What's new

Muridke The Real IAF Target?

Biggest weakness is western border. Forget about overt war with India...The war you guys are planning is already happening, the ball started rolling as soon as national security became compromised due to WoT, then Indian-US sponsored domestic insurgency, and now predator strikes (which is only laying the groundwork for bigger violations).

The entire Pakistan military should be mobilized to deal with the unstable situation in the north with these RAW sponsored taliban otherwise let's not speak about winning conventional wars or how best to deal with SU30 when we are having a hard time dealing with RPG7 and AK47... Each day that passes by without full control of our country and border only emboldens India. You can't beat and fight someone coming from the outside when someone is already inside you and beating you 50% of the time...


DEAR Kharian_Beast; sir
realy good input, but the strikes would be assisted by USAF, its a reality even our guys didnt wanted to execpt it but, it can only be happen from the assistance by USAF through thier sattalite links.:angry::agree:
 
Its hypothetical.. what u need to do wipe out terrorism from ur soil from FATA, Balouchistan, and ***. Right now there are not any terrorist group funded/trained by Indian Gov but might be we can see them in near future if Pakistan will not curb the terrorist..

I know its hypothetical, thats why I said lets assume.

You still havn't answered my question, but I will do it for you.

Would India sit there and drink tea, no absolutly not. Any strik on Indian occupied Kashmire by PAF would be retaliated. So same goes for the Pakistani controlled Kashmire, any strike by IAF in that region will not be tollerated by the Pakistani Government. Even though the current govt. is a puppet of the US, a strike by the Indian forces will not let be past.
 
PAF pilots i.e. the people in business have lots of respect for SU-30 and they never undermine its capabilities. They realize its threat value and are very well aware of its awesome potential. Right now in subcontinent, no doubt that there is no other fighter that is more capable than SU-30…

But remember that no manmade war machine is ever absolute invincible, everything has its weaknesses and limitations and those are the ones that opponents exploit…In 1999, a USAF F-117 that was supposed to be a stealth fighter was shot down over Yugoslavia by an obsolete surface-air missile…It took not only the USAF but whole world by surprise and hence proves the point once again that whatever goes up can be brought down too…

Since IAF acquired SU-30, PAF has been continually evolving tactics to beat it while exploiting its areas that will saturate SU-30s capabilities….What are the tactics? Definitely they can’t be discussed here….Is PAF successful in her approach and plan of action? Well, can’t tell now…it can only be answered if they ever come face to face in a real situation….

I have a couple of points. While India and Pakistan are both in a tough spot, no Pakistani government can function if people are launching attacks in the neighborhood. We simply owe it to ourselves to maintain responsibility toward other nations including India. As much as I appreciate our stance on Kashmir, I think Pakistani state must not allow people to perpetrate crimes such as those committed in Mumbai. If anything, these folks have hurt Pakistan and Pakistan's cause for Kashmir. The only silver lining that I see is that hopefully both of these countries will come to a point in the near future to say, lets get over this hump of Kashmir. Lets talk. But again I am not holding my breath.

On the issue of the aircraft etc...I think as X-man has rightly said, no one in PAF in their right minds would underestimate the potential of the IAF. We start off at a disadvantage and folks in the PAF and even in the PA know this, so to brush the threat aside is being ignorant and setting oneself up for a massive let down.
However the calculus for "tit for tat" air strikes is different. While countering the MKI etc. is one aspect of the challenge that faces the PAF, a response to an Indian air strike is a whole another thing. The air defence on both sides could be tighter but it is not currently. With OTH coverage in the future, I think the air defence and the utilization of assets in the air would be much more optimized. However currently on the aspect of strike, I think both sides have the ability to ingress into each other's space, press on the strike and return with potentially few losses. So in my own opinion, if IAF undertake strikes in AK etc., PAF's response would be immediate (beyond the air defence to stop the Indian ingress). We would see immediate strikes by PAF assets on Indian targets and then the spiral starts which is well expounded upon in the article posted by Neo here:Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

I hope and pray that this does not happen. Both countries have shown that they cannot back down without face saving and with air strikes and a response, the stakes would just keep on becoming higher and higher.
 
