Musharraf blames captured troops - 3 Excecuted, 30 released

[dabong1]

Musharraf blames captured troops
By Owen Bennett Jones
BBC News, Rawalpindi



The army faces well-armed, well-trained militants in Waziristan
Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf has blamed a group of more than 200 soldiers for their capture by pro-Taleban militants.

"I think they acted unprofessionally in that they were trying to clear a road block without taking any precautionary measures," he told the BBC.

The fact the president criticised the soldiers despite their still being in captivity is a sign of his frustration.

He knows that many Pakistanis do not agree with army actions in Waziristan.

Gen Musharraf, who is still chief of army staff, is also aware that others are shocked that the militants have been able to win control of parts of the tribal area on the border.

'Position of strength'

The president was speaking in an exclusive BBC interview at his office near the army's general headquarters in Rawalpindi.


I wouldn't say that I am fully satisfied with the operation.


He said the troops, kidnapped in August in South Waziristan near the Afghan border, should have made sure "they occupied the heights and dominated the position" before they did anything else.

The soldiers were captured without firing a shot. The militants have told the BBC that the authorities have shown "minimal interest" in getting the soldiers released.

But Gen Musharraf said the authorities were using a combination of negotiation and force: "We have to deal from a position of strength. I think we will come to a solution."

Over the last four years about 1,000 Pakistani security personnel have been killed fighting militants in or near Waziristan.

Gen Musharraf has been under strong US pressure to fight harder in Waziristan.

But the use of air power has resulted in civilian deaths which turned some Wazir civilians against the Pakistani forces.

"I wouldn't say that I am fully satisfied with the operation," Gen Musharraf said. "I am not. I am not satisfied. It is working partially [but] we need to do better."



BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Musharraf blames captured troops

 

[dabong1]

Militants boast of executions
By Syed Shoaib Hasan
BBC News, South Waziristan




Zulfiqar Mehsud is a leading pro-Taleban militant in Pakistan's tribal area of South Waziristan.


Zulfiqar means 'double-edged sword' and the menace that this man in his late 20s generates is evident, despite his pleasant demeanour with us.

His men have been holding more than 200 soldiers as prisoners since late August, something of a humiliation for the army.

He tells us that the authorities "have shown minimal interest" in getting the soldiers freed.

"We will not release them till the government releases 30 of our comrades being held in jail," Zulfiqar says.

"They should also pull out all troops from our territory."

For most of Pakistan's history, the tribal people along the Afghan border were left to rule themselves. That all changed when President Musharraf ordered troops in after 11 September, 2001, to flush out al-Qaeda and Taleban militants.

The militants control so much of the territory here. We wanted to meet them and also the captured soldiers.

They gave us a tour of a captured communications post.
Soon it was too late to do anything


Zulfiqar tells us 50 men were captured by the militants in the operation, along with weapons and the communications equipment.

"It is in our safekeeping for the Pakistan army," he says, grinning cheekily.

Then we were shown a captured vehicle that was flying an Afghan flag before being taken back to meet some of the soldiers.

'Incorrect'


Major Atiq Azam and Lieutenant Farrukh Mansoor appeared well physically but their eyes betrayed their fear.


Major Azam, being the senior officer, did most of the talking.

"It is incorrect to say we surrendered," he said.

"The convoy was on its way from Shakai to Ladha when we had to stop because a stretch of the road was broken."

Shakai and Ladha are towns in Waziristan with army encampments and the convoy was to supply rations to these camps, Major Azam explains.


When the head is removed from the body the soul is immediately released
Faisal, militant

He says the convoy was in four groups. The main group was carrying the rations, while the others were for protection.



"When we stopped at the fissure in the road, the local Taleban initially appeared and helped us clear it," Major Azam said. But as their numbers increased, he says, so did their aggression.

"They asked why were we travelling in the area despite an agreement [between the militants and the army] made a couple of days ago."

Major Azam says he was originally informed that the deal with militants allowed troops to move through the Mehsud tribal area as long as they stayed in their vehicles.




But that did not appear to be the deal, as the Taleban saw it.

Major Azam says the attitude of the militants was hardening while he kept calling his commanding officer for instructions.

