrupt as their brothers in power. However, if SC and the other courts show a desire and ability to take action against NS then they will find more support and respect.

Remember sir, your economy took a downward slide much before an elected govt was in the driving seat. During the period of interim govt artificial means were being tried to avoid the inevitable burst of the bubble. Let me make one thing clear over here that economy can never grow unless your exports are larger than your imports. Ours being an agro based economy, we can never ever achieve real growth unless we fully exploit our agricultural potential.This includes increase in per acre yield of all crops, ensuring a fair price to the grower, economizing on the available water for irrigation and quite a few other measures. To explain my point in simplest words, i would give you the example of how from 40 kg of wheat seed we get 50 times more produce, this is real growth.Selling cars in the market which will run on imported fuel is not necessarily the true indicator of the economic growth. Luxury items flooded the market but no attention was paid to increase the production of electricity.

I agree with the export vs. import principal but we are not discussing economics here, pls read post # 366 for detailed accomplishments of Gen. Musharraf's regime.

Gen. Musharraf's govt. was able to hold dollar in the 60s and was able to get rid of the IMF which is an accomplishment in itself as it was a major demand from the people of Pakistan.

Now the power crisis has forced the industries to reduce their production thus laying off labour and making people jobless, moreover unable to meet the orders from international market and losing our share of foreign exchange.

Why this power crisis didn't take place in Gen. Musharraf's regime? His team was able to manage the flow of funds much better. This crisis is artificial so the likes of Raja Ashraf and others can make commission from IPP. A reason for a great fincial mind to resign.

Power crisis is completly the fault of Raja P. Ashraf, look at the video below for his lies:

Feel free to join the group:

Ssg Pa-one | Facebook

Why didn't P.M. go for dams that were to be so vital for water conservation and cheap power generation ?

Wrong sir ji, there were dams and other projects started in Gen. Musharraf's regime which are now coming to a completion, e.g, Ghazi Barotha project and Bhasha dam etc.

Your complain should be about Kala Bagh dam and I agree that he should have done more for building KB dam but I also look at the Gawader port. 100% credit goes to Gen. Musharraf and his team for building this port for Pakistan.

Both NS and BB build cases against each other and now I hope you will understand that why people support Gen. Musharraf because he was able to start and complete somethings. KUCH TO KIYA AAKHIR!

Unfortunately the man he chose to give boost to the economy was a banker who would never think beyond monthly, half yearly and yearly closings and/or making profits. This is what Shaukat Aziz did and the moment he left the economy came tumbling down. Had their been real economic growth, its momentum would have carried us to at least 2 to 3 years before coming to a standstill.

Problem is that Mr. Zardari carry a bag of reputation which has reduced the confidence of investors and that started the problems with our economy. SA was more than a banker. Even though I love this show, pls don't quote Hasb-e-haal .

Pakistan's fiscal performance was praised by IMF and World Bank. The World Bank further reiterated that Pakistan's Economic growth bolstered International confidence.

IMF Praises: IMF's new Middle East director Mr. George Abed, said he was "very pleased with the record of Pakistan in the past three years of continued macroeconomic and financial stabilisation and we have begun to think of Pakistan as a country of promise and a country of potentially high rate of growth."

Asian Development Bank also praised Pakistan's Micro-Finance.

Here are the links for you:


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

BBC NEWS | Business | IMF praise for Pakistan

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Pakistan Times | Top Stories: IMF, WB praise Pakistan's economic and fiscal performance

On political front the matters were handled in the crudest manner possible. The way an artificial political party was cobbled together before 2002 elections and the manner in which matters were handled to break away members of parliament from other parties made the whole process look a farce.

Has politics in Pakistan been any different?? ZA Bhutto recieved help from Gen. Ayub and in return supported the rule of Gen. Ayub and then formed PPP.

NS was literally picked up by Gen. Zia and because of Gen. Zia, Nawaz Sharif is popular till today.

IK and JI both supported Gen. Musharraf initailly.

Benazir Bhutto marhooma also wlecomed the change in Pakistan after Gen. sahib took over.

On the war front lesser we talk better it would be. The most unfortunate part of the bluff was its adverse effect on the morale of the troops fighting the insurgents . Lives were lost, troops were ridiculed and it was made to look as if terrorists were superior fighters than the troops of Pak army. The basic principles of war were blatantly violated just to achieve myopic objectives. Aren't these the same troops who have now made the insurgents look like a disorganized bunch ! We've lost officers and soldiers but the pride has been restored. The army has displayed professionalism and commitment to the cause and has come out of the Swat and South Waziristan operations with its head high.
I believe the enlightened moderation gave us five times higher number of madressahs in the country at the end of his tenure as compared to the time of his takeover. The country was knee deep in trouble as far as the internal security situation was concerned. The writ of the state was almost non existant, crime was rampant, corruption was the order of the day and the community suffering the most were the law abiding citizens of the country.

Gen Musharraf declared extremissim a threat when he become CEO in 1999. When you go after such ruthless militants then the internal situation of the country will become unstable, however, we always hoped that PA will win against these extremists. This was necessary for Pakistan and I give him credot to start this change.

I agree this took time and as usual Pakistanis became unpatient but if you compare it with all the wars in our neighbourhood then you will realize that this war is the best fought war.

Imagine if Gen Musharraf was in power then people would have been praising him for leading us to this victory.

How can you forget his leadership after 9/11 and after the earthquake?

Gen. Musharraf is a human so he has his faults and I don't expect him to be an angel but he is better than NS and Zardari as a leader my friend.

 

[qsaark]

Lots of disinformation on the 'achievements' of the Musharraf regime in the above post. A while back, I had compiled a list of how Mr. Musharraf served Pakistan's interest first; for the interest of the members, I am reposting it.

Well he was not a fine example, but a finest example of an 'imposed' leader who 'forcefully' guided his nation to an ultimate doom. Would you like to highlight those Pakistani interests, which he served first? OK, let me help you here.