I have noticed on thing, Indian are always ready to attack Pakistan so Pakistan should change its policy from defensiveto offensive. These Indian kids are so funny on this forum that i am rolling myself on the floor by laughing. Pakistan has not sponsored any attack on india so take it easy. Second Pakistan is not afganistan if you indians think that its so easy to do whatever you guys are cooking in your head, then why dont you do it. I say one thing Pakistan have balls to do whatever she wishes so enough with the tough talk and lets do it and see who is who. TO ALL INDIANS WHO ARE IN THE FAVOR OF THESE ATTACKS ON PAKISTAN SHOULD PUSH INDIAN GOVERMENT TO ATTACK PAKISTAN. WE PAKISTANI WILL SHOW YOU GUYS WHAT WE ARE MADE OFF TRUST US. Now cut the tough talk crap and push your goverment to attack Pakistan and if there is any weigh in your talks the Pakistan should be the part in india in next years. "which i think will be opposite" We Pakistanis have been seing india funding terrorists in Pakistan in current time but we are not little bitches to cry off of it. We are playing it back now so save yor breath and Attack Pakistan. WE PAKISTANIS ARE WAITING FOR THIS MOMENT thanks a lot
 
Attacking Indian targets by missiles will invite Indian army in Afghanistan and that will make things complicated which I'm sure Pakistan will not relish. They are already very troubled by presence of Indian consulates.

Because Indian jets bombing Pakistan (and getting shot down) will not make things 'complicated'? :crazy:
 
Ready for crushing reply to any aggression: Pak Air Force
Updated at: 1500 PST, Wednesday, December 10, 2008
Ready for crushing reply to any aggression: Pak Air Force ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Air Force (PAF) spokesman has said that Pakistan was ready to give a crushing reply to any aggression.

Talking to Geo News, PAF spokesman told that Pakistan Air Force has all the capability of defending the country and if any aggression from any quarter takes place, then a crushing reply would be given. Reacting to the news of Indian Air Force put on high alert, he said that PAF remained focused on the Indian situation and Pakistan was all the time ready for the security and safety of its airspace.
:pakistan::tup:
 
I guss, USA is putting fuel on the fire, which is basicly in its intersts why?
because USA is in immediete need of troops in afghanistan, from any where! NATO has not sending more troops , UK also not giving right answer, FRANCE is not commiting troops in the comming year, ITALY already wanted to take out its troops!

INDIA has become the perfect power to put its troops in afghanistan on the name of recent terrorists attacks, with the support of USA, UK, NATO !
on this background, i guss INDIA is well placed to strike some soft targets inside or very close , locations of pakistan.
at pakistan's position, only CHINA is commited to support , but let me clear one thing, whatever is being cooking in the kitchen , it smells bad, & it is going to bring bad stomch to every one, not just pakistan!:agree::angry:
 
Continue Pressing Al-Qaeda, Bush Urges


By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 10, 2008; Page A02

President Bush yesterday urged President-elect Barack Obama to "stay on the offensive" against al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups and said his own administration had "laid a solid foundation" for meeting emerging threats around the world.

Addressing cadets at the U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., Bush vigorously defended his performance as commander in chief, arguing that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and other operations were part of a concerted strategy to "keep unrelenting pressure" on terrorist groups and rogue states after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

In his last scheduled address to a military academy, Bush also asserted that the nation's military is "stronger, more agile and better prepared" than when he took office eight years ago.

"With all the actions we've taken these past eight years, we've laid a solid foundation on which future presidents and future military leaders can build," Bush said. ". . . In the years ahead, our nation must continue developing the capabilities to take the fight to our enemies across the world. We must stay on the offensive. We must be determined, and we must be relentless to do our duty to protect the American people."

The appearance was the latest in a series of valedictory interviews and speeches in which Bush has forcefully defended a presidency marked by war and political conflict. The remarks come six weeks before Bush is scheduled to hand over the White House to Obama, who has vowed to chart a dramatically different path than Bush on the use of military force and diplomacy overseas.