"I was told to wait, but soon it was too late to do anything."

Soon after, the militants had the soldiers surrounded then declared them to be prisoners.
"We were broken up into smaller groups and then taken away," he concludes.


The commanding officer, Lt. Colonel Zafar, confirmed the chain of events but said little more.

"We were told to wait for the outcome of negotiations by the high command with the militant leadership."

From what we could learn, it did indeed seem that Colonel Zafar's men had not been given accurate details of the agreement made with the militants.

That led to their venturing forth into forbidden territory and then subsequent communication failures led to their capture.

There is a feeling among many in the military that its high command has been too focused on the political situation in the country rather than trying to get the soldiers freed.

Major Azam and his colleagues are unsure what will become of them.
The militants beheaded one soldier in August.


Three were shot dead last week. The soldiers we spoke to were unaware of the shootings.

One militant, Faisal, said "cutting off the head is the best and most humane way to kill".

"When the head is removed from the body the soul is immediately released. Whereas when you hang a person, the soul has to struggle to escape from the mouth.

"If we want to punish someone, we cut his head from the back of the neck, instead of the throat," says Faisal.

"That is very painful and its takes a long time to die."

One of the group, we are told, has decapitated 53 men.


BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Militants boast of executions

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Musharraf blames captured troops
By Owen Bennett Jones
BBC News, Rawalpindi

He has a point.

Why did they not take effective action to ensure they could defend themselves in a hostile area?

It is important that the Army recognizes its mistakes, rather than place blame elsewhere - that will be the only way to ensure such events do not happen again.

In a routine traffic stop in the US, the officer approaches the vehicle with his hand on his holster - and this is war!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Musharraf blames captured troops
By Owen Bennett Jones
BBC News, Rawalpindi

There is a a bit of speculation and bias woven into this report to show the army at fault.

Major Azam says he was originally informed that the deal with militants allowed troops to move through the Mehsud tribal area as long as they stayed in their vehicles....

But that did not appear to be the deal, as the Taleban saw it....

From what we could learn, it did indeed seem that Colonel Zafar's men had not been given accurate details of the agreement made with the militants....

What exactly does "from what we could learn mean"? What are the "details"? Did this "journalist" bother to ask the GoP to get an "objective" viewpoint, or are we to consider terrorists as "reliable" sources of information now?

I remember listening to Senator Saleh Shah, who led the Jirga to meet Baitullah, in the immediate aftermath of the abduction, and he very clearly stated that Baitullah had taken this action becasue he thought that the troops were on an "offensive mission". He accepted that supply convoys were fine, but the militants did not believe that this was one.

There is a feeling among many in the military that its high command has been too focused on the political situation in the country rather than trying to get the soldiers freed.

This statement is absolute rubbish and BS speculation - no sources, no rationale. The COAS does not run or manage every single operation undertaken by the army. What is the point of having Corp commanders?

The only thing the "high command" will do is set "overall policy" and that has been pretty clear so far with respect to the negotiations with Baitullah - that the thirty terrorists, some of whom have been convicted already (including Abdullah Mehsud's brother or cousin), will not be released. That is what the policy should be.

Some of these people were arrested with explosives and suicide jackets. to release them would make the GoP responsible for whoever they murder.

 

[HAIDER]

Allll right if GOP is not serious about negotiation, bad for tribe. Kill all of PA soldiers then get ready to pay the price. Another aerial operation name "no mercy".

 

[antiobl]

He has a point.

Why did they not take effective action to ensure they could defend themselves in a hostile area?

It is important that the Army recognizes its mistakes, rather than place blame elsewhere - that will be the only way to ensure such events do not happen again.

In a routine traffic stop in the US, the officer approaches the vehicle with his hand on his holster - and this is war!

Good points!

Pakistani army is just an extension of Pakistani society. We as Pakistanis do not take our life or our profession too seriously.

That's why comparison with an American cop is not valid here.

I remember talking to a colonel sahib right after Musharraf's convoy nearly missed bomb explosion under a bridge in Rawalpindi. This col. sahib was all "sub Acha hai" (everything is alright). Guess what? Few days later Musharraf's convoy was again hit, this time with twin suicide bombers.

