Mumbai Attacks
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Captain03
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how lame
the only reason the indian media is doing this is becuase a chinese newspaper stated that the mumbai massacre was internally organized in india
they should watch out though
the chinese intelligence is very smart
even the cia cant keep track of them
the only reason the indian media is doing this is becuase a chinese newspaper stated that the mumbai massacre was internally organized in india
they should watch out though
the chinese intelligence is very smart
even the cia cant keep track of them
BanglaBhoot
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I think a case of biting off more than they can chew. Not finding any credible information against Pakistan the Indians are now bringing everyone and everything into the conspiracy including the kitchen sink and soon aliens.
If one more attack happens then as this incident India will prove it is from Pakistan soil and world will tell to dismantle its terror infrastructure.
Pakistan will act as if it is acting and never really does.
That's why Obama is linking its aid to results not to how it is acting.
If you feed snake it will bite you.
You feeded taliban now they are biting you.
Same will happen with LT as well.
Pakistan will act as if it is acting and never really does.
That's why Obama is linking its aid to results not to how it is acting.
If you feed snake it will bite you.
You feeded taliban now they are biting you.
Same will happen with LT as well.
Please below as reply
YouTube - Secret Government - Pakistan
YouTube - Secret Government - Pakistan
No really we fell sorry for you as your army fail to protect your territory and your men in war.
Refrain comparing war prisoners from our army.
Is 1971 lesson not enough you want more?
do not ignite with these statements and check reality.
Salahadin
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haviZsultan
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India has effectively lost the impetus to bash Pakistan and the West is no longer interested in the GoI's continual political bakwas on Mumbai. See the following to get another insight from a GORA instead of the proverbial locals. Maybe Indians can find his familial link to our Zaid Hamid?
dOyCG6zKRXA[/media] - Alex Jones American Analyst Exposing Mumbai Attacks
If u're not in Canada and US dont say that. I really hate to admit but sadly the traitors from our own country and the indians did a brilliant job. Also when india moved forces to the border an article came out pakistan preparing for war with india.
Media was absolutely biased. Our viewpoint was not even represented at all. Zaid Hamid was famous in Pakistan and with some indians who stopped and questioned thinking what if its true but with others....
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Had the west not been won by India, Pakistan would'nt have been taking action. It is not India today that has toned down its rhetoric.Infact it is Pakistan that has come along way from denying Kasab's nationalty to accepting it..to eventually saying the evidence is credible.It was not a coincidence that US secretaryof State Condeleeza Rice visited India before Pakistan right after 26/11.
Pakistan was Complicit in the Mumbai Attacks
Sherryn Taylor, New York Times.
.
CommentsAfter the terrorist attacks on Mumbai on November 26, 2008, tensions between India and Pakistan were ratcheted up almost instantly. While the involvement of the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is based at least partially in Pakistan, was established relatively early on, the involvement of the Pakistani government, its intelligence services, or agents associated with them has been a more controversial and enduring source of tension. The Pakistani government denies these allegations.
The Indian government recently released a dossier of evidence gathered about the Mumbai attacks, presumably in an effort to put pressure on the international community and on Pakistan to go after the perpetrators. The following is an analysis of this dossier. For the sake of analysis, I take the evidence at face value; it is possible that some information has been omitted, exaggerated, or otherwise altered to serve the motives behind its release. Furthermore, my analysis may be erroneous, even if the dossier is not.
That being said, let's dive in.
The Terrorists
There were ten involved in the attack, nine of whom were killed. The tenth was captured, and presumably is the source of a fair bit of the information presented in the dossier. All ten were Pakistani; 9 hailed from the Punjab province, while the other was from the North-West Frontier Province. For what it's worth, the British considered certain tribes from Punjab to be more "martial" than those residing elsewhere in the portion of British India that became Pakistan. Many of the Pakistani Army's recruits were historically and are today residents of this province. The proportion of Punjabis in the army is higher than their proportion of the population as a whole (two thirds of the army vs. half of the general populace). However, there is no evidence that military personnel were actually involved.