Yet Obama has chosen Bush's current Pentagon chief, Robert M. Gates, to continue as defense secretary, while promising a shift in military resources from Iraq to Afghanistan and a greater emphasis on nonmilitary strategies in the fight against terrorism. An Obama transition official declined to comment on Bush's speech.

The address echoed a speech Bush delivered at West Point in June 2002, when he hearkened back to the attack on Pearl Harbor to unveil a more aggressive, preemptive approach to the use of military force. "We must take the battle to the enemy," he said during that speech, which came about 10 months before the declaration of war on Iraq.

Bush acknowledged yesterday that the Iraq conflict has been "longer and more difficult than expected" but said that his decision to increase troop levels in early 2007 "set a framework for the drawdown of American forces as the fight in Iraq nears a successful end."

Bush, who has recently expressed regret over the false intelligence that led to the Iraq war, did not mention the issue yesterday. Instead, he characterized the U.S.-led invasion as a necessary act to remove a dangerous dictator, Saddam Hussein. "America could not afford to allow a regime with such a threatening and violent record to remain in the heart of the Middle East," Bush said.

Bush also acknowledged that "al-Qaeda's top two leaders remain at large," referring to Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri. But he asserted that his administration had "severely weakened" the organization and had forced bin Laden and Zawahiri into hiding.

"The day will come when they receive the justice they deserve," Bush said.

Bush said that one of the biggest challenges of coming years will be "helping our partners assert control over ungoverned spaces," including the northwest border region of Pakistan that offers haven to al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups. U.S. and Pakistani officials have clashed in recent months over U.S. airstrikes aimed at militants along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, but Bush signaled that such strikes would continue.

"We have made it clear to Pakistan and to all our partners that we will do what is necessary to protect American troops and the American people," he said.
:angry::angry::angry::crazy:
 
:sniper: WARRNING!!!!
INDIA HI-ALRET ITS AIRFORCE, cancel's the holidays of its all airforce , personals.:angry::crazy:
according to GEOTV!
 
Pakistan Detains Extremist Leader
U.S., India Question Effort's Seriousness


By Joby Warrick and Rama Lakshmi
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, December 10, 2008; Page A01

For the second time in a decade, suspected Pakistani terrorist leader Masood Azhar was placed under house arrest yesterday after being linked to attacks in India. His detention, announced by Pakistan's Defense Ministry, was intended to show the country's resolve in hunting for the organizers of last month's deadly rampage in Mumbai.

Yet in the U.S. and Indian capitals, the news of Azhar's arrest drew mostly scoffs. As officials in both countries noted, Pakistan never bothered to charge the Kashmiri extremist when it detained him in connection with a deadly attack on India's Parliament in December 2001. A Pakistani judge freed him 11 months later.

The Azhar saga accounts for some of the skepticism that has surrounded Pakistan's efforts to crack down on extremists in the wake of the Nov. 26 terrorist rampage in Mumbai. Promises by Pakistani leaders to roll up militant groups have been undercut by a history of "catch-and-release" in its dealings with prominent extremists, and also by its past ambivalence -- if not outright support -- for groups that openly advocate terrorism.

The emerging response is serving as a test of whether the U.S.-backed government in Pakistan is serious about taking on the armed Islamist groups it helped create, and if the country's powerful military and spy service will allow civilian officials to do so. Whether India believes Pakistan is helping in the investigation of one of the worst attacks on its soil in years could determine whether the two nuclear-armed nations continue a halting peace process or move closer to confrontation. Pakistan's reaction to the Mumbai assault could also prove pivotal as it confronts an escalating threat from groups that it once nurtured as weapons against enemies in India and Afghanistan but that have now turned their fire inward on Pakistan.

Under intense pressure from India and the Bush administration, Pakistan in recent days has staged a series of raids on training camps linked to Lashkar-i-Taiba, the Kashmiri-based group said by India to be behind the Mumbai siege. Pakistani officials detained Lashkar commander Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi as well as Azhar, the founder of the militant group Jaish-i-Muhammad.