Had we as a nation, become alert, taken some precaution, been on the lookout, the second attack would have been very difficult so soon after the first one.

We on the other hand are slumbering, bumbling nation with no particular vision about our country.

I fear that we have become very much like the Abbasi Khalifas of Baghdad. Back then, the whole of Iraq was involved in religious and political "Munazaras" (useless debates). All the while, Mongol hoards were ready to mount an attack.

The same thing is true these days. Tribal hoards are mounting attacks on us, on our soil, and we are all involved in useless debates on 100 different TV channels.

Soon those uncouth tribals will turn our cities like Islamabad into the Islamic jannat called Kabul or Kandhar. Our mansions will be turned into bearded camp grounds, and people will walk around with lotas in their hands, doing "Istanja" whenever and wherever the call of nature showed up.

Only then some of us will realize that we saw the ominous signs, and we didn't pay attention.

Off course it will be too late by then. Look at an Afghani middle class professional who is now refugee in some part of the world. You will know the price of being ignorant about your country. The price of such ignorance is simple! Repeated invasions by different armies, while the locals destroy their own cities, and burn down their own homes. What a stupidity!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

There is nothing wrong with the news. Gen Musharraf in his interview today with bbc was mad like hell on the commanding officer the LT Col for not securing the high ground when they had stopped at the intersection and not forming a secure parameter. Put his arms up and dropped his weapons like a cow.

I am telling you---pakistani commanding officers are acting like highly incompetent people----suddenly they have forgotten their basic training----first time when the 26 soldiers were captured a couple of months ago----those fools were travelling without any weapons because the super genius Lt Col thought so that it would be ok. Then another group got captured and again they didnot form an offensive parameter.

You guys will be furious at me--but I am telling you that pakistani officers are showing the capacity of little children at time of combat.

There is an old standard in the millitary-----nobody--no group of people enters the kill zone. In the combat area----during any stoppage of the troop movement----first of all, all surrounding heights are secured----no civilians are allowed to approach the inner circle---any civilian allowed is sanitized first----ie---looked up for suicide bomber---any weapons put down. It is totally humiliating.

What kills the pakistanis is when they start thinking in the battle zone-------oh it is ok this is our muslim brother----.

Anyway, going to another very important subject

Today U S Gen Ricardo Sanchez interviewed on tv and blasted the civilian admin about their incompetence on how they managed the war.

Just want to tell you that I was talking about it in the last couple of days and that thread has suddenly disappeared-----Antibol had started it---regarding attacking Kandahar----

By STEVEN KOMAROW, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 31 minutes ago



ARLINGTON, Va. - The U.S. mission in Iraq is a "nightmare with no end in sight" because of political misjudgments after the fall of Saddam Hussein that continue today, a former chief of U.S.-led forces said Friday.

Retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who commanded coalition troops for a year beginning June 2003, cast a wide net of blame for both political and military shortcomings in Iraq that helped open the way for the insurgency — such as disbanding the Saddam-era military and failing to cement ties with tribal leaders and quickly establish civilian government after Saddam was toppled.

He called current strategies — including the deployment of 30,000 additional forces earlier this year — a "desperate attempt" to make up for years of misguided policies in Iraq.

"There is no question that America is living a nightmare with no end in sight," Sanchez told a group of journalists covering military affairs.

Sanchez avoided singling out at any specific official. But he did criticize the State Department, the National Security Council, Congress and the senior military leadership during what appeared to be a broad indictment of White House policies and a lack of leadership to oppose them.

Such assessments — even by former Pentagon brass — are not new, but they have added resonance as debates over war strategy dominate the presidential campaign.

The Bush administration didn't directly address Sanchez's critical views.

"We appreciate his service to the country," said White House spokesman Trey Bohn. He added that as U.S. commander in Iraq Gen. David Petraeus and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker have said: "There is more work to be done, but progress is being made in Iraq and that's what we're focused on now."

Sanchez retired from the Army last year, two years after he completing a tumultuous year as commander of all U.S. forces in Iraq. As he stepped down, he called his career a casualty of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal.

He was never charged with anything but he was not promoted in the aftermath of the prisoner abuse reports. He was criticized by some for not doing more to avoid mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners.