1. The Ex-PM Sharif and Ex-PM Vajpaee were negotiating for the peace in Lahore, and the renegade Musharraf was sending troops (without taking into confidence the Corp Commanders, the Services Chiefs of Air force and Navy, the PM, the Cabinet) and sabotaging those peace talks between India and Pakistan; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

2. When the PM dismissed him (with full constitutional and legal authority) from his post due to the disobedience and unprofessionalism he showed during Kargil, he reinstated himself unconstitutionally and illegally with the help of the other renegade Corp Commanders and threw the elected PM into the jail and even got him punished in the false accounts by the lower courts; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

3. He allowed the American troops in his country, and gave them airfields to carry out attacks on the neighboring Islamic country; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

4. He sold out undisclosed number of Pakistanis (innocent until proven guilty) to the Americans without first trying them in the Pakistani courts of law; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

5. He instructed his serving General of the political wing of ISI to rig the general elections and brought PML(Q) and so-called Islamic parties into power, and used this illegitimate parliament as a rubber stamp to further his ambitions; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

6. He, through the help of his illegitimate Parliament (result of rigging) and sold-out/oppressed Judges (result of LFO), adulterated the constitution and introduced clauses in order to achieve full amnesty for his unconstitutional actions and illegal rule; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

7. He mishandled the Lal Mosque issue, which resulted in the loss of life (both the civilians and the Army personnel) and resulted in a widespread anger against the regime, and the Army; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

8. He, through his banker PM, Shoukat Aziz sold out the profitable national assets on the rates far below their actual value and not to the highest bidders. Only Pakistan Steel managed to escape and that too because of the intervention of the honorable Chief Justice; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

9. Under his regime, the nation was deliberately and at institutional level misguided on the economical condition/progress. The government’s coffers were artificially inflated due to the money sent home by the overseas Pakistanis post 9/11 and which had nothing to do with the economical policies of his or his banker PM Shoukat Aziz. His banker PM introduced novel and totally misguiding scales of measuring the economical growth, that were, number of cars running on the roads and the cell phones sold; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

10. He dismissed the honorable Justices, put them and their family members under house arrests, and tried to destroy the judiciary; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

11. He patronized a known terrorist lingual organization in Karachi, hired the terrorist elements of this organization to hijack Karachi in order to stop the visit of the CJP and publicly supported their terrorizing actions that included a dozen deaths on May 11; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

12. He mishandled the Balochistan issue, gave a free hand to the Army and intelligence agencies to abduct anybody anywhere. None of the abductees ever presented into the courts of law or given a chance of legal defense. Sardar Akbar Bugti was extra-judicially murdered and his rival clan was ‘awarded’ the right to rule Sui and Dera Bugti; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

13. He introduced the black ordinance called NRO to cut a shameful deal with the exiled political leaders, pardoned them for all their corruption even murder charges in return of the extension of his presidency; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

14. He mischievously tried to bag the credit for freeing up the media which in reality was the result of the selfless struggle and sacrifices largely by the press and to some extent electronic media and lots of pressure from the free-media-obsessed Western countries; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

 

[SSGPA1]

ISLAMABAD: Former president Pervez Musharraf is moving log stock and barrel to Abu Dhabi within a week’s time, in what informed insiders said, “would also make him more accessible to his supporters.”

According to highly reliable sources, while the royal family of Abu Dhabi has extended a warm welcome to the former Pakistani dictator and is helping him settle down comfortably in his new home, a much larger helping hand is being lent by three Pakistani origin businessmen. Two of them are based in the United States while the third is running a successful business house in the United Arab Emirates.

A family source, however, insisted that the primary motive for General’s move from London to Abu Dhabi is his desire to see his mother more often, who is living in Karachi and has refused to move to London. Dueto her frailness, family sources maintain, she is unable to undertake the long flights to London while Abu Dhabi is both warmer and only a couple of hours flying time away.

Insiders also told The News that with Musharraf based in the UAE, it would be far more economical also for his supporters to travel there, both in terms of lower air fare, time saving, and much cheaper boarding lodging expenses. Whether anyone in his right mind can afford supporting a dictator who repeatedly violated the Constitution however is another matter.

Pakistan News Service - PakTribune

 

[sparklingway]

Why this power crisis didn't take place in Gen. Musharraf's regime?

Complete denial mode. I guess you have forgotten the summers without electricity in '07 and '08.

"The country may plunge into energy crisis by the year 2007 due to rising electricity demand which enters into double digit figure following increasing sale of electrical and electronic appliances on lease finance, it is reliably learnt Thursday" - Energy Bulletin, July 2, 2004

Ministry of Water and Power figures:

Do you see a trend? I see one. From surplus to deficit in the times when the Commando ruled the roost in more than one ways.

Power Generation Capacity (by year) - This includes Private Power produced by Industries for own usage

Year Generation Capacity %age Increase

1998-99 : 15,934 MW
1999-00 : 16,578 MW 4.042
2000-01 : 17,668 MW 6.575
2001-02 : 17,953 MW 1.613
2002-03 : 17,953 MW 0.000
2003-04 : 19,522 MW 8.739 - Fertilizer Industry self production
2002-03 : 19.550 MW 0.143
2002-03 : 19.550 MW 0.000
2002-03 : 19.681 MW 0.671

All data based from figures acquired from NEPRA (National Electric Power Regulatory Authority)'s website including Annual Reports and State of Industry Reports.

Wrong sir ji, there were dams and other projects started in Gen. Musharraf's regime which are now coming to a completion, e.g, Ghazi Barotha project and Bhasha dam etc.

Always, always check your facts. Beloved commando never "started" the Ghazi Barotha project. Coming up with the half truths is worse than coming up with none.


ADB report "construction commencing in early 1996"

Land acquisition, Construction and Civil Works, Electrical and Mechanical Works and everything else started way before the general came in. It was completed when he was sitting on the throne. He deserves no credit for it.

Read "E. Project Schedule" on page 16 of the report for the reasons in the 3 year delays in the GB project.
Ghazi Barotha Hydropower Project - Asian Development Bank


Also, Hydel represents only 31.88% of our total generation. Thermal constitutes 67.47%.

This crisis is artificial so the likes of Raja Ashraf and others can make commission from IPP. A reason for a great fincial mind to resign.

Power crisis is completly the fault of Raja P. Ashraf.

RPPs are a debatable issue and kickbacks in those deals aren't out of question but Raja Pervaiz Ashraf did not create this crisis nor is he responsible for it. You can complain that their response hasn't been as praiseworthy as it should have been but you cannot blame it on him. Do you even remember the name of the previous Federal Minister for Water and Power? Nobody does because he freaking didn't do anything.

Circular debt does not grow in a day or two. It took 4 1/2 years for the circular debt to grow to this enormous size. Thanks to General Sb and Shortcut Aziz.

The problem of circular debt in power sector: In the beginning of 2009, the circular debt (see the table below) in the energy sector alone stood at nearly 400 billion Pak. Rupees (approximately $5 billion), forcing most Independent Power Producers (IPPs) to scale down their production to the minimum. The government made some urgent payments to various “players” in the power sector including the oil refineries, petroleum companies and IPPs, resulting in about 2,000 megawatts of additional power.

The following table explains the problem:
Who has to Pay To Whom Amount (Billions Rs.)


The current govt has tried to pay the circular debt but they are unable to create money out of nowhere. Shaukat Tarin on Feb 24, “In real terms the circular debt has swelled to Rs108 billion which mainly includes non-payment of Rs42 billion by KESC, Rs21 billion by the government of Sindh and Rs15-16 billion from commercial consumers to the Pakistan Electric Power Company (Pepco).”