Yet Pakistan has balked at turning over suspects to India and has declined to release the names of most of the 22 people it has reportedly rounded up since the raids began Sunday. Despite encouraging rhetoric from senior Pakistani leaders, U.S. officials say it is not yet clear that Pakistan's government is willing, or able, to crack down on the country's anti-India extremist groups, some of which are linked to al-Qaeda.

While U.S. officials applauded the Pakistani efforts -- especially the arrest of Lakhvi -- they have not been able to independently confirm anything about the other detainees, including "whether they are, in fact, Lashkar members," said one senior U.S. counterterrorism official who is closely monitoring Pakistan's response.

"It remains to be seen," said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of diplomatic sensitivities. "There have been instances in the past where the Pakistanis arrested extremists after terrorist attacks on India but released them several months later, after the international pressure eased up."

Also unclear, according to U.S. officials and private analysts, is whether the government of newly elected President Asif Ali Zardari can move effectively against the insurgents without the full support of the military and the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, which have undermined similar attempts in the past.

"The writ of the state is eroding," said Kamran Bokhari, director of Middle East analysis for Stratfor, a private intelligence company. "It's not just an issue of intent, but an issue of capability. Can these guys deliver?"

Zardari has described the Mumbai gunmen as "criminals, attackers and murderers," and there were signs that his administration was ready to match rhetoric with action. Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, who flew to Islamabad for high-level talks immediately after the Mumbai assault, found senior Pakistani officials sobered and awakening, perhaps for the first time, to the magnitude of the problem they face, according to sources close to the admiral. While recognizing that they have to take decisive action against extremists, sources said, the Pakistanis also realize that a domestic backlash, both politically and in terms of terrorism, is the inevitable result.

U.S. officials have been pressing Pakistan to take aggressive measures in a series of private meetings and public events. Gen. David H. Petraeus, former U.S. commander in Iraq and now head of the U.S. Central Command, said in a speech yesterday that insurgent havens in Pakistan remain a "significant concern," adding that the Mumbai siege "highlights the extent of the challenges Pakistan faces." :crazy:
Pakistan and India have fought three wars since 1947, and resentments run deep, particularly in the disputed territory of Kashmir. For many Pakistanis, the prospect of turning over citizens to India to face terrorism charges is too much to stomach, some analysts said.

"Pakistan doesn't want to be seen as caving to political pressure from India," said Robert Grenier, a former CIA station chief in Islamabad and now managing director of Kroll, a risk consulting firm. Because of the torrent of rhetoric from both countries after the rampage, many old wounds have reopened, and opportunities for real cooperation have diminished, he said. "The atmosphere has been greatly complicated if not poisoned," Grenier said. :agree::tup:
As of late yesterday, most of the 20 Pakistani nationals whom India has demanded that Pakistan arrest and turn over remained at large. Only two days before the start of Pakistan's raids on Lashkar camps, Lashkar founder Hafiz Sayeed gave a public lecture at a mosque in the eastern Pakistani city of Lahore. The mosque is controlled by Jamaat-ud-Dawa, an organization described by U.S. intelligence officials as a front group for Lashkar.

On Monday, police officials in Lahore said they planned to shut down the facilities of banned militant religious groups. But the Jamaat-ud-Dawa mosque and headquarters remained open hours later, and it was unclear whether Sayeed would face arrest.

The arrests that Pakistan has made came only after the U.S. applied heavy pressure on Zardari and Pakistan's military leadership. :tsk::lol:They came nearly two weeks after the deadly assault on India's financial capital, in which 10 gunmen opened fire at a restaurant and train station and laid siege to two luxury hotels and a Jewish prayer center, killing more than 170 people, including six Americans, and wounding at least 230. Indian officials yesterday released the names of the 10 gunmen and said they were all Pakistani nationals who belonged to Lashkar.

In Mumbai, chief police investigator Rakesh Maria released what he said were the addresses of the nine gunmen killed in the attack, along with photos of eight of them. All were 20 to 28 years old, and most were from Punjab province in Pakistan's heartland, far from the North-West Frontier Province that has been the front line in Pakistan's growing insurgency. One gunman was captured.