Sanchez told the gathering that he thought he had made mistakes and said he didn't always fully appreciate the secondary affects of actions the military took.

He did deny reports that he and then-Iraqi administrator L. Paul Bremer were not on speaking terms. He said they spoke every day.

The retired soldier stressed that it became clear during his command that the mission was severely handicapped because the State Department and other agencies were not adequately contributing to a mission that could not be won by military force alone.

When asked when he saw that the mission was going awry, he responded: "About the 15th of June 2003" — the day he took command.

"There is nothing going on today in Washington that would give us hope" that things are going to change, he said.

Sanchez went on to offer a pessimistic view on the current U.S. strategy against extremists will make lasting gains, but said a full-scale withdrawal also was not an option.

"The American military finds itself in an intractable situation ... America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq," said Sanchez, who works as a consultant training U.S. generals.

 

[MastanKhan]

Agnostic Muslim,

You are right about the traffic stop by a traffic cop----he believes in training and doing the job right the first time, every time.

But you see americans don't have to face ---yeh hamaray islami bhai hain.

Right after the first Tora Bora skirmish, about 35 to 37 foreigners were captured----the frontier constabulary wanted to secure them---but the superintendent police or commissioner level official stated these are our muslim brother---we trust them----they got in the bus---within minutes they had over powered their guards killed them and escaped.

Another incidence in waziristan---these foreigners are holed up---the major wants to go in and talk to his muslim brothers----some non-comms try to stop him not to go inside but he does and take a few soldiers with him----they are slaughtered. Even Musharraf made a comment about this incident in one of his speeches.

The problem here is that of a certain mindset- Pakistani millitary needs to be indoctrinated frequently about this change and how to handle it----junior officers must be made to take charge.

 

[fatman17]

remember we r talking about people here who were not trained to fight muslims - only our neighbour on our eastern border. the environment is changing and the PA needs to change its training (insurgency) and indoctrination (india). take it from someone who has been there.
in this case the CO of the convoy is to blame clearly. in the army order comes from top down. u dont move a muscle until u r told to do so.

 

[Cheetah786]

remember we r talking about people here who were not trained to fight muslims - only our neighbour on our eastern border. the environment is changing and the PA needs to change its training (insurgency) and indoctrination (india). take it from someone who has been there.
in this case the CO of the convoy is to blame clearly. in the army order comes from top down. u dont move a muscle until u r told to do so.

correct me if iam wrong here aren't they trained to fight and defend Pakistan and her interests.

i as a civilian would no pretty clearly to secure hill tops in that situation before doing an thing else other wise iam dead as a door nail on top surrender without shooting a bullet.

i thing government approach is right and blame belongs to those who did this to embarrass the government.

I am glade to see government didn't fell for there stunt and when the are released they should all be immediately fired after court Marshall.

These people have no Honor most of the so called jirgas words are Worth less then used toilet paper.there shouldn't be any negotiations this time for any release.

This mistake was made before by the government of releasing these thugs and giving back there arms to them.i don't think they should release any thug this time.only option given to these so p.i.g.s is kill your self or we will do it for you.

And what i don't understand is why isn't the media coming out in support of mushy.if this was India anti government personals would have been declared ISI trained people and all support would have fallen behind government troops.

 

[F.O.X]

OH MY GOD!

these Journalists, Musharaf in his interview acctually blaimed BBC for their false & propogenda reporting & said that it is very irresponsible from such a professional news agencie, it looks like BBC have back fire & Turned Musharaf blamed BBC into Musharaf blamed Troops.


Regards
Wilco

 

[Cheetah786]

Militants boast of executions
By Syed Shoaib Hasan
BBC News, South Waziristan




Zulfiqar Mehsud is a leading pro-Taleban militant in Pakistan's tribal area of South Waziristan.


Zulfiqar means 'double-edged sword' and the menace that this man in his late 20s generates is evident, despite his pleasant demeanour with us.

His men have been holding more than 200 soldiers as prisoners since late August, something of a humiliation for the army.

He tells us that the authorities "have shown minimal interest" in getting the soldiers freed.

"We will not release them till the government releases 30 of our comrades being held in jail," Zulfiqar says.

"They should also pull out all troops from our territory."

For most of Pakistan's history, the tribal people along the Afghan border were left to rule themselves. That all changed when President Musharraf ordered troops in after 11 September, 2001, to flush out al-Qaeda and Taleban militants.

The militants control so much of the territory here. We wanted to meet them and also the captured soldiers.

They gave us a tour of a captured communications post.
Soon it was too late to do anything


Zulfiqar tells us 50 men were captured by the militants in the operation, along with weapons and the communications equipment.

"It is in our safekeeping for the Pakistan army," he says, grinning cheekily.

Then we were shown a captured vehicle that was flying an Afghan flag before being taken back to meet some of the soldiers.

'Incorrect'


Major Atiq Azam and Lieutenant Farrukh Mansoor appeared well physically but their eyes betrayed their fear.


Major Azam, being the senior officer, did most of the talking.

"It is incorrect to say we surrendered," he said.

"The convoy was on its way from Shakai to Ladha when we had to stop because a stretch of the road was broken."

Shakai and Ladha are towns in Waziristan with army encampments and the convoy was to supply rations to these camps, Major Azam explains.


When the head is removed from the body the soul is immediately released
Faisal, militant

He says the convoy was in four groups. The main group was carrying the rations, while the others were for protection.



"When we stopped at the fissure in the road, the local Taleban initially appeared and helped us clear it," Major Azam said. But as their numbers increased, he says, so did their aggression.

"They asked why were we travelling in the area despite an agreement [between the militants and the army] made a couple of days ago."

Major Azam says he was originally informed that the deal with militants allowed troops to move through the Mehsud tribal area as long as they stayed in their vehicles.




But that did not appear to be the deal, as the Taleban saw it.

Major Azam says the attitude of the militants was hardening while he kept calling his commanding officer for instructions.

"I was told to wait, but soon it was too late to do anything."

Soon after, the militants had the soldiers surrounded then declared them to be prisoners.
"We were broken up into smaller groups and then taken away," he concludes.


The commanding officer, Lt. Colonel Zafar, confirmed the chain of events but said little more.

"We were told to wait for the outcome of negotiations by the high command with the militant leadership."

From what we could learn, it did indeed seem that Colonel Zafar's men had not been given accurate details of the agreement made with the militants.

That led to their venturing forth into forbidden territory and then subsequent communication failures led to their capture.

There is a feeling among many in the military that its high command has been too focused on the political situation in the country rather than trying to get the soldiers freed.

Major Azam and his colleagues are unsure what will become of them.
The militants beheaded one soldier in August.


Three were shot dead last week. The soldiers we spoke to were unaware of the shootings.

One militant, Faisal, said "cutting off the head is the best and most humane way to kill".

"When the head is removed from the body the soul is immediately released. Whereas when you hang a person, the soul has to struggle to escape from the mouth.

"If we want to punish someone, we cut his head from the back of the neck, instead of the throat," says Faisal.

"That is very painful and its takes a long time to die."

One of the group, we are told, has decapitated 53 men.


BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Militants boast of executions

Did Biased news agency BBC forget to report that Most of those captured paramilitary personals are also from Mehsud Tribe.


"

If we want to punish someone, we cut his head from the back of the neck, instead of the throat," says Faisal.

"That is very painful and its takes a long time to die."

Ha ha ha and these creatures call them self Mulsims they are not even Humans.

 

[Munir]

It only shows that these people are terrorists and should be eliminated in the most harsh way.

 

[Spring Onion]

OH MY GOD!

these Journalists, Musharaf in his interview acctually blaimed BBC for their false & propogenda reporting & said that it is very irresponsible from such a professional news agencie, it looks like BBC have back fire & Turned Musharaf blamed BBC into Musharaf blamed Troops.


Regards
Wilco

Wilco who believes Bhin Bhin CEEE

BBC can only Bug arround by churnning words.

Let me free i will post afeter sometime argumentatively as im at office.

 

[F.O.X]

It only shows that these people are terrorists and should be eliminated in the most harsh way.

Agreed!

you should treat a person as he is, not as you want him to be.


Regards
Wilco