Mumbai Attacks

[hindesi]

He is not saying what he means by deluded. If he means that we do not believe that TTP is behind the attacks, then he is wrong. Most Pakistanis believe that. If he is talking about indian involvement, then he is misinformed. People have reason to believe in indian involvement. If you believe that each and every bit of information is presented to people by governments, you're the one deluded.

Firstly, I'd like to know the reason why Pakistanis feel so with proofs and not some random video of a guy saying stuff..

Secondly I totally agree with you when you say one should not believe everything the governments have to say. I never said I believe all that the GOI or Indian media has to say not only regarding Pakistan but in general as well, they're journalist not gods.. they're prone to be bias and would try to force their views on people and that holds true for media everywhere in the civilized world.

If I remember there were no comments on the article you posted.

True but I felt after reading many Pakistanis comments and they seemed logical and analytical hence the interpretation that they might agree to what Nadeem F Pasha has to say if not everything than certainly most of the stuff.

It makes a "a little sense" to you and some Pakistan-hating Pakistanis. I couldnt' care less what these people have to say. I do not know what comments you're posted but the posts are always along the lines of "you must be deluded" or "conspiracy theorists" etc, which never answer the concerns but just use cheap tactics to shut people up.

No it makes sense in general, you don't want to believe it.. thts totally another matter. I just asked you guys to read the article with an open mind dinn I? .. I was protesting about why the comments were deleted thts all.. believing in what Nadem says or not is Pakistans civil society's prerogative. I gave my opinion saying his analysis of Pakistani society in spot on. And FYI if someone criticizes, it does not mean he hates you.. just so you know.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...hmad-qureshi-fight-against-indian-terror.html

This type of mentality is what Nadeem is talking about in that article. People like Zaid Hameed who doesn't know **** are given importance and spot light by your media. Read the comments posted by some Pakistanis there and then read Nadeem's article.
Hell this guy Zaid claimed Kasab is Arjun singh WTF!!! what happened afterwards.. GOP accepted that he was a Pakistani national dinn they?? These people are war mongerers, they poison vulnerable minds with their propaganda and are bane to any society.. We have our share of these people as well but they don't get the kind of spotlight Zaid Hameed and Co. get in Pakistan. and thank allah/rama/jesus for it!!!


Im off to watch Inglorious Basterds

 

[haawk]

Italian arrests cast fresh doubt on Islamabad probe’s integrity

Last November, two rubber dinghies carrying 10 Lashkar-e-Taiba “fidayeen” armed with assault rifles and explosives nudged up along the Mumbai shoreline.

One hundred and seventy-three people died, and more than 300 were injured in the carnage that followed.

In the months that have passed, evidence has been mounting that Pakistan investigators had failed to act against key perpetrators—and, worse, may have colluded in effort to help them evade justice.

During his visit to Jammu and Kashmir last month, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh made clear his dissatisfaction with the Pakistani investigation—the latest in a series of Indian high officials to do so. “We are not satisfied,” he said, “that goes without saying. We hope Pakistan will take effective measures to bring to justice all the perpetrators of 26/11.”

Saturday’s arrests in Italy have thrown up fresh evidence that muddies Pakistan’s claims to be serious about investigating the carnage in Mumbai.

In February, 2009, Pakistan’s Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik alleged that Barcelona resident Javed Iqbal was responsible for transferring funds to the United States-based voice-over-internet service used by the Lashkar to guide the assault unit that carried out the attacks.

“Having ascertained the involvement of Javed Iqbal,” Mr. Malik told journalists, “we somehow lured him into coming to Pakistan and he was arrested on his arrival.”

Pakistani investigators were reported to have discovered Mr. Iqbal’s role in the funds transfers after examining a computer used by a key Lashkar commander, identified by the code-name Zarar Shah.

But in an exclusive interview to The Hindu, Italian counter-terrorism police chief Stefano Fonzi asserted that Mr. Iqbal had never in fact travelled to his country—and was likely a victim of identity theft.

Italy’s crack Divisione Investigazioni Generali e Operazioni Speciali, [Division of General Investigations and Special Operations] arrested 60-year-old Mohammad Yaqub Janjua and his 31-year-old son Aamer Yaqub Janjua routing the funds through their Brescia business.

“We discovered,” Mr. Fonzi said, “that the Brescia-based outfit had made several transfers using the identity of totally innocent, unsuspecting persons. Thus there were over 300 transfers in the name of a certain Javed Iqbal, who had never even set foot in Italy,

Mr. Fonzi also said the owners of the funds acted on instructions from two Pakistan-based individuals he was not at liberty to name. It is unclear why Pakistan has not held the two suspects.