Pakistan State Oil owes Parco Rs27 billion. Parco has borrowed Rs39 billion to make itself operational with Rs450 million being paid as interest.

Meanwhile, the PSO’s outstanding amount has swelled to Rs103 billion, mainly owed by the power sector. The PSO has also stopped the jet fuel supply to the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), as its cheque of Rs1.86 billion has bounced. The Pakistan State Oil (PSO) owes refineries some Rs67 billion.

Gen. Musharraf's govt. was able to hold dollar in the 60s and was able to get rid of the IMF which is an accomplishment in itself as it was a major demand from the people of Pakistan.

Providing huge subsidies on electricity and gas keep inflation down artificially, the bubble bursts later. Our economy has gone down the drain not because Shaukat Tarin or Ishaq Dar didn't manage it properly or Zardari took a share out of it but because of years of mismanagement, artificially reduced inflation and the global economic crisis. Also, 2003-04 saw an unprecedented global economic boom. Times are different now.

Both NS and BB build cases against each other

General Sb's biggest slogan "Ehtesab" was the biggest farce of all. However depotic the 2nd govt of NS was and however politically motivated the Ehtesab Commission was, you have to give them due credit for their work if they did it. NAB has been a complete failure, plea bargains to avoid long court cases thus guilty people going back to US to live for free. Ethesab Commission for the first and only time in our history uncovered "foreign" and "Swiss" accounts. Money trails were uncovered in detail for the first and only time. Senator Saif ur Rehman was an evil guy and all his actions were mere political vengeance but his output was visible. NAB relied only on the earlier evidences to accuse BB/AZ. Evidences of corruption against NS were weak because BB's govt's never managed to do the kind of uncovering the Ehtesab Commission did.

Slogan : "Ehtesab"
Result : Complete failure. Nobody prosecuted. No new evidences. Plea bargains. Ultimately deals with "corruption queen and king" to save own skin.

 

[Icarus]

1. The Ex-PM Sharif and Ex-PM Vajpaee were negotiating for the peace in Lahore, and the renegade Musharraf was sending troops (without taking into confidence the Corp Commanders, the Services Chiefs of Air force and Navy, the PM, the Cabinet) and sabotaging those peace talks between India and Pakistan; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Highly unlikely, do you think a force of 5000 men was mobilized along with artillery support and the prime minister did not even get wind of it ? Please ponder over this.

2. When the PM dismissed him (with full constitutional and legal authority) from his post due to the disobedience and unprofessionalism he showed during Kargil, he reinstated himself unconstitutionally and illegally with the help of the other renegade Corp Commanders and threw the elected PM into the jail and even got him punished in the false accounts by the lower courts; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Incorrect again, the CoAS cannot be removed with the snap of the fingers and anyways, it's the President's responsibility to appoint people to posts like CoAS and CJ, not the prime minister's.

3. He allowed the American troops in his country, and gave them airfields to carry out attacks on the neighboring Islamic country; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Incorrect, they were not given bases, they were given logistic "Adday" from where they could move their rations and vehicles to Afghanistan.

4. He sold out undisclosed number of Pakistanis (innocent until proven guilty) to the Americans without first trying them in the Pakistani courts of law; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Any other than Aafia Siddique that you can quote ? Even her own disappearance is shrouded in mystery as her family claims she was abducted from Islamabad while her husband says she was abducted from Afghanistan.

5. He instructed his serving General of the political wing of ISI to rig the general elections and brought PML(Q) and so-called Islamic parties into power, and used this illegitimate parliament as a rubber stamp to further his ambitions; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Source ??????

6. He, through the help of his illegitimate Parliament (result of rigging) and sold-out/oppressed Judges (result of LFO), adulterated the constitution and introduced clauses in order to achieve full amnesty for his unconstitutional actions and illegal rule; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Actually he was elected President by a people's vote(referendum).

7. He mishandled the Lal Mosque issue, which resulted in the loss of life (both the civilians and the Army personnel) and resulted in a widespread anger against the regime, and the Army; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Lal masjid was a very good step, i wish it had been taken earlier......How long can we bear "Dadi Girri" on the name of Islam.
They were not there praying in the mosque, they were just there trouble making. How many have you seen with armed watch towers and how many times have you been stopped from praying in a mosque because you are from a different area ? And before you label me a hypocrite and slam a Fatwa on me, let me remind you what was instructed about one such mosque, Masjid-e-Zarar...................

8. He, through his banker PM, Shoukat Aziz sold out the profitable national assets on the rates far below their actual value and not to the highest bidders. Only Pakistan Steel managed to escape and that too because of the intervention of the honorable Chief Justice; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Profitable ???? Get a grip, those "Profitable National Assets" were bankrupt and an unnecessary load on the economy.

9. Under his regime, the nation was deliberately and at institutional level misguided on the economical condition/progress. The government’s coffers were artificially inflated due to the money sent home by the overseas Pakistanis post 9/11 and which had nothing to do with the economical policies of his or his banker PM Shoukat Aziz. His banker PM introduced novel and totally misguiding scales of measuring the economical growth, that were, number of cars running on the roads and the cell phones sold; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Wow...................DENIAL.....................The whole world knows that Pervez Musharraf's economic policies were great..............Dollar remained fixed at Rs.62 for 8 years..................call that misguided....

10. He dismissed the honorable Justices, put them and their family members under house arrests, and tried to destroy the judiciary; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

They were asked to take oath by the PCO, this isn't the first one you know Nawaz Sharif also issued a PCO during his time.

11. He patronized a known terrorist lingual organization in Karachi, hired the terrorist elements of this organization to hijack Karachi in order to stop the visit of the CJP and publicly supported their terrorizing actions that included a dozen deaths on May 11; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Conspiracy theories..............................Source ???????????

12. He mishandled the Balochistan issue, gave a free hand to the Army and intelligence agencies to abduct anybody anywhere. None of the abductees ever presented into the courts of law or given a chance of legal defense. Sardar Akbar Bugti was extra-judicially murdered and his rival clan was ‘awarded’ the right to rule Sui and Dera Bugti; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Incorrect, Dera Bugti MEANS The Home of Bugtis, how can it be given away ? Check your source, they are still there.

13. He introduced the black ordinance called NRO to cut a shameful deal with the exiled political leaders, pardoned them for all their corruption even murder charges in return of the extension of his presidency; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

Incorrect, NRO was issued to finish old cases in which nothing was being proven but millions of rupees were being spent annually.

