Mumbai Attacks

[Jihad]

i wanna ask a question from pakistanis
what evidence do you think is good enough for proving something eg kasab is Pakistani,how should it be proven by Indians? what kind of evidence will be called "full proof"?

The world would be a very cruel and unfair place if all nations started accusing one another of something and then back it up with baseless evidence and with letters that really have no value at all.
It simply doesn't work that way, I myself can write a letter and tell the court that this letter was written by you threatening to kill me.

 

[Rajkumar]

The FBI has already concluded that Kasab was not Pakistani, is that evidence enough for you. That was just Indian propaganda that Kasab was Pakistani as usual. I dont know if my Indian friends realize what evidence really is, if they want to prove that Kasab is Pakistani than show some sort of identification. His Shanakthi card, his passport or even a driving license would do just fine . This is called evidence; not the Indian definition of evidence(We Indian authorities are saying that Kasab is Pakistani so this is evidence)

like KARGIL?
Indian provided these types of proof after kargil war to prove that these are Pakistani soldiers still Pakistan denied it for long time.
so we should assume that Pakistan will agree with India after some time?

 

[notorious_eagle]

like KARGIL?
Indian provided these types of proof after kargil war to prove that these are Pakistani soldiers still Pakistan denied it for long time.
so we should assume that Pakistan will agree with India after some time?

Kargil was a different story, it was Nawaz Shariff who was trying to suck up to the US and it was entirely his fault. During Kargil, yes there were a lot of blunders and i think Nawaz Shariff should take the blame for that. But lets go back to the bombing of Indian Parliament in 2001, India didnt provide any proof but only made baseless allegations. Over and over again, India does not provides any evidence but likes to whine and *****. Now we are this point that nobody really pays any attention to India , btw Kargil and this current situation are totally different.

 

[linkinpark]

Here is the evidence given to Pakistan.

Link (pdf file)

I urge Pakistani posters go through the evidence before making any comments. There is more evidence that many of you don't know because it was not in the media. Happy reading.

 

[roadrunner]

Here is the evidence given to Pakistan.

Link (pdf file)

I urge Pakistani posters go through the evidence before making any comments. There is more evidence that many of you don't know because it was not in the media. Happy reading.

Good grief. If evidence 1 is anything to go by, what a joke.

How do you count, "Nestle milk powder - Made in Pakistan" as a piece of evidence ?

I could go and order some Nestle milk powder from "Abdul's corner shop" on Chadrigar Road.

Do you honestly believe the authorities could not have ordered some of that stuff and claim it was left at the crime scene?

I have good reason to believe it may have been planted, since I can name several previous incidents where Indian police have carried out explosions they tried to blame on Pakistan.

I can't believe the Indian police are this stupid. Perhaps I was wrong.

Can you point to any real evidence in there?

 

[Neo]

Pakistan dubs dossier mere ‘propaganda’​

7 Jan 2009

NEW DELHI: Despite it being backed by none other than the US, a recalcitrant Pakistan has rubbished India’s ‘‘so-called’’ evidence linking Mumbai attacks with Pakistan nationals saying it was no more than allegations and propaganda offensive.

In a statement which is likely to further stoke anger in India, if not lead to another flare up, Pakistan foreign secretary Salman Bashir told the foreign relations committee of Pakistan National Assembly on Tuesday that evidence provided by India was not credible enough.

Bashir also said that PM Manmohan Singh’s statement blaming official agencies in Pakistan for the Mumbai attacks would escalate tension and eventually push the two countries towards war. He added in his address to the committee that any military action by India would prove to be its ‘‘biggest mistake’’.

Bashir’s statement authenticated reports in Pakistan media which suggested that Islamabad has already picked enough holes in the Indian dossier linking Mumbai attacks to Pakistan nationals to suggest that the evidence was doctored by New Delhi.

Pakistan’s minister of state for foreign affairs Malik Emaad Khan too asked India to provide evidence which would stand the scrutiny of law. That Pakistan was not going to cower in the face of the diplomatic offensive by India was evident when Khan said that Pakistan would come up with a ‘‘befitting’’ reply for any Indian military adventurism and described the situation as ‘‘very tense’’.

There was no response from the Indian side to this development till late in the evening. Minister of state for foreign affairs Anand Sharma said that, as a first step, Pakistan should acknowledge that Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist survivor, is a Pakistani. However, going by the reports in Pakistan media, Kasab’s confession has found few takers, if at all, in Pakistan.

 

[Flintlock]

Very sad, disappointing, but expected.

The verdict is out I guess then. Pakistan has chosen denial. So be it.

 

[anand]

If credible evidence means Pakistani passports found with terrorists, then sorry we do not have that.
What kind of evidence Pakistan want, boarding passes, Pakistani SIM cards, Identity cards issued by Pakistani government. Come on terrorist will not carry all those things.
A Pakistani person comes forward and tells that Kasab is my son, but Pakistani minister says no he is not your son. Whom should I believe, a father or minister.