Missing commanders

India investigators believe that the funds trail could lead to Sajid Mir—head of the Lashkar’s transcontinental operations, whose name has figured in investigations of terrorist cells stretching from Australia and Europe to the United States.

Many Indian investigators believe Mir, who remains at large, could in fact be Zarar Shah: the commander who guided the Mumbai assault team through the voice-over-internet connections purchased through Brescia.

Pakistani authorities have identified Sheikhupura resident Abdul Wajid as “Zarar Shah,” and charged him with organising these transactions. However, Pakistan has refused to allow the FBI access to Wajid, raising suspicions that he may in fact be a relatively low-level operative. It has also so far failed to provide Wajid’s voice samples, which would allow them to be matched against the audio in the intercepted phone calls.

Despite an official request, Indian authorities have also been denied photographs of Wajid, which would allow the Mumbai police to confirm if he is indeed the individual known as Zarar Shah to jihadists who met him in the past—among them alleged Indian Mujahideen co-founder Sadiq Israr Sheikh.

Both Indian and U.S.investigators have also been denied access to two other key suspects, Lashkar military chief Zaki-ur-Rahman Lakhvi and his deputy, Mazhar Iqbal.

For the most part, Pakistan’s action against the top leadership of the Lashkar has been marked by indifference.

Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, head of the Lashkar’s parent religious-political group, the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, has never been prosecuted for leading the organisation that carried out the attacks.

Muzammil Bhat, the Lashkar’s top military commander, remains at large, though intercepted phone calls show he remains in touch with Lashkar units across Pakistan.

In recent weeks, new leads have begun to emerge, with the arrests of Lashkar operatives Ronald Headley and Tahawwur Rana in Chicago—men India believes may have carried out pre-attack reconnaissance for the assault team.

“But without full cooperation from Pakistan,” a senior Indian intelligence official told The Hindu, “it is profoundly unlikely we’ll ever know the full picture.”

 

[PostColonial]

Even the Italians have joined in the anti-Pakistan propaganda!

 

[Srinivas]

Good news if true. Hopefully, it will expose the real culprits behind these attacks.

Its always nice to catch the culprits. Hoping that RAW gets exposed soon with the funding to the terrorists in Pakistan.

Sure Webbie if India is behind those attacks and that is a BIG IF

 

[Srinivas]

As far as indian consulates go, it's not just the consulates, its the number of so-called information centers and secret centers that india has to support terrorism. I don't see any results that india has achieved in Afghanistan other than building some roads. I do know what they have been doing as far as TTP is concerned.

Before accusing India just look at the past history of Pakistan whose head of state once dreamed of Afghanistan as their new province. India is doing Humanitarian assistance by building roads and infrastructure it is not giving logistical support to Taliban.
Afganistan is a sovereign country and it is internal matter for it to decide how many indian consulates it needs. in case you forgot it is your own zardari who has signed a peace deal in SWAT not long ago which further helped the aspirations of these terrorists.

 

[SMC]

Firstly, I'd like to know the reason why Pakistanis feel so with proofs and not some random video of a guy saying stuff..

I am not taking the Zaid Hamid video as proof of a mumbai conspiracy. I still believe that it was LeT. However, the story that indians have put forward has some loop holes and the question raised in the video highlight those loopholes. It has some interesting questions that remain unanswered. Answering those questions and closing those loopholes would make the story stronger.

True but I felt after reading many Pakistanis comments and they seemed logical and analytical hence the interpretation that they might agree to what Nadeem F Pasha has to say if not everything than certainly most of the stuff.

No it makes sense in general, you don't want to believe it.. thts totally another matter. I just asked you guys to read the article with an open mind dinn I? .. I was protesting about why the comments were deleted thts all.. believing in what Nadem says or not is Pakistans civil society's prerogative. I gave my opinion saying his analysis of Pakistani society in spot on. And FYI if someone criticizes, it does not mean he hates you.. just so you know.

Again, "logical and analytical" is subjective. What logic depends on is the existance of every single bit of information. If one bit of information is missing, logic cannot be used to make conclusions.

Making sense in general is again subjective.

What do you mean I don't want to believe it? I don't want to believe that india is not behind terrorism? That's like saying I don't want to believe grass is green. It's not really a point.

One cannot look at the article from an open mind because it forces you to look at things from its view. Its a heavily biased article, a blog no less. The arguments put forward by the article have been posted several times on this forum and have been countered repeatedly.

Yes there is no doubt that TTP is behind the attack, but the question is their funding. The CIA-RAW-Mossad angle goes a bit too far. I believe it is only RAW behind supporting terrorism. CIA and Mossad are possibilities but RAW is confirmed. He only says that anyone believing this is delusional, which is nothing but a personal attack and offers nothing constructive against it.

So to summarize, the article offers nothing new except what has been said by indians over and over again on this forum, and has been countered repeatedly.

If you agree with the article, great. Don't think many people here (Pakistanis) care.

 

[SMC]

Before accusing India just look at the past history of Pakistan whose head of state once dreamed of Afghanistan as their new province.

Doesn't give india right to support terrorism.

India is doing Humanitarian assistance by building roads and infrastructure it is not giving logistical support to Taliban.

And they have achieved very little. They have achieved quite a bit on another front.

Afganistan is a sovereign country and it is internal matter for it to decide how many indian consulates it needs.

If the consulates are helping terrorists, then it becomes our problem.

in case you forgot it is your own zardari who has signed a peace deal in SWAT not long ago which further helped the aspirations of these terrorists.

And you know what happened to them in Swat. Now US is making secret peace deals with terrorists. What's your point?

 

[Srinivas]

Doesn't give india right to support terrorism.

Come with credible evedence like Kasab Until then then it is not a credible statement.
India is not supporting any terrorist organizations Ask your own ISI who is still thinking these TTP as a strategic asset to use them against India.
Pakistan on one side is supporting these so called Taliban(forgot to say "good taliban") and on the other side waging a war(god only knows how this can be done).

And they have achieved very little. They have achieved quite a bit on another front.

India is doing humanitarian assistance and you cannot measure achievements regarding that.

If the consulates are helping terrorists, then it becomes our problem.

again a statement which has no credebility with out any back up evidence

And you know what happened to them in Swat. Now US is making secret peace deals with terrorists. What's your point?

So can i say pakistan is doing great job than US?
the point is GOP and ISI has been working closely and the only thing that separates them is WOT and US involvement. Apart from that these Taliban and ISI have strong links.

 

[RiazHaq]

S.M. Mushrif, former Police Chief of Maharashtra and the author of "Who Killed Karkare?", believes that the Indian Intelligence Bureau (IB) is up to its neck in conspiring with the extreme Hindutva groups against Indian Muslims and creating trouble between India and Pakistan, and now it is ominous to see one of the former IB leaders K.C. Verma heading RAW as of early this year.

The power establishment that really runs the affairs of India (Mushrif says it is not Sonia Gandhi, Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi) does not want to expose the rabidly anti-Muslim Hindutva terrorists.

Verma was appointed earlier this year as the new head of RAW, regarded as one of the top intelligence agencies along with Mossad, ISI, SVR, MI6, and the CIA. This choice appears to have been made at the suggestion of intelligence hawks like B. Raman to appoint an outsider, in spite of significant resistance from within the agency. Mr. Verma has been tasked with rapidly building strong covert ops capabilities within RAW. It is not a coincidence that the terrorist attacks in Pakistan have dramatically increased since Verma took the reins of RAW.


I think Shekhar Gupta, who recently wrote in India Express about the undisguised glee in India, knows some of the most hateful Indian bigots lurking here on the Internet, and their misguided cohorts in India. Gupta is calling them "the mobs" and singling them out for his most caustic warnings against "jubilating" and "utterly unconcealed sense of delight" at the unfolding tragedy in Pakistan.

"Finally" he is sounding the alarm to all anti-Pakistan chauvinists in India that "time has also come to set in place some kind of diplomatic standard operating procedures in case more terror attacks take place because a third round of coercive diplomacy may spin out of control".

Haq's Musings: Taliban or RAW-liban?

 

[Iggy]

Heroes of Nariman House

Among the people attending the function, I was surprised to meet Maulana Mohammed Niyaz of the nearby Colaba Masjid. He also runs Darul Uloom Hanfia Razvia, a madrassa that has 175 students. “What brings you to this meeting organised by the Shiv Sena?” He replied unflappably: “We share the grief of all the people who have gathered here. We are all Indians, irrespective of our religions. I pray to Allah that He does hifazat of Hindustan. Anyone who looks at Hindustan with an evil eye, even if it is Pakistan, has to have that eye taken out.” I met him later in his masjid to continue the conversation. “Those were terrible days for us,” he said. “We were afraid that some extremists might harm Muslims, who are only 10 per cent of Colaba’s population. But Vijaybhai, whom I know for many years, assured me on the first night that he would ensure the safety of the mosque and the madrassa. He not only kept his word, but also sent food to the inmates for three days. On the third day, Shiv Sainiks helped us shift the madrassa students to a safe place. I later wrote a letter of thanks to Vijaybhai. In these matters, I don’t see party labels. If someone has done good work, it must be appreciated


So much for Hindu terrorists...Also read the link to know about common people who turned heroes..Muslims are also in it..


I saw special report about 9/11 yesterday on CNN IBN ..The same story was told by the Vijay Surve and Maulana Mohammed Niyaz...Nice to see that even if they had different political policies ,in the time of crisis they helped each other and work together...

 

[arihant]

S.M. Mushrif, former Police Chief of Maharashtra and the author of "Who Killed Karkare?", believes that the Indian Intelligence Bureau (IB) is up to its neck in conspiring with the extreme Hindutva groups against Indian Muslims and creating trouble between India and Pakistan, and now it is ominous to see one of the former IB leaders K.C. Verma heading RAW as of early this year.

The power establishment that really runs the affairs of India (Mushrif says it is not Sonia Gandhi, Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi) does not want to expose the rabidly anti-Muslim Hindutva terrorists.

Verma was appointed earlier this year as the new head of RAW, regarded as one of the top intelligence agencies along with Mossad, ISI, SVR, MI6, and the CIA. This choice appears to have been made at the suggestion of intelligence hawks like B. Raman to appoint an outsider, in spite of significant resistance from within the agency. Mr. Verma has been tasked with rapidly building strong covert ops capabilities within RAW. It is not a coincidence that the terrorist attacks in Pakistan have dramatically increased since Verma took the reins of RAW.


I think Shekhar Gupta, who recently wrote in India Express about the undisguised glee in India, knows some of the most hateful Indian bigots lurking here on the Internet, and their misguided cohorts in India. Gupta is calling them "the mobs" and singling them out for his most caustic warnings against "jubilating" and "utterly unconcealed sense of delight" at the unfolding tragedy in Pakistan.

"Finally" he is sounding the alarm to all anti-Pakistan chauvinists in India that "time has also come to set in place some kind of diplomatic standard operating procedures in case more terror attacks take place because a third round of coercive diplomacy may spin out of control".

Haq's Musings: Taliban or RAW-liban?

First of good advertising of your blog.

Second he has written book. Similar is with Book written by Jaswant Singh.

He has not only blame IB for Karkare;s dead but also blamed Hindus for all attacks happen in India. He gives clear chit to Islamist Terrorist.

Do you need more info. I think this is over.

First of all RAW unlike ISI is govern by PM. So whatever RAW is doing PM knows and we all know how our PM is.

"It is not a coincidence that the terrorist attacks in Pakistan have dramatically increased since Verma took the reins of RAW." - Sorry brother could not digest. It looks that he became Chief order massacre in Pakistan. Good to know from you that there is not TTP. Also, not en coincidence that Naxal attacks have increased after ban on JuD.

 

[arihant]

Your history goes back only so many years. Let me remind you who started terrorism. Remember 1971? RAW's heavy involvement in supporting terrorists? OK you might make the argument of supporting liberation of bengalis, but same argument can be used against you that since Kashmiris are oppressed, we are merely supporting their liberation. Again, see how angle works.

You are now calling Bangladeshi as Terrorist.

You supporting their Liberation ? As per Pakistan, Kashmir is a part of Pakistan and not independent. Also UN Resolution doesn't allow for Independence. India is not active in integrating Baluch, Jinnapur, Sindhudesh, or pakhotoonistan as a part of Indian Republican. But you are surely doing this making fool kashmiri about their independence dream.

 

[BSF]

Man...this Zahaid dude has some serious problems with RAW and MOSSAD and CIA.

May be they abducted him and did some experiments on him and left him.

Some times Ajmal is Amar and some times he is a Pakistani...Sure...Sure.....

 

[arihant]

Man...this Zahaid dude has some serious problems with RAW and MOSSAD and CIA.

May be they abducted him and did some experiments on him and left him.

Some times Ajmal is Amar and some times he is a Pakistani...Sure...Sure.....

Brother, Zaid Hamid itself is Kasab.

 

[SMC]

You are now calling Bangladeshi as Terrorist.

The people that RAW supported.

You supporting their Liberation ?

Just incase you came up with that argument.

As per Pakistan, Kashmir is a part of Pakistan and not independent. Also UN Resolution doesn't allow for Independence.

Irrelevant. The IoK part of Kashmir needs liberation.

But you are surely doing this making fool kashmiri about their independence dream.

You just proved my point. If india can use terrorists and call them liberators then so can Pakistan.