A senior Indian official dismissed Pakistan's raids as nothing new, and far short of the "concrete action" demanded by the scale of the carnage in Mumbai. "We have been there and we have traversed that road before," he said, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "Let us wait and see if there will be a realistic change on the ground." :tsk:
Lakshmi reported from New Delhi. Correspondents Candace Rondeaux in Islamabad and Emily Wax in Mumbai and staff writer Karen DeYoung and news researcher Julie Tate in Washington contributed to this report.
 
:sniper: WARRNING!!!!
INDIA HI-ALRET ITS AIRFORCE, cancel's the holidays of its all airforce , personals.:angry::crazy:
according to GEOTV!

Hahah funny :chilli: :cheesy: :toast_sign: let them get ready to get shot down like always if they dont want peace its time for practice for us hahahah fools!!!!
 
Positive step

thehindu.co.in
Online edition of India's National Newspaper
Wednesday, December 10, 2008



After the civilian government was pressured by the military to backslide from its initial assurances of practical cooperation in the investigation of the terrorist attack on Mumbai, political and social Pakistan seemed to go into denial bordering on defiance. But given the firm and mature handling of the crisis by political India and the mounting international pressure on Islamabad to act against the terrorist infrastructure, the Pakistan People’s Party regime decide d to take one step forward. Sunday’s raids on a camp of the Lashkar-e-Taiba — a banned organisation working behind a charitable front, Jamaat-ud-Dawa — and the arrest of Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, the organisation’s military commander and the alleged mastermind behind the Mumbai terror, and several other Lashkar operatives must be welcomed. It suggests that the Indian and international pressure is working, and also that there has been some stiffening of the civilian government’s spine.

Interestingly, in an article titled “The Terrorists Want to Destroy Pakistan, Too,” published in The New York Times, President Asif Ali Zardari confirms the reality of the raids, “which resulted in the arrest of militants,” and promises that Pakistan will take action “against the non-state actors found within our territory, treating them as criminals, terrorists, and murderers.” He reiterates that taking forward the peace process with India, “a mature nation and a stable democracy,” is very much on his political agenda. He invites India to work together with Pakistan to “track down the terrorists who caused mayhem in Mumbai” and elsewhere, including Islamabad. Following a meeting of the Defence Committee of the Cabinet (DCC), attended among others by Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Islamabad has offered New Delhi intelligence-sharing and investigative assistance within the ambit of Pakistani law. Specifically, it has proposed a joint investigation commission and a visit to India by a high-level delegation comprising Federal Investigation Agency officials, intelligence personnel, and diplomats. Conscious of the peace stakes involved and the vulnerability of the transition to democracy in Pakistan, official and political India must avoid going into a rejectionist mode. It must not underestimate its diplomatic and political capabilities or the international sympathy and support it has got after the Mumbai terror strikes. It must factor in the worsening situation in Afghanistan, and four major Taliban attacks during the past month on U.S. and Nato supplies in Pakistan, which have increased the western pressure on Islamabad to act more resolutely. While meeting every positive Pakistani response half way, India must keep in focus the gamut of anti-terrorism obligations mandated for all states by United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 — and ask Pakistan to live up to these obligations in letter and in spirit. In an evolving situation, that will be the sober and responsible policy approach.:undecided:
 
:angry:geo news,
pakistan accepted, the technical incurrsion's of IAF.
according to geo news ! pakistani president asif zardari, has accepted, that IAF did the technical incurrsion's , of pakistani aerospace.:angry:

so , some thing is going around guys?:angry:
 
US papers question Pakistan’s version
DAWNNEWS.COM
December 16, 2008 Tuesday Zilhaj 17, 1429

By Our Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Dec 14: The US media on Sunday questioned Pakistan’s version of the Indian air violations, pointing out that two violations happening at least 100 miles from each other could not have been inadvertent.

Also, one US news magazine reported that the Indian military is trying to convince decision-makers in New Delhi to authorise an aerial attack on Muridke, a Jamaatud Dawa base.