 

[rubyjackass]

Kargil was a different story, it was Nawaz Shariff who was trying to suck up to the US and it was entirely his fault. During Kargil, yes there were a lot of blunders and i think Nawaz Shariff should take the blame for that. But lets go back to the bombing of Indian Parliament in 2001, India didnt provide any proof but only made baseless allegations. Over and over again, India does not provides any evidence but likes to whine and *****. Now we are this point that nobody really pays any attention to India , btw Kargil and this current situation are totally different.

If Pakistan accepted its involvement during the conflict, then it would have been full-scale war, with the whole world against Paksitan. People blame Nawaz Shariff without any understanding of the situation.

 

[notorious_eagle]

If Pakistan accepted its involvement during the conflict, then it would have been full-scale war, with the whole world against Paksitan. People blame Nawaz Shariff without any understanding of the situation.

See, Nawaz Shariff backed off. Well not the whole world, it was just the US but at that time US was the whole world. Nawaz Shariff should have stood firm, he should have made it clear to the world that Pakistan was not going to back off but as usual he betrayed the nation.

 

[roadrunner]

If credible evidence means Pakistani passports found with terrorists, then sorry we do not have that.
What kind of evidence Pakistan want, boarding passes, Pakistani SIM cards, Identity cards issued by Pakistani government. Come on terrorist will not carry all those things.

But of course a Hindi speaking Kalava wearing terrorist that was conveniently captured alive having been drugged out during his "mission", and caught giggling to himself in photos, is not evidence of a coverup whatsoever!

I think the point Pakistan is making is that the proof provided by India does not meet the standard required to pass a guilty verdict in a court of law.

If the police catch someone, plant drugs on him, then he claims the police did plant those drugs on him, this is not enough to get a conviction. You need to prove he's lying to get the conviction. You could use past behaviour. In which case, India has been caught trying to false flag Pakistan, and in fact the Indian Army has been caught red handed blowing up its own trains and trying to blame Pakistan. You would never get a conviction in a court of law based on that evidence.

A Pakistani person comes forward and tells that Kasab is my son, but Pakistani minister says no he is not your son. Whom should I believe, a father or minister.

It's very simple. Hand over Kasab to a neutral doctor.

Pakistan can hand this alleged father over.

A DNA test can be done, and there will be no match.

This is how all paternity tests are decided.

When a woman claims Mr X is the father of her child, the court does not believe the parent automatically. Why? Because she may have a vested interest.

Similarly, the alleged father/newspapers have vested interests.

If you want to get a conviction in a court of law, you need to get SOLID evidence like DNA test results.

The noodle cartons with a stamp of "MADE IN PAKISTAN" emblazoned on the side would be laughed out of any courtroom in the world

 

[anand]

But of course a Hindi speaking Kalava wearing terrorist that was conveniently captured alive having been drugged out during his "mission", and caught giggling to himself in photos, is not evidence of a coverup whatsoever!

I think the point Pakistan is making is that the proof provided by India does not meet the standard required to pass a guilty verdict in a court of law.

If the police catch someone, plant drugs on him, then he claims the police did plant those drugs on him, this is not enough to get a conviction. You need to prove he's lying to get the conviction. You could use past behaviour. In which case, India has been caught trying to false flag Pakistan, and in fact the Indian Army has been caught red handed blowing up its own trains and trying to blame Pakistan. You would never get a conviction in a court of law based on that evidence.



It's very simple. Hand over Kasab to a neutral doctor.

Pakistan can hand this alleged father over.

A DNA test can be done, and there will be no match.

This is how all paternity tests are decided.

When a woman claims Mr X is the father of her child, the court does not believe the parent automatically. Why? Because she may have a vested interest.

Similarly, the alleged father/newspapers have vested interests.

If you want to get a conviction in a court of law, you need to get SOLID evidence like DNA test results.

The noodle cartons with a stamp of "MADE IN PAKISTAN" emblazoned on the side would be laughed out of any courtroom in the world

·"This is clear they (attackers) had links in Pakistan. " Richard Boucher said.
·Boucher said Washington had tried to encourage India to share information with Pakistan.
·Boucher: "People in Pakistan have determination to find those responsible and those who did it."

ISLAMABAD, Jan. 5 (Xinhua) -- U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asian Affairs Richard Boucher claimed Monday that the Mumbai attackers had links in Pakistan.

"This is clear they (attackers) had links in Pakistan. The attackers had links that leads to Pakistan," Boucher told a group of reporters at the U.S. embassy after talks with Pakistan's president and prime minister.

He welcomed the Indian decision to share information with Pakistan and said, "People in Pakistan have determination to find those responsible and those who did it."

Boucher said that he was glad to know India provided information to Pakistan, adding that Washington had tried to encourage India to share information with Pakistan.

"There is determination here (in Pakistan) to follow up and find the groups responsible for Mumbai attacks," he said.

To a question about the situation along the borders after Pakistan pulled out troops from the tribal region and deployed along Indian borders, Boucher said, "The situation is calm on the borders."

He said that the U.S. had encouraged both sides not to push for military confrontation and the best way was to do through dialogue.

Boucher said that during his meetings in Islamabad, he found that Pakistan had shown determination to deal with both the groups and individuals in terms of taking actions against them.

"Pakistan has done quite a lot," he said. He added that Pakistan and India must deal with those who harmed the Kashmir issue and were involved in terrorist activities.

He stressed that the two sides must exchange information to stop future attacks. "Both are working how to develop the probe," he said.

"Let's find whoever were to be involved. We are talking to both. We have direct interest as six U.S. citizens were killed. We are interested that the responsible must be found," he said.

"People have to work with each other to follow each other leads. We want to encourage them. They need serious work," he said.

He said that Indian investigations were advancing, adding that he would also visit India.

He said that Pakistan had also arrested several people of the banned Jamaat-ul-Dawa and closed their offices. "Pakistan is serious to deal with the threat of terrorism," he said.

U.S. official: Mumbai attackers have links in Pakistan_English_Xinhua

 

[dabong1]

New Delhi: Amidst the clutter of telephone calls the Indian intelligence agencies were monitoring into and out of the Taj Mahal hotel on the night of the November 26 terrorist attack was one from a ‘virtual number’ – 12012531824 — generated by a Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) telephony service based in the United States.

According to the dossier prepared by the Indian government outlining select details of what investigators have uncovered so far about last November’s Mumbai attacks, Pakistan-based “controllers/handlers used the virtual number to contact a mobile telephone with one of the terrorists. This conversation was intercepted and, thereafter, all calls made through the virtual number were also intercepted and recorded.”

Providing the first-ever details of the investigations into the VoIP account, the dossier says the virtual number was initially set up with a U.S. company, Callphonex, by an individual who identified himself as Kharak Singh from India.

The account was activated by a money gram transferred in the name of Mohammed Ashfaq. “Kharak Singh also requested Callphonex to assign five Austrian Direct Inward Dialling (DID) numbers because his clients called from different countries, including India,” the dossier says. The account was paid for by a money transfer of $238.78 through Western Union by one Javaid Iqbal who provided, as a form of identification, a Pakistani passport (No. KC 092481).

The dossier adds: “Investigations have revealed that Callphonex asked Kharak Singh if he was from India why the Western Union Transfer was coming from Pakistan.

No reply


Apparently, Callphonex received no reply. The VoIP interceptions yielded more evidence to Indian agencies as they revealed the use of three Austrian numbers “which were given to the terrorists by the controllers/handlers and conversations with these numbers by the terrorists were also intercepted and recorded,” the dossier notes.

These Austrian numbers, in turn, correspond to the DID numbers assigned by Callphonex to ‘Kharak Singh.’ The details of the VoIP account are one of multiple pieces of evidence the Indian government has laid out before Pakistan and all Delhi-based foreign envoys to prove its claim that the attacks on Mumbai were staged by elements from Pakistan.

Several ambassadors who were present at the region-wise briefings at the Ministry of External Affairs on Monday and Tuesday told The Hindu that they found the Indian dossier compelling. “It is fully in line with our own belief of how this incident was planned,” said one of the envoys from the group of 14 countries who lost citizens in the attacks.

In their oral presentations, Indian officials told the envoys of their belief that the ISI was indeed involved in the incident. Though this claim was not contested, at least one nation, the United States, has told India it is still not in a position to share this perception.

One of the transcripts contained in the dossier provides the answer to why the terrorists left their satellite phone behind on the Kuber with potentially incriminating data. “Did you open the locks for the water below,” a caller from Pakistan asked one of the terrorists at the Taj Hotel at 0126 hours on November 27, presumably in a reference to a pre-arranged plan to sink the trawler. “No, they did not open the locks. We left it like that because of being in a hurry. We made a big mistake,” the receiver of the phone call answered. “What big mistake?,” he was asked. “When we were getting into the boat, the waves were quite high. Another boat came. Everyone raised an alarm that the Navy had come. Everyone jumped quickly. In this confusion, the satellite phone of Ismail got left behind,” the terrorist replied. The dossier also notes in passing that the GPS set contained trackback points which “were the RV for their intended return after the attack.”

At Monday’s briefing for the 14 nations who lost citizens in the attack, one of the ambassadors asked Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon whether this meant the attack was perhaps not a suicide mission after all. Mr. Menon reportedly said that this was one of the issues which still needed to be probed.

The dossier also contains a second section in which India has attempted to draw attention to the contradictory nature of Pakistan’s response to the Mumbai attacks, Pakistan’s failure to respond appropriately to Indian requests for cooperation when evidence was provided to it about terrorist acts in the past, and an outline of Pakistan’s bilateral and international commitments and obligations.

The last section of the dossier contains an outline of what India expects Pakistan to do in the wake of the Mumbai attacks. “This was a conspiracy launched from Pakistan. Gaps in knowledge can be filled by investigation and interrogation of conspirators there,” the dossier states, adding, “Some of the actions that India expects Pakistan to undertake in extending cooperation to bring the terrorists to justice are: Hand over conspirators to face justice in India, hand over fugitives from Indian law based in Pakistan, Dismantle infrastructure of terrorism, Prevent terrorist acts from Pakistan, Adhere to and implement bilateral, multilateral and international obligations.”

The dossier notes that on the basis of the interrogation of Mohammed Ajmal Amir ‘Kasab,’ the lone terrorist to be captured alive, the role of Lashkar commander Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi in the training of the crew had been established. The terrorist group initially consisted of 32 persons but the team chosen for the operation was eventually whittled down to 10.

Other LeT commanders involved were Abu Hamza, ‘Kaahfa,’ and Yousuf alias Muzammil, the dossier says. Among the material evidence India has in its possession is the 11-seater inflatable dinghy the terrorists used to move from the hijacked trawler, Kuber, to Mumbai.

“An attempt was made by the terrorists to erase the engine number but it has been retrieved by investigators. The outboard motor number is 67 CL-1020015, manufactured by Yamaha Motor Corporation and imported into Pakistan and distributed by a company named ‘Business & Engineering Trends’ in Lahore.” Several items including toiletries, food articles, drums containing diesel and clothes “bear clear evidence of having been manufactured in Pakistan.” Photographs of all these items are provided in an annexure.

The transcripts in the dossier make it apparent that the six handlers were closely monitoring events in Mumbai through the live TV coverage which went on non-stop for 60 hours. “There are three ministers and one secretary of the cabinet in your hotel. We don’t know in which room,” a Pakistan-based caller tells a terrorist at the Taj at 0310 hrs on November 27. “Oh! That is good news” It is the icing on the cake!,” he replies. “Find those 3-4 persons and then get whatever you want from India,” he is instructed. “Pray that we find them,” he answers.

At the Oberoi at 0353 hrs on November 27, a handler phones and says:

“Brother Abdul. The media is comparing your action to 9/11. One senior police official has been killed.”

Abdul Rehman: “We are on the10th/11th floor. We have five hostages.”

Caller 2 (Kafa): Everything is being recorded by the media. Inflict the maximum damage. Keep fighting. Don’t be taken alive.

Caller: Kill all hostages, except the two Muslims. Keep your phone switched on so that we can hear the gunfire.

Fahadullah: We have three foreigners, including women. From Singapore and China.

Caller: Kill them. The dossier then notes that the telephone intercept records the “voices of Fahadullah and Abdul Rehman directing hostages to stand in a line, and telling two Muslims to stand aside. Sound of gunfire. Cheering voices in background. Kafa hands telephone to Zarar,” who says, “Fahad, find the way to go downstairs.”

In another call, to the Taj this time, a handler says, “The ATS chief has been killed. Your work is very important. Allah is helping you. The Vazir (minister) should not escape. Try and set the place on fire.”

At Nariman House at 1945 hrs on November 27, the handler ‘Wassi’ tells a terrorist: “Keep in mind that hostages are of use only as long as you do not come under fire because of their safety. If you are still threatened, then don’t saddle yourself with the burden of the hostages. Immediately kill them.” He then adds, “The Army claims to have done the work without any hostage being harmed. Another thing: Israel has made a request through diplomatic channels to save the hostages. If the hostages are killed, it will spoil relations between India and Israel.”

“So be it, God willing,” the terrorist replies.
The Hindu : Front Page : Dossier: handlers used virtual number to contact a mobile with one of the terrorists

 

[tarrar]

evidence given to pakistan after 1 month crap..India have made the evidence according to thr need its all lies and thr is no truth in this we have already proven the india govt and indian media wrong.. but thnx to our pathetic media thy are spreading false info this is media terrorism and GEO is doing good in this b******s.

 

[ajpirzada]

Here is the evidence given to Pakistan.

Link (pdf file)

I urge Pakistani posters go through the evidence before making any comments. There is more evidence that many of you don't know because it was not in the media. Happy reading.

i have read the first one and i would say there is considerable amount of evidence in there which need to be looked into by pakistani investigators. im not talkin about milk cartons. but that yamaha engine thing, gun which was made in peshawar, and few others which i dont remember. invetigation is currently underway and i hope culprit will be brought to justice. pakistani and indian investigators need to work together inorder to put an end to all this.