14. He mischievously tried to bag the credit for freeing up the media which in reality was the result of the selfless struggle and sacrifices largely by the press and to some extent electronic media and lots of pressure from the free-media-obsessed Western countries; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

[/QUOTE]

Know any media persons ? Even they accept that Musharraf was behind the growth of media in Pakistan................Don't live in denial.

 

[sparklingway]

Any other than Aafia Siddique that you can quote ? Even her own disappearance is shrouded in mystery as her family claims she was abducted from Islamabad while her husband says she was abducted from Afghanistan.

Dealt in this post and subsequent.

Incorrect again, the CoAS cannot be removed with the snap of the fingers and anyways, it's the President's responsibility to appoint people to posts like CoAS and CJ, not the prime minister's.

My friend, you are incorrect. The powers to appoint the services chiefs were with the PM in 1999. Forgotten the power grabbing by NS and "Ameer ul Momineen" fiasco?

Actually he was elected President by a people's vote(referendum).

Referendum : Musharraf vs Musharraf. No need to even say anything.

Lal masjid was a very good step, i wish it had been taken earlier......How long can we bear "Dadi Girri" on the name of Islam.

I agree almost entirely.

Get a grip, those "Profitable National Assets" were bankrupt and an unnecessary load on the economy.

Like PSM or PTCL?
Pakistan Steel Mills (PSM): Dealt with these only minutes ago in another thread.

Privatization was to take place in 2006. A 75% share was given to a consortium of Russian Magnitogorsk Iron & Steel Works, Saudi Arabia-based Al-Tuwairqi Group of Companies and Arif Habib Securities (Arif Habib is a famous Shaukat Aziz henchman allegedly involved in many other financial scandals with his buddy). The SC after a suo moto notice by the CJ declared the privatization null and void deeming it in "bad taste", clearly meaning that there were a lot of dirty hands involved in the matter.

It has been speculated that the worth of the land itself was more than the Rs. 21.75 Billion the industry was sold for.

"Speakers on the occasion pointed out that the Rs300 billion worth concern had been handed over to the private sector parties at a throw-away price of Rs21.75 billion"

"The speakers said that according to the PS finance director, the mills had generated Rs26.1 billion revenue in 2000 and its pre-tax profit stood at Rs 4.85 billion. ... in the year 2004-05, the mills had generated Rs 31 billion revenues and its pre-tax profit was Rs10 billion. He had quoted the tax amount paid to the government at Rs8.9 billion"

"The labour leaders pointed out that present value of the PS land, at the current rate of Rs 20 million per acre, was around Rs92 billion whereas the mills’ other assets had been estimated at more than Rs150 billion"

Courtesy : Dawn, May 25 - 2006

So, this raises fingers. An industry that had pre tax profits of Rs. 10 billion was being sold for Rs. 21 billion, hardly a fifth of its value and even less than the revenue it generates. Gross Profit in 2004-2005 was 189 million USD and a 75% share was being sold for 302 million USD.




Enough said. No further arguments necessary.

(you might not be interested, but here is the complete judgment of the PSM case - CONSTITUTION PETITION NO. 9 OF 2006 (Wattan Party through Versus Federation of Pakistan) & CIVIL PETITION NOs. 345(Pakistan Steel Peoples Workers Union, CBA Versus Federation of Pakistan) & 394 OF 2006(Federation of Pakistan Versus Pakistan Steel Peoples Workers Union)

No further comments necessary.


PTCL : 26% shares sold to Etisalat in 2005 for 2.598 Billion USD. Even after 5 years, 799.3 million USD have not been paid. PTCL's profits have fallen and its in a complete mess. Privatization only brought more troubles. Shiekh CEOs are hated by the work force as they're eating they company down. Don't say that they've brought DSL or any new services as this will show lack of knowledge in this regard. The issue has been discussed on Pro-Pakistani as well.

"At the time of its privatization in 2005, PTCL had posted revenues of 84 billion rupees, with earnings before interest, tax and depreciation of 54 billion rupees and net profit of 27 billion rupees."

"In the four years post-privatization, earnings fell to almost 11 billion rupees, a rate equivalent to a negative growth of 21 per cent per annum. Similarly, the profit margin (based on EBITDA or earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) declined from an average of 71 per cent over the four years prior to privatization to 50 per cent over the four years since privatization"

HBL, UBL : 51% shares of Habib Bank Limited (HBL) shares were sold to the the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development (AKFED), a subsidiary of the Aga Khan Development Network, on January 4, 2004, for a bid of Rs 22.4 billion. This bid was allegedly less than the estimated worth of the total existing assets of the bank which are reported to have been around Rs 23.7 billion at that time. This does not include the value of more than 1400 branches inside Pakistan and branches in 26 other countries as well

United Bank Limited (UBL) 25.5% share was sold to a Consortium of Abu Dhabi Group (UAE) & Bestway Holdings Limited (UK) for Rs 12 billion (sometimes referred as 13 billion).

"MCB submitted the highest bid of Rs 8.5 billion. Others two submitted bids worth Rs 4.8 billion and Rs 4.5 billion respectively. Therefore, MCB emerged the highest bidder"

Rs 4.5 billion wass the original bid of the consortium to whom UBL was sold later. They were clearly not expecting a high bid from MCB as Shortcut had already promised them the sale. Then the media kicked in and then GoP was forced to accept its "wrongdoings" and corruption.

"State Bank of Pakistan cleared all the three bidders but suggested to the Privatization Commission to ask the participants to improve their bids. MCB was prompt in raising its bid from Rs 8.5 billion to Rs 12 billion and the revised bid was accepted by the Commission"

Later, "Abu Dhabi Consortium sent a fax indicating its intention to match MCB's revised bid" - Clear indication that a massive 8 billion rupees corruption was going to take place (from the original bid) while the final bid is also highly debated. You can sort throuigh only archives and find dispassionate reviews on this.

Hence, the Privatization commenced by the Commando Govt was full of exposed corruption, shady deals and huge kickbacks. Don't claim that it somehow brought investment and these institutions were national burdens which somehow became profitable later on.

Dollar remained fixed at Rs.62 for 8 years..................call that misguided.

This is the only economic marker you know of. I am not educated in the fields of economics and finance but I can at least understand the basics.

Providing huge subsidies on electricity and gas keep inflation down artificially, the bubble bursts later. Our economy has gone down the drain not because Shaukat Tarin or Ishaq Dar didn't manage it properly or Zardari took a share out of it but because of years of mismanagement, artificially reduced inflation and the global economic crisis. Also, 2003-04 saw an unprecedented global economic boom. Times are different now.

Conspiracy theories..............................Source ???????????

MQM was brought into the federal and provincial governments, that's what he wanted to say. Is that a conspiracy theory? Don't counter this by saying that they are in the federal and provincial govt now as well. Times were different in 2002. They have entrenched themselves in the past 8 years thanks to the patronization received at the hands of the general.