“The Pakistani government sought to play down the airspace violations as ‘inadvertent,’ but it did not elaborate on how two separate breaches so far away could be unintended and coincidental,” observed The New York Times.

The newspaper noted that one violation occurred over the portion of Azad Kashmir while the other happened at least 100 miles south, near Lahore.

The NYT pointed out that “both areas are strongholds of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jamaatud Dawa, the charity group shut down last week by the Pakistani government after the United Nations labelled it a front for Lashkar.”

The Washington Post noted that while the Pakistani government downplayed the significance of the air violations, Commodore Humayun Viqar, a spokesman for the Pakistan Air Force, said that the force would remain on alert to “thwart any aggression” from India.

Almost all major US media outlets reported the incident, pointing out that Pakistan scrambled its own jets to intercept the Indian fighters to chase them back across the border, adding that this was not a response to an accidental breach of air space.At least one report said that Pakistan declared emergency at its airbases after the violations.

Meanwhile, Weekly Standard, a right-leaning American opinion magazine close to the ruling Republican Party, reported in its latest issue that the Indian military establishment is trying to convince the decision-makers in the Congress government to attack Muridke.

The Indian military argued that an aerial attack on Muridke could be justified on the basis of the pattern of the ongoing drone attacks inside the Pakistani territory by Afghanistan-based US forces, which are targeting Al Qaeda and Taliban hideouts, the report added.:crazy:
The Indian government is being pursued by the military establishment to declare Muridke an enemy hideout [of Lashkar-e-Taiba militants] before targeting it,” the report said.:angry::disagree::tsk:
 
Maintaining sanity
EDITORIAL, DAWN NEWS!



OVER the weekend, the subcontinent had harrowing moments. Indian air force planes violated Pakistan’s airspace. PAF planes went up to challenge them and the intruders went back. With British Prime Minister Gordon Brown present, President Asif Ali Zardari told a press conference on Sunday that the violation by the Indian planes was “technical”. :crazy::angry:A similar version has been given by the PAF spokesman — a version that sections of the American media did not accept.:lol::angry: How come, they said, that two violations should occur at the same time 100 miles from each other? Whether the intrusion was inadvertent or whether hawkish elements in the Indian defence establishment wanted to test Pakistan’s nerve is immaterial; what did indeed take place was the breach of a country’s sovereignty — something that India’s own chief justice does not approve of. Unaware of what was going to happen later in the night, Chief Justice K.G. Balakrishnan told an international conference on human rights in New Delhi on Saturday that there were better and judicial ways of combating terrorism than “arbitrarily breaching another nation’s sovereignty”. Without mentioning Pakistan he said that, in the absence of bilateral extradition treaties, there was “no clear basis for international cooperation” against terrorist attacks. Justice Balakrishnan’s words of wisdom and sanity came in the wake of a statement by Hindu extremist leader Sudershan, who asked India to prepare for a nuclear war. Let us thank heavens that in the midst of such fanatics on both sides and the war hysteria being created by the Indian media and a section of their counterparts here, there are still men who have the courage to censure chauvinism and uphold the cardinal principles which are the basis of human civilisation.

Another Indo-Pakistan war will destabilise South Asia. Which is exactly what the terrorists opposed to the now suspended normalisation process want. :agree:The British prime minister asserted what the media — and not just in India — tends to forget: Pakistan was one of the worst victims of terrorism having suffered 50 suicide attacks last year. Mr Brown’s was the second high-profile visit by a western diplomat in recent days, and he echoed the sentiments Condoleezza Rice had expressed during her visit to Islamabad and New Delhi. Both believed that the Mumbai terrorists had links with elements in this country, but both also made it clear that Pakistan had pledged to continue to combat terrorism.

Islamabad has committed 100,000 troops to the operation against the Taliban, and it would be a pity if the hawks in India were allowed to create a situation that would distract Islamabad from its anti-terrorist operations in Fata.:agree: Equally, Pakistan would be in a much better position to combat terrorism if some ‘religious’ parties gave up their reticence vis-เ-vis acts of terror by the Taliban.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom