Mumbai Attacks

[Black Stone]

This little midget is really making a fool out of himself, empty threats are not going to do anything. Even the leadership of Pakistan have started to ignore his threats because they dont have any weight in it. If India would act like a responsablie nation and engage Pakistan in the right way, they would actually get results. Call me old fashioned but i was told "If you want help, ask someone nicely". With all these empty threats and constant war mongering, Indians have just shot themselves in the foot.

I can understand your feeling, when threats are used very often it gets boring now and then. This would only get interesting when threats are backed with actions.

I believe we will see more of these type of behaviors.

 

[Flintlock]

By that definition, IRA was also labelled as a "Terrorist" organization but without them, there never would've been an Independent Irish state. Every region throughout history has gained independence by the use of force at one point or another. When kashmiri's picked up arms, they were labelled terrorists. When they dropped them, they're STILL labelled terrorists. Exactly why peaceful protesters are being shot in Kashmir. What EXACTLY should they do?

Let them do what they want, but don't use that excuse to finance and run Jehadi camps.

 

[Energon]

As Flintlock rightly points out, the groups in question were established by the state with the sole intention of exporting terrorism to India so that open war with an impending unfavorable outcome could be avoided along with blame for commencing subversive acts of war and murder. This dastardly policy may have worked well for a while, but has obviously ended up backfiring. There have certainly been public overtures by the current Pakistani establishment in regards to the state divorcing itself from this policy of yesteryear; how genuine their intention and subsequent efforts will be remains to be seen.

Based on recent opinions voiced by some in the Pakistani intelligentsia it is also evident that there is a growing awareness internally in regards to the noxious side effects of nurturing and exporting terrorism for so called national gain; this of course backed by healthy doses of 'explosive' reality checks on an almost day to day basis within virtually every corner of Pakistan. I truly hope that this movement generates ample momentum so that there is a decisive move away from militancy and radicalism.

The point however remains that nobody outside Pakistan should have to pay for the mistakes effected by the breakdown of governmental policies and parts of the social fabric within it. And frankly, it should have never come to this in the first place.

I have very little doubt that in light of the above mentioned situation there will be no further reprieves in such matters, at least in the foreseeable future; and the concept of preemptive strikes (something that should make most people extremely uncomfortable) will now be adopted as the silent mantra against Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What I mean is, that they are not a result of the "backlash" because of the GWOT.
They are of course a part of the GWOT - they should be - since they are terror groups.

And your reasoning is bollocks - without support from the Pakistani state in the first place, there would be on Lashkar - so its got nothing to do with Kashmir. Kashmir is simply being used as tool by the Pakistanis to brainwash their jehadis.

As Flintlock rightly points out, the groups in question were established by the state with the sole intention of exporting terrorism to India so that open war with an impending unfavorable outcome could be avoided along with blame for commencing subversive acts of war and murder. This dastardly policy may have worked well for a while, but has obviously ended up backfiring. There have certainly been public overtures by the current Pakistani establishment in regards to the state divorcing itself from this policy of yesteryear; how genuine their intention and subsequent efforts will be remains to be seen.

Based on recent opinions voiced by some in the Pakistani intelligentsia it is also evident that there is a growing awareness internally in regards to the noxious side effects of nurturing and exporting terrorism for so called national gain; this of course backed by healthy doses of 'explosive' reality checks on an almost day to day basis within virtually every corner of Pakistan. I truly hope that this movement generates ample momentum so that there is a decisive move away from militancy and radicalism.

The point however remains that nobody outside Pakistan should have to pay for the mistakes effected by the breakdown of governmental policies and parts of the social fabric within it. And frankly, it should have never come to this in the first place.

I have very little doubt that in light of the above mentioned situation there will be no further reprieves in such matters, at least in the foreseeable future; and the concept of preemptive strikes (something that should make most people extremely uncomfortable) will now be adopted as the silent mantra against Pakistan.

Contrary to the dissembling and rewriting of history going on - the groups were established solely due to India unilaterally violating the peaceful resolution of the Kashmir dispute through the principles of plebiscite/referendum under both the instrument of partition and UNSC resolutions (agreed to by both sides) in favor of continued illegal Indian occupation and usurpation of Kashmiri land.

India is not paying the price for flawed policies by PaKistan, she is paying the price for her own illegal occupation and violation of international commitments in Kashmir, and therefore only has herself to blame for this and other acts by LeT or Kashmiri Freedom Fighting groups.

The fact remains that India needs to start acting like a responsible state and fulfill her obligations to the international community, Pakistan and the Kashmiris.

One can only hope that Indians will slowly learn to not justify immorality, illegality and occupation of a people under the guise of 'nationalism'.

 

[PureLogic]

Pakistan's been in chaos for the past 3 years now. We know how to handle our problems. India should focus on HER problems and stop blaming everything on Pakistan.

Two mutually opposite statements in a row....

I am clueless. What you actually want to say?? If you know how to solve your problems, then how come Pakistan is in chaos for 3 years?

 

[mchoudhu]

Talat did a very good program discussing in detail the evidence that was provided by india about the mumbai terror attacks.

Live with Talat - 16 January 2009 | Pakistan Politics

Please watch it.

 

[Flintlock]

I found this video on youtube. One of my favourite shows on ajj tv.

WVXS0hq0b84[/media] - 4 Man Show 3rd Jan 2009

enjoy.

He's reading from a piece of paper? How pathetic is that !

 

[Chanakyaa]

judge it for ur self do they look foriegn.
they look indians 1000%.

1. Strange that none of the media (TV or Print) have picked this up at all. Or have they been deliberately ignoring it?

Have a look at the above picture of one of the terrorists. [Another angle]

Notice the orange thread / band on his right hand.

Tying a red thread or cord around the wrist is a Hindu practice and it is unlikely a Muslim, especially one politicized enough to carry out an attack such as this, would observe it. I think this provides more evidence that this was a false flag operation or at least an attack by a non-Muslim group. For more information about the significance of the red thread see wikipedia and this blog post. [Thanks to Uruk]

Additionally, the terrorists inside the Nariman House Building were reported to have stocked up on supplies on Wednesday evening, buying not just food items but liquor, among other things, from a local store [Source]. Again, it is highly unlikely that a Muslim, let alone a ‘Mujahid’, and especially one politicized enough to carry out such an attack, would consume liquor in normal life, let alone hours before his inevitable ‘martyrdom’.

Don’t let them ignore it. Circulate this to as many people as you can as we strongly believe it wouldn’t have been ignored if the terrorists were carrying a copy of the Qur’an, or a taveez.

I am sure That the GoV of pakistan has more sensible people.
Your Govt has Admitted that Kasab is a Pakistani.. Still This Argument ?

More over suppose an Indian who looks 99.99% like a pakistani or bangladeshi , makes a lookup of the traditional wear of ur country and does something wrong , is it even 1% sensible to judge the nationality of a person by clothes ?

Come to India , you see Germans , Americans dressed as Indians.. This doesnt mean what u stressed on..

2. Indians are claiming that one of the attackers was captured and says he is from Faridkot, near Multan:
Mumbai police capture terrorist alive and claim he is from Pakistan | Mail Online

Can anyone confirm if there is a Faridkot in Pakistan?

The only Faridkot I can find is in Indian Punjab:
Faridkot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ask This to Mr. Nawaz Shareef who Claimed it to be True on TV Live !

3.Clearly Jalalabad is in Afghanistan, its all part of a global conspiricy against Pakistan

Even if its a Conspiracy , I dont Think pakistan is a fool to accept it. They accepted it coz its True.

4. Ahmed Quraishi.com

??

5. The raakhi wearing “Muhammad Ajmal Muhammad Amin Ajmal Muhammad Muhammad Kasave Ajmal Kazab Kazim Muhammad Azim Qasime Muhammad Qasam. The names change hourly depending on how well they suite with terrorist names or organisations.

Your source of the Claim ??

6. An article by guardian: Ravinder Kaur: To call the Mumbai attacks India's 9/11 makes a false analogy with Bush's war on terror | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

7. aangirfan: Mumbai Attackers were 'Hindus' and 'White Men'

Then Your Govt is a Group of Mindless people to admit them as Pakistani.. Come on How many times will u repeat this Fiction ?

AND finally

‘Terror in Mumbay’ & Malegaon ‘Hindu Terror’, Any Connections??, Who ‘hired’ them?

1. The country was in a mood of getting real colour of terror most recentently happened, ‘hindu folks’ involvements were slowly uncovered!

2. The brave hero, ATS Chief Hemanth Karkare was intelligently uncovering the masks of real ‘terrorists’ who played recent terrors in India. He was given a threat to his life just before two days of this ‘terror in Mumbay’!

3. The 1st target of ‘Mubai terrorists’ was ATS leaders - three of ‘most wanted’ by Malegaon criminals immediately shot dead in early hours of said ‘Mumbai Terror’, including Hemanth Karkare!

4. It is true that ‘Mumbai Terrorists’ entered thru sea! but did they crossed international boarders or just took off from Gujarat or neasrby seas within Indian territtory?

Firstly , all the statements include a "Indian" hand ..
So All your Points are Thrashed by a single statement of Mine that When Pak GoV has admitted Kasab to be Pakistani then it menas the terrosrists were from pak ( I dont say its common people , i know that even they hate terrorism ) .

Secondly , I agree that radical Hindu elemets exist and thay are to be blamed for their activites , but They are NOt Capable of Such a strike , Infact Even ULFA or similar organistations cant Do It.

5. It is well known that ‘Mumbai Terrorists’ had very good and excellenge knowledge about their targets, the most important one was the ATS leaders! They are well familiar with Taj and other o their targets!

I have friends who know more than an average Pakistani about pakistan.. ( Reading hobby and Google earth Surfers ) , Does that imply they are pakistani ?

6. The 1st 38 hours of ‘Mumbai Terror’ operation, there were no much clues were obtained nor media not much covered to link with Pakistan !

The Terrorists Didnt make a TV show to Claim their identity !
We Dont make Conclusions before investigating it.

7. Unlike Leshkare Tayyeb’s jehadists with bears and turbans, this youngsters are clean shaved without having beared! are they really Jehadis? One of the terrorists media showed was wearing a yellow band on his right hand (a sanghi sign, as seen in Gujarat riot scenes - even RSS female cadres wears it)!

Childish , are Hollywood Movies banned in PAK ?

You make this statement in 21st Century ?

Does Every man in Pak have a Beard ?

8. The situation changes immedately after biggest ‘Terrorist’ Gujarat hero Modi’s visits in Mumbai! Sonia, Prime Minister and LK Advani also visited Mumbai before Modi however nobody declared someone, why?

Why Modi visited Mumbai unlike other CMs of other states?

Whats Wrong in It ?

He immeditely declares the hands of Pakistan in ‘Mumbai Terror’ - how he knows it?

Source ?

He immedately declares of financial aids of 1 crore to every military man killed, to Maharastra govt, all people killed?? Why? wht is the connection of Gujarat and ‘Mumbai Terror’…

In case of Crisis Even India Gave Blankets to Pak and Pak did the same in Gujrat Earth Quake .. Any Coonection ?
Its called "Human Response" if u understand it.
And if u understand it more .. Its Publicity Stunt as well..

What is the reason of his ‘over smartness’ of taking the media?

What do u mean ??

Why ‘Terrorist Hero Mr. Modi declares aid to people before Manmohan or Maharastra CM declares? and much bigger amounts than them?? was it from his pocket or from public money?

He Has Enough Money . He is from a State with 11% GDP rate.
and whats wrong to Give Money ?
Is it Crime in PAK to help ?

This should be well investigated, he may know who hired the terrorists in Mumbai who killed the ATS leaders and challegning the nation!

Karkare Got their Himself and Terrorists Didnt came to Kill Him.
Pal, if there was even a slight hand of BJP or VHP u think Congress will let it away ?

They Lost..
The Home Minister
The CM
The Deputy CM
NSA Resigned
Nas it hasnet Stopped.

9. And this ‘terror’ takes place just day before assembly elections in some states!

In None of the States terrorism was NOT an issue. It was development.

Now you guess, has it any ‘real’ connections with ‘ Malegaon ‘ hindu terrorism??

See the image of the Gunman and decide for yourself who was the man. The man is wearing a color band on his right hand which Sangeis (Red thread) usually wear.

Indians and Pakistani are sensible People they Judge the facts.
You are an exception to see and Judge ?

Do they Give Death Sentense all the "Gun" holders in Pak Movies ?


LOL @ INDIA nice Story for Bollywood not for Reality base lollll[/QUOTE]

Indians Make Realistic Movies that win Golden Globes NOT one But 4 !
We Know HOW to do it..

 

[Beskar]

Jalalabad, Pakistan? Someone must've been High from all the "Natural" drinks available while creating that report.

 

[civfanatic]

Hopr you guys love it



YouTube - MUMBAI - NOT A MOSSAD CIA JOB

 

[Energon]

Contrary to the dissembling and rewriting of history going on - the groups were established solely due to India unilaterally violating the peaceful resolution of the Kashmir dispute through the principles of plebiscite/referendum under both the instrument of partition and UNSC resolutions (agreed to by both sides) in favor of continued illegal Indian occupation and usurpation of Kashmiri land.

India is not paying the price for flawed policies by PaKistan, she is paying the price for her own illegal occupation and violation of international commitments in Kashmir, and therefore only has herself to blame for this and other acts by LeT or Kashmiri Freedom Fighting groups.

The fact remains that India needs to start acting like a responsible state and fulfill her obligations to the international community, Pakistan and the Kashmiris.

One can only hope that Indians will slowly learn to not justify immorality, illegality and occupation of a people under the guise of 'nationalism'.

To quote Flintlock for the sake of cogency... your reasoning is bollocks.

You're deluding yourself if you think these organizations were set up to be public interest groups running after school specials for Indian Kashmiri interests (which have nothing to do with Pakistan). That countless international episodes of mass terrorism lead right back to them is proof enough.

Pakistan is and has been for a while now an epicenter of Islamist/Islamic terrorism. There is no denying that other parties have been involved in Pakistan gaining this status (particularly the USA). However most of the advances in this field have been at the behest of the Pakistani leadership itself. Using terrorism as a weapon against India via proxies like LeT and JeM has also been a long standing national policy after running out of conventional military options. Blaming everyone else at this point through a set pattern of pathetic arguments is a complete waste of time, not to mention an insult to basic intelligence, as are attempts to justify Pakistani acts of terrorism.

It is also unlikely that India or any other country for that matter can and/or will take cues from terrorism emanating from Pakistan when it comes to resolution of their internal matters. It is by far the most responsible thing a state can do.

 

[Neo]

‘India likely to face more Mumbai-style attacks’​

* RAND Corporation releases report titled ‘The Lessons of Mumbai’, says attacks likely to inspire more terrorists
* Says attacks targetted people and facilities with ‘emotional, political value’​

LAHORE: The Mumbai attacks suggest the possibility of an escalating terrorist campaign in South Asia, and “India can expect more attacks with high body counts and symbolic targets”, a study by the RAND Corporation – a leading US think-tank – has predicted.

The RAND study, part-funded by the Pentagon, identifies the tactical features of the military-style Mumbai attacks – “planning for which may have begun way back in 2007” – also highlights weaknesses in India’s counter-terrorism structure and weighs in on the implications of the attacks for India, Pakistan and the US.

“India will continue to face a serious jihadist threat from Pakistan-based terrorist groups, and neither Indian nor US policy is likely to reduce that threat in the near future,” said Angel Rabasa – lead author of the study and a political scientist with RAND.

Inspiration: “Other extremist groups in Pakistan likely will find inspiration in the Mumbai attacks, and we can expect more attacks with high body counts and symbolic targets.”

According to researchers, the selection of multiple targets – Americans, Britons and Jews, as well as Indians – suggests that the terrorists intended the attack to serve ‘multiple objectives’ that extended beyond their ‘previous linear focus on Kashmir’.

Target: "The goal was not only to slaughter as many people as they could, but to target specific groups of people and facilities with political, cultural and emotional value. This indicates a level of strategic thought – a strategic culture – that poses a difficult challenge: not whether we can outgun the terrorists, but can we outthink them?” said Brian Michael Jenkins, a senior adviser at RAND.

Former US ambassador to India Robert Blackwill; Ashley Tellis, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace; and five other South Asia experts have contributed to the study.

India holds the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LT) responsible for the attacks and is looking for a way to punish Pakistan to deter future attacks.

The report acknowledges that both countries have nuclear weapons, making any military action ‘a dangerous course’, but warns if India does not respond, that “would signal a lack of Indian resolve or capability”.

“Without an appropriate response, Pakistan, or at least those elements of its military and intelligence leadership that are supportive of the activities of groups like the LT, are likely to conclude that these operations, in some measure, yield benefits that exceed the cost,” said RAND while releasing the study titled ‘The Lessons of Mumbai’.

For these and other reasons, US researchers say, India is likely to remain a “target of Pakistan-based and indigenous Islamist terrorism”.

The US think-tank also says the focus on Pakistan should not obscure the fact that the terrorists likely had help from inside India. “Local radicalisation is a major goal of the terrorists, and will be a major political and social challenge for India," it warned.

 

[Black Stone]

India: Pakistan must be disciplined

India's foreign minister calls on the international community to discipline Islamabad over its alleged 'terrorism sponsorship' activities.

In an apparent reference to Pakistan, Pranab Mukherjee said Wednesday that the problem of terrorism becomes complex when "recalcitrant" states do not recognize their international commitments.

"It clearly spells out that if a state apparatus sponsors terrorism as an act of state policy, or a recalcitrant state refuses to recognize its international commitments and responsibilities on not allowing the use of (its) territory for terror activities, the problem becomes more complex and difficult," Mukherjee said in New Delhi.

Tension has been running high between the nuclear-armed neighbors since the attacks on the Indian port city of Mumbai on November 26-29 which killed 179 people.

Comparing the magnitude of the Mumbai siege to the September 11 terror attacks in the US, the foreign minister emphasized terrorism today is not just an act of misguided individuals or a small group.

"Therefore it is high time for the international community to recognize that such recalcitrant states must be brought to discipline by resorting to various international mechanisms," he added.

The remarks are the latest among the tit-for-tat accusations between the two neighbors in the aftermath of last year's terror attacks on Mumbai.

New Delhi, London, and Washington hold a Pakistan-based militant group called Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) responsible for attacks.

Indian authorities are frustrated at what they see as Islamabad's slow response in arresting and prosecuting those allegedly involved in the case.

Islamabad has been angered by the Indian claims that Pakistani state agencies were engaged in the incident as well as India's repeated hints at a military option.

Pakistan has condemned the Mumbai attacks from the outset and has vehemently denied involvement of any of its agencies in the attacks.

Pakistan has so far detained scores of LeT members and members of an affiliated charity, the Jamaat-ul-Dawa (JuD), allegedly involved in the Mumbai siege. The country's Interior Ministry Chief Rehman Malik set a 10-day deadline at the weekend for an investigating team to complete a report.

 

[PureLogic]

This is certainly not going in good direction. This will only add mess in the matter. One more such attack and GoI will be forced by the citizens' anger to show some 'war-action'. And if this happens, all we get is nothing but chaos.

 

[EagleEyes]

If there is a retaliatory response because of another such incident Pakistan should remain calm, and let the Indian control their hormones, but be ready and prepeared to shoot some birds down.