Incorrect, they were not given bases, they were given logistic "Adday" from where they could move their rations and vehicles to Afghanistan.

So Bandari and Jacobabad were just "adday" to move rations. I wonder why a C-130 and a Predator crashed from the bases in Jan and May 2002 respectively....

Incorrect, NRO was issued to finish old cases in which nothing was being proven but millions of rupees were being spent annually.

Give credit to the enemy when he serves but don't defend pointlessly. It was to save his own skin. Brought the "corruption king and queen" as he used to say back to save his throne.

Incorrect, Dera Bugti MEANS The Home of Bugtis, how can it be given away ? Check your source, they are still there.

You have failed to answer the question raised about extrajudicial murder of Akbar Bugti and the case of "intelligence agencies" abducting people. A two bit intelligence officer has no right to keep people in custody without judicial remand. He is a servant of the state, not a state thug. Do not counter this by saying that Akbar Bugti was unpatriotic or was working hand in hand with RAW, that would be out of context and moving away from the debate.

Know any media persons ? Even they accept that Musharraf was behind the growth of media in Pakistan................Don't live in denial.

You don't seem to know those who enjoyed jails in the second NS govt and who fought for their rights. Commando sb opened the doors and I give credit to him for that but it was time anyways. The doors would have opened sooner or later. He gets only partial credit for this. The other half goes tot he journalists enjoyed prison sentences, baton charges and state torture.

Support your arguments with fact, figures and numbers. Hunches, speculations and opinions aren't solid proofs. I will agree with you on many matters like Lal Masjid but you have to come up with strong arguments rather than short answers devoid avoid any factual strength

 

[Icarus]

My friend, you are incorrect. The powers to appoint the services chiefs were with the PM in 1999. Forgotten the power grabbing by NS and "Ameer ul Momineen" fiasco?

Find yourself a copy of the 72 constitution, the Prime Minister advises the president regarding these matters but without the President's consent and signature, appointment cannot be carried out.
This clause is associated with the one that states that "The President of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will be the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces".

Referendum : Musharraf vs Musharraf. No need to even say anything

.

Care to elaborate ?

Like PSM or PTCL?
Pakistan Steel Mills (PSM): Dealt with these only minutes ago in another thread.

Privatization was to take place in 2006. A 75% share was given to a consortium of Russian Magnitogorsk Iron & Steel Works, Saudi Arabia-based Al-Tuwairqi Group of Companies and Arif Habib Securities (Arif Habib is a famous Shaukat Aziz henchman allegedly involved in many other financial scandals with his buddy). The SC after a suo moto notice by the CJ declared the privatization null and void deeming it in "bad taste", clearly meaning that there were a lot of dirty hands involved in the matter.

It has been speculated that the worth of the land itself was more than the Rs. 21.75 Billion the industry was sold for.

"Speakers on the occasion pointed out that the Rs300 billion worth concern had been handed over to the private sector parties at a throw-away price of Rs21.75 billion"

"The speakers said that according to the PS finance director, the mills had generated Rs26.1 billion revenue in 2000 and its pre-tax profit stood at Rs 4.85 billion. ... in the year 2004-05, the mills had generated Rs 31 billion revenues and its pre-tax profit was Rs10 billion. He had quoted the tax amount paid to the government at Rs8.9 billion"

"The labour leaders pointed out that present value of the PS land, at the current rate of Rs 20 million per acre, was around Rs92 billion whereas the mills’ other assets had been estimated at more than Rs150 billion"

Courtesy : Dawn, May 25 - 2006

So, this raises fingers. An industry that had pre tax profits of Rs. 10 billion was being sold for Rs. 21 billion, hardly a fifth of its value and even less than the revenue it generates. Gross Profit in 2004-2005 was 189 million USD and a 75% share was being sold for 302 million USD.




Enough said. No further arguments necessary.

(you might not be interested, but here is the complete judgment of the PSM case - CONSTITUTION PETITION NO. 9 OF 2006 (Wattan Party through Versus Federation of Pakistan) & CIVIL PETITION NOs. 345(Pakistan Steel Peoples Workers Union, CBA Versus Federation of Pakistan) & 394 OF 2006(Federation of Pakistan Versus Pakistan Steel Peoples Workers Union)

No further comments necessary.


PTCL : 26% shares sold to Etisalat in 2005 for 2.598 Billion USD. Even after 5 years, 799.3 million USD have not been paid. PTCL's profits have fallen and its in a complete mess. Privatization only brought more troubles. Shiekh CEOs are hated by the work force as they're eating they company down. Don't say that they've brought DSL or any new services as this will show lack of knowledge in this regard. The issue has been discussed on Pro-Pakistani as well.

"At the time of its privatization in 2005, PTCL had posted revenues of 84 billion rupees, with earnings before interest, tax and depreciation of 54 billion rupees and net profit of 27 billion rupees."

"In the four years post-privatization, earnings fell to almost 11 billion rupees, a rate equivalent to a negative growth of 21 per cent per annum. Similarly, the profit margin (based on EBITDA or earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) declined from an average of 71 per cent over the four years prior to privatization to 50 per cent over the four years since privatization"

HBL, UBL : 51% shares of Habib Bank Limited (HBL) shares were sold to the the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development (AKFED), a subsidiary of the Aga Khan Development Network, on January 4, 2004, for a bid of Rs 22.4 billion. This bid was allegedly less than the estimated worth of the total existing assets of the bank which are reported to have been around Rs 23.7 billion at that time. This does not include the value of more than 1400 branches inside Pakistan and branches in 26 other countries as well

United Bank Limited (UBL) 25.5% share was sold to a Consortium of Abu Dhabi Group (UAE) & Bestway Holdings Limited (UK) for Rs 12 billion (sometimes referred as 13 billion).

"MCB submitted the highest bid of Rs 8.5 billion. Others two submitted bids worth Rs 4.8 billion and Rs 4.5 billion respectively. Therefore, MCB emerged the highest bidder"

Rs 4.5 billion wass the original bid of the consortium to whom UBL was sold later. They were clearly not expecting a high bid from MCB as Shortcut had already promised them the sale. Then the media kicked in and then GoP was forced to accept its "wrongdoings" and corruption.

"State Bank of Pakistan cleared all the three bidders but suggested to the Privatization Commission to ask the participants to improve their bids. MCB was prompt in raising its bid from Rs 8.5 billion to Rs 12 billion and the revised bid was accepted by the Commission"

Later, "Abu Dhabi Consortium sent a fax indicating its intention to match MCB's revised bid" - Clear indication that a massive 8 billion rupees corruption was going to take place (from the original bid) while the final bid is also highly debated. You can sort throuigh only archives and find dispassionate reviews on this.

Hence, the Privatization commenced by the Commando Govt was full of exposed corruption, shady deals and huge kickbacks. Don't claim that it somehow brought investment and these institutions were national burdens which somehow became profitable later on.

Well when you are selling an Industry that is consistently bankrupt and plagued by corruption, it becomes very hard to make demands, all we can do is just salute the highest bidder and hand over............not really the best position to make demands........

This is the only economic marker you know of. I am not educated in the fields of economics and finance but I can at least understand the basics.

I wrote a pretty large economic comparison on the last page, read that one.

Providing huge subsidies on electricity and gas keep inflation down artificially, the bubble bursts later. Our economy has gone down the drain not because Shaukat Tarin or Ishaq Dar didn't manage it properly or Zardari took a share out of it but because of years of mismanagement, artificially reduced inflation and the global economic crisis. Also, 2003-04 saw an unprecedented global economic boom. Times are different now.

Exactly my point, those guys were giving subsidies yet still they were earning and the country was running fine and dandy, but now, there isn't any subsidy on a single utility yet still the economy is suffering.......

MQM was brought into the federal and provincial governments, that's what he wanted to say. Is that a conspiracy theory? Don't counter this by saying that they are in the federal and provincial govt now as well. Times were different in 2002. They have entrenched themselves in the past 8 years thanks to the patronization received at the hands of the general.

He wasn't the first person, MQM has been winning clean house from Karachi and Hyderabad for as long as i can remember.

So Bandari and Jacobabad were just "adday" to move rations. I wonder why a C-130 and a Predator crashed from the bases in Jan and May 2002 respectively....

C-130 is a transport aircraft therefore it must be shifting supplies, as for the Predator, well thats one.........have you seen any others in the skies above us ? If they were launching the drones from here then we would have been bound to see atleast one, they do fly alot of sorties..............

Give credit to the enemy when he serves but don't defend pointlessly. It was to save his own skin. Brought the "corruption king and queen" as he used to say back to save his throne.

Like I said, it was misused by the present government but it's true motive was as stated in my previous post. The National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) was an ordinance issued by the former President of Pakistan, General Pervez Musharraf, on October 5, 2007. It granted amnesty to politicians, political workers and bureaucrats who were accused of, but not proven to be involved in corruption, embezzlement, money laundering, murder, and terrorism between January 1, 1986, and October 12, 1999.

Like I said old cases which could not be proven.

You have failed to answer the question raised about extrajudicial murder of Akbar Bugti and the case of "intelligence agencies" abducting people. A two bit intelligence officer has no right to keep people in custody without judicial remand. He is a servant of the state, not a state thug. Do not counter this by saying that Akbar Bugti was unpatriotic or was working hand in hand with RAW, that would be out of context and moving away from the debate.

As for Akbar Bugti, He was hiding in a cave, refusing to come out, three officers were sent in to negotiate with him and he killed all three.......In a battlezone you cannot call in the judges and have a case, it's do or die, the man could have killed more men if he wasn't put down........................as for the people being abducted well of course there must be some reason behind their abduction, thay must have done something wrong, i will take myself as an example, I haven't been abducted once..............that's cuz i do everything by the book.......

You don't seem to know those who enjoyed jails in the second NS govt and who fought for their rights. Commando sb opened the doors and I give credit to him for that but it was time anyways. The doors would have opened sooner or later. He gets only partial credit for this. The other half goes tot he journalists enjoyed prison sentences, baton charges and state torture.

It was not bound to happen sooner or later, the guys who enjoyed prison sentences had nothing to do with it........prior to Pervez Musharraf's rule there was only PTV, he issued the licences. I believe he gets full credit.

 

[Rank]

Musharaf Terrorist Destory Pakistan....

Killing and handover 1000ss of innocent civilianz

Nuthing invest in Agriculture and rest of other deptz

Our economy in musharaf was not Permanent its temporary growth.

Not even a single investment in Dams, Electricity.

Prices of Petrol and everything on top!!!

Lal Masjid, Bughti Murder, Judicry issue, Change Rule of Law

He is TERRORIST and remain TERRORIST!

 

[Hyde]

YouTube - raja pervaiz ashraf keh promises

hahahha funny video

 

[pak-marine]

696796]Lots of disinformation on the 'achievements' of the Musharraf regime in the above post. A while back, I had compiled a list of how Mr. Musharraf served Pakistan's interest first; for the interest of the members, I am reposting it.

Well he was not a fine example, but a finest example of an 'imposed' leader who 'forcefully' guided his nation to an ultimate doom. Would you like to highlight those Pakistani interests, which he served first? OK, let me help you here.

1. The Ex-PM Sharif and Ex-PM Vajpaee were negotiating for the peace in Lahore, and the renegade Musharraf was sending troops (without taking into confidence the Corp Commanders, the Services Chiefs of Air force and Navy, the PM, the Cabinet) and sabotaging those peace talks between India and Pakistan; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

2. When the PM dismissed him (with full constitutional and legal authority) from his post due to the disobedience and unprofessionalism he showed during Kargil, he reinstated himself unconstitutionally and illegally with the help of the other renegade Corp Commanders and threw the elected PM into the jail and even got him punished in the false accounts by the lower courts; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

3. He allowed the American troops in his country, and gave them airfields to carry out attacks on the neighboring Islamic country; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

4. He sold out undisclosed number of Pakistanis (innocent until proven guilty) to the Americans without first trying them in the Pakistani courts of law; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

5. He instructed his serving General of the political wing of ISI to rig the general elections and brought PML(Q) and so-called Islamic parties into power, and used this illegitimate parliament as a rubber stamp to further his ambitions; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

6. He, through the help of his illegitimate Parliament (result of rigging) and sold-out/oppressed Judges (result of LFO), adulterated the constitution and introduced clauses in order to achieve full amnesty for his unconstitutional actions and illegal rule; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

7. He mishandled the Lal Mosque issue, which resulted in the loss of life (both the civilians and the Army personnel) and resulted in a widespread anger against the regime, and the Army; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

8. He, through his banker PM, Shoukat Aziz sold out the profitable national assets on the rates far below their actual value and not to the highest bidders. Only Pakistan Steel managed to escape and that too because of the intervention of the honorable Chief Justice; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

9. Under his regime, the nation was deliberately and at institutional level misguided on the economical condition/progress. The government’s coffers were artificially inflated due to the money sent home by the overseas Pakistanis post 9/11 and which had nothing to do with the economical policies of his or his banker PM Shoukat Aziz. His banker PM introduced novel and totally misguiding scales of measuring the economical growth, that were, number of cars running on the roads and the cell phones sold; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

10. He dismissed the honorable Justices, put them and their family members under house arrests, and tried to destroy the judiciary; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

11. He patronized a known terrorist lingual organization in Karachi, hired the terrorist elements of this organization to hijack Karachi in order to stop the visit of the CJP and publicly supported their terrorizing actions that included a dozen deaths on May 11; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

12. He mishandled the Balochistan issue, gave a free hand to the Army and intelligence agencies to abduct anybody anywhere. None of the abductees ever presented into the courts of law or given a chance of legal defense. Sardar Akbar Bugti was extra-judicially murdered and his rival clan was ‘awarded’ the right to rule Sui and Dera Bugti; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

13. He introduced the black ordinance called NRO to cut a shameful deal with the exiled political leaders, pardoned them for all their corruption even murder charges in return of the extension of his presidency; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

14. He mischievously tried to bag the credit for freeing up the media which in reality was the result of the selfless struggle and sacrifices largely by the press and to some extent electronic media and lots of pressure from the free-media-obsessed Western countries; was that the Pakistani interest he served first?

[/QUOTE]

Well put "bottom line he was just another dictator who like his past generals brought pakistan and its society in a terible mess- period

 

[sparklingway]

Find yourself a copy of the 72 constitution, the Prime Minister advises the president regarding these matters but without the President's consent and signature, appointment cannot be carried out.
This clause is associated with the one that states that "The President of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will be the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces"

I have done my homework but you are clearly wrong here. Article 243(2-c) of the original 1973 Constitution:-

(c) to appoint the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee,] the Chief of the Army Staff, the Chief of the Naval Staff and the Chief of the Air Staff, and determine their salaries and allowances.

Legislative History:-

On March 2,1985 the PRESIDENT'S ORDER 14 of 1985(REVIVAL OF THE CONSTITUTION OF 1973 ORDER, 1985) was issued. Item 50(2) read:-

In clause (3), in paragraph (c), after the word "appoint", the words and commas "in his discretion the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee." shall be inserted.

Hence, it was now the President's own discretion.

Following is the clause of (4) of The Constitution (Thirteenth Amendment) Act, 1997

In the Constitution, in Article 243, in clause

(2) in sub-clause (c) the words "in his discretion" shall be omitted.

This brought the ball back to the park of the PM.

Then the Legal Framework Order, 2002 (Chief Executive's Order No. 24 of 2002) changed it to the following:-

"The President shall, in his discretion, appoint"

Which brought the ball back to the Aiwan e Sadr.

If the words "in his discretion" aren't used article 48(1) and (2) clearly say that the President will just by acting entirely on the advice of the PM and the cabinet. If the words "in his discretion" aren't used, then such powers are just signing powers and the President is supposed to obey everything like the figure head of state, which he is supposed to be.

Well when you are selling an Industry that is consistently bankrupt and plagued by corruption, it becomes very hard to make demands, all we can do is just salute the highest bidder and hand over............not really the best position to make demands........

Please, don't defend wrong things like you've done them yourselves. It does not hurt to accept that your messiah was wrong on a whole lot of matters, irrespective of his unconstitutional rule.

Consistently bankrupt? Did you even read? PSM gave a profit of Rs. 8 billion and PTCL a profit of Rs. 27 billion? Does that look like a burden to you? We're talking about profits not losses..

HBL and UBL were highly profitable. Only the most profitable institutions were sold out. Accept the mistakes and the corruption.

I wrote a pretty large economic comparison on the last page, read that one.

I'll come with a much detailed comparison for you later in the week. But for starters, there's a big thing called Purchasing Power Parity. Use that not just numbers. Economists use complex formulas to equate historical figures according to inflation and PPP to compare figures across years and boundaries. The kind of table you present, I'm bored of seeing. Clearly demonstrates lack of economic understanding. No personal offense but come with solid arguments to support your claims as well. As the guy above said, we were being transformed from an agro based economy to a consumer financing one. That never helps.

Like I said old cases which could not be proven.

He did to save his won skin not for wide ranging political reconciliation or saving the state the expense of prosecuting decade old cases. We know the spirit behind it and so do you.

He was hiding in a cave, refusing to come out, three officers were sent in to negotiate with him and he killed all three

There is no evidence to support your claim. Saying that it has never been revealed and some uncle/friend's father told it to you has no credibility. If this was what actually happened, then the state would have said it because it would demonstrate the callousness and the inhumane nature of Bugti. They never said it, nor did anybody else.

He wasn't the first person, MQM has been winning clean house from Karachi and Hyderabad for as long as i can remember.

This wasn't my point but they were winning but sidelined by the federation. They're a compulsory part of the federal government for the foreseeable future now thanks to Commando.

 

[SSGPA1]

Complete denial mode. I guess you have forgotten the summers without electricity in '07 and '08.

"The country may plunge into energy crisis by the year 2007 due to rising electricity demand which enters into double digit figure following increasing sale of electrical and electronic appliances on lease finance, it is reliably learnt Thursday" - Energy Bulletin, July 2, 2004

All data based from figures acquired from NEPRA (National Electric Power Regulatory Authority)'s website including Annual Reports and State of Industry Reports.

You are missing the point, power shortage was managed in a far better way therefore people never faced the 12-14 hrs of load shedding.

Yes the forecast was of a power shortage and actions were taken to counter these issues and I am sure if President Musharraf was running this govt, the situation may have been far better. Here are some of the actions:

1. Neelum-Jhelum hydroelectric project, first formally announced by former Minister Omar Ayub on June 10, 2007, is finally starting in earnest under the PPP government of Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani.

2. In response to the warnings of energy crisis in Pakistan, President Musharraf's government recognized the need and the potential for renewable alternatives and, in 2006, created Alternative Energy Development Board to pursue renewable energy. In particular, AEDB is focusing on wind and solar as viable alternatives. AEDB is facilitating setting up of small renewable energy projects in line with government’s policy of promoting the use of renewable energy in the country’s power generation mix, says the board’s chief executive officer Mr Arif Alauddin. AEDB has recently issued Makwind Power Private Ltd (MPPL) a Letter of Intent for the setting up of 50MW wind farm at Nooriabad in Sindh, as part of its efforts to facilitate 700 MW wind energy by 2010.

Go through these links and have PTI CP alsogo through this:

Renewable Energy to Tackle Pakistan's Electricity Crisis - PakAlumni Worldwide: The Global Social Network

Always, always check your facts. Beloved commando never "started" the Ghazi Barotha project. Coming up with the half truths is worse than coming up with none.


ADB report "construction commencing in early 1996"

Land acquisition, Construction and Civil Works, Electrical and Mechanical Works and everything else started way before the general came in. It was completed when he was sitting on the throne. He deserves no credit for it.

Read "E. Project Schedule" on page 16 of the report for the reasons in the 3 year delays in the GB project.
Ghazi Barotha Hydropower Project - Asian Development Bank

haha ... are you trying to pull a fast one here?

All you are quoting is a project plan and not actual work dates.

First read through page 17 onwards to understand the delay. Second understand one thing that this project was as good as dead because ADB withdrew its TA grants and financial situation was not clear till 1999 despite the loan approval in 1996.

THis project was started and put into speed by Gen. Musharraf's govt. Read about all the Amendments done in order to increase the people working on this project. This report is just short of saying that Nawaz Sharif's govt was highly incompotent and thanks to Gen Musharraf's govt. for working on this project. Again read the report and go through the link before responding.

RPPs are a debatable issue and kickbacks in those deals aren't out of question but Raja Pervaiz Ashraf did not create this crisis nor is he responsible for it. You can complain that their response hasn't been as praiseworthy as it should have been but you cannot blame it on him. Do you even remember the name of the previous Federal Minister for Water and Power? Nobody does because he freaking didn't do anything.

haha .. no one remembers the former minister's name because he never told people that power crisis will end in Dec 2009. Again, see the link below to understand the action taken by the Musharraf govt.

Renewable Energy to Tackle Pakistan's Electricity Crisis - PakAlumni Worldwide: The Global Social Network

Raja Pervaiz Ashraf is responsible because he is the one who has been continuously lying to Pakistan. Probably the plan was to push people to the limits and then tell them that RPP are the last option. However, freedom of media (thanks to Gen Musharraf again), Mr. Tareen and ADB didn't let this happen. Wait till CJP gets involved and then Mer. Ashraf will be in ddep trouble.

General Sb's biggest slogan "Ehtesab" was the biggest farce of all. However depotic the 2nd govt of NS was and however politically motivated the Ehtesab Commission was, you have to give them due credit for their work if they did it. NAB has been a complete failure, plea bargains to avoid long court cases thus guilty people going back to US to live for free. Ethesab Commission for the first and only time in our history uncovered "foreign" and "Swiss" accounts. Money trails were uncovered in detail for the first and only time. Senator Saif ur Rehman was an evil guy and all his actions were mere political vengeance but his output was visible. NAB relied only on the earlier evidences to accuse BB/AZ. Evidences of corruption against NS were weak because BB's govt's never managed to do the kind of uncovering the Ehtesab Commission did.

Slogan : "Ehtesab"
Result : Complete failure. Nobody prosecuted. No new evidences. Plea bargains. Ultimately deals with "corruption queen and king" to save own skin.

The same "corruption queen and king" were called back to Pakistan by IK, JI nad other political rulers. The result is so because NS and BB made many false cases against each other and except for few cases, most of the cases will be thrown out.

A plea bargain is better where you have little to no evidence so lets not blame Gen. Musharraf for not at least trying.

 

[sparklingway]

I will respond point by point later but as for AEDB, I have worked on 3 different projects with them

 

[Icarus]

I have done my homework but you are clearly wrong here. Article 243(2-c) of the original 1973 Constitution:-

(c) to appoint the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee,] the Chief of the Army Staff, the Chief of the Naval Staff and the Chief of the Air Staff, and determine their salaries and allowances.

Legislative History:-

On March 2,1985 the PRESIDENT'S ORDER 14 of 1985(REVIVAL OF THE CONSTITUTION OF 1973 ORDER, 1985) was issued. Item 50(2) read:-

In clause (3), in paragraph (c), after the word "appoint", the words and commas "in his discretion the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee." shall be inserted.

Hence, it was now the President's own discretion.

Following is the clause of (4) of The Constitution (Thirteenth Amendment) Act, 1997

In the Constitution, in Article 243, in clause

(2) in sub-clause (c) the words "in his discretion" shall be omitted.

This brought the ball back to the park of the PM.

Then the Legal Framework Order, 2002 (Chief Executive's Order No. 24 of 2002) changed it to the following:-

"The President shall, in his discretion, appoint"

Which brought the ball back to the Aiwan e Sadr.

If the words "in his discretion" aren't used article 48(1) and (2) clearly say that the President will just by acting entirely on the advice of the PM and the cabinet. If the words "in his discretion" aren't used, then such powers are just signing powers and the President is supposed to obey everything like the figure head of state, which he is supposed to be.



Please, don't defend wrong things like you've done them yourselves. It does not hurt to accept that your messiah was wrong on a whole lot of matters, irrespective of his unconstitutional rule.

The Chief justice is PM's responsibility but the CoAS is the President's as the President is the supreme commander.........then again, honestly there have been so many changes have been made to the constitution, you can't tell what's what.

Consistently bankrupt? Did you even read? PSM gave a profit of Rs. 8 billion and PTCL a profit of Rs. 27 billion? Does that look like a burden to you? We're talking about profits not losses..

Source please ?

HBL and UBL were highly profitable. Only the most profitable institutions were sold out. Accept the mistakes and the corruption.

UBL has actually become more profitable since it was privatized, as for HBL also continues to dominate the Banking sector, so no harm done there. They were nationalized in the first place by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto as a part of his socialist policies but since Pakistan is not a Communist country, it makes no sense following communist ideology.

I'll come with a much detailed comparison for you later in the week. But for starters, there's a big thing called Purchasing Power Parity. Use that not just numbers. Economists use complex formulas to equate historical figures according to inflation and PPP to compare figures across years and boundaries. The kind of table you present, I'm bored of seeing. Clearly demonstrates lack of economic understanding. No personal offense but come with solid arguments to support your claims as well. As the guy above said, we were being transformed from an agro based economy to a consumer financing one. That never helps.

You mean this:
GDP Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) in 1999: $ 270 billion
GDP Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) in 2007: $ 475.5 billion
GDP Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) in 2008: $ 504.3 billion

He did to save his won skin not for wide ranging political reconciliation or saving the state the expense of prosecuting decade old cases. We know the spirit behind it and so do you.

What I wrote is what I believe and neither of us can prove the other wrong on that...............

There is no evidence to support your claim. Saying that it has never been revealed and some uncle/friend's father told it to you has no credibility. If this was what actually happened, then the state would have said it because it would demonstrate the callousness and the inhumane nature of Bugti. They never said it, nor did anybody else.

His attack on the soldiers who were sent to negotiate(3 officers and 2 Jawans) is confirmed as for the facts behind his death, they kind of vary.
Akbar Bugti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This wasn't my point but they were winning but sidelined by the federation. They're a compulsory part of the federal government for the foreseeable future now thanks to Commando.

It was this very sidelining that was making the "Muhajir" community feel as if they were not Pakistan, thus leading to the Jinnahpur and Urdudesh controversies............at least now, their insecurities have been dealt with...............