Their Training
The terrorists were taught "a basic knowledge of firearms, ammunition, grenades and explosives" including how to "handle and fire Kalashnikov rifles and 9mm pistols and also how to fabricate explosive devices. They were also imparted training in techniques to counter interrogation and tolerate pain. Besides, they were indoctrinated to become suicide attackers." It seems unlikely that providing this training would be beyond the capabilities of a group which has been active for at least 25 years.
Their Equipment
The terrorists seemed to have a standardized set of equipment - an AK-series automatic rifle, a pistol, several spare ammo clips, several grenades, and a GPS unit and/or a cell/satellite phone. Some terrorists also carried IEDs. All of this equipment is readily available either on the black market (the guns/ammunition/grenades/IEDs) or from retailers in Pakistan (phones/GPS). The latter devices were made by well-known and widely available producers (Magellan for the GPS; Nokia and Thuraya for the phones; all three brands have retail outlets in Pakistan).
Logistics and Support
Here the evidence is more mixed. The terrorists hijacked a fishing boat which transported them from an offshore location fairly close to the India-Pakistan border (if not further; this is the first checkpoint on the recovered GPS devices) to a point a mile or so off the coast of Mumbai. The terrorists also made a number of calls to locations in Pakistan, via a routing device with links to Austria. The costs associated with the latter were covered by a Western Union payment made in Italy. The only suspicious element of the call transcripts included in the dossier were references to a director of the attack who was referred to as "Major General." However, this could well be an artificial rank created by a terrorist organization, rather than concrete evidence of military involvement. One oddity is that the recovered GPS units were pre-programmed with a return route, which is inconsistent with the dossier's claim that the terrorists were indoctrinated as a suicide unit.
The dossier's narrative concludes with the following:
The evidence gathered so far unmistakably points to the territory of Pakistan as a source of the terrorist attacks in Mumbai... It is also abundantly clear that senior functionaries of the LeT were the controllers/handlers of the ten terrorists. The evidence unmistakably establishes that the ten terrorists were chosen, trained, despatched [sic], controlled and guided by the LeT which is the organisation responsible for the terrorist attacks in Mumbai.
Conclusion
The evidence contained in the dossier seems to strongly support the claim made at the end of the narrative. However, other claims made in the aftermath of its release are not supported by the information made publicly available. Several elements of the attack - the transfer of the terrorists from the fishing vessel to the city itself and the synchronization of the attack on the Taj Mahal, which included two pairs of terrorists, one of which was assigned to attack a different target beforehand - appear to require a fair amount of skill. However, the Taliban is one group that operates in the region with experience in coordinating attacks involving several hundred assailants, albeit with more localized targets. LeT is linked to the Taliban by, among others, the United Nations Security Council, whose Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee was responsible for sanctioning LeT and its senior leaders. It is not unlikely that these related groups would actively share information about planning, training, and tactics.
Sherryn Taylor, New York Times.
.
CommentsAfter the terrorist attacks on Mumbai on November 26, 2008, tensions between India and Pakistan were ratcheted up almost instantly. While the involvement of the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is based at least partially in Pakistan, was established relatively early on, the involvement of the Pakistani government, its intelligence services, or agents associated with them has been a more controversial and enduring source of tension. The Pakistani government denies these allegations.
The Indian government recently released a dossier of evidence gathered about the Mumbai attacks, presumably in an effort to put pressure on the international community and on Pakistan to go after the perpetrators. The following is an analysis of this dossier. For the sake of analysis, I take the evidence at face value; it is possible that some information has been omitted, exaggerated, or otherwise altered to serve the motives behind its release. Furthermore, my analysis may be erroneous, even if the dossier is not.
That being said, let's dive in.
The Terrorists
There were ten involved in the attack, nine of whom were killed. The tenth was captured, and presumably is the source of a fair bit of the information presented in the dossier. All ten were Pakistani; 9 hailed from the Punjab province, while the other was from the North-West Frontier Province. For what it's worth, the British considered certain tribes from Punjab to be more "martial" than those residing elsewhere in the portion of British India that became Pakistan. Many of the Pakistani Army's recruits were historically and are today residents of this province. The proportion of Punjabis in the army is higher than their proportion of the population as a whole (two thirds of the army vs. half of the general populace). However, there is no evidence that military personnel were actually involved.
Their Training
The terrorists were taught "a basic knowledge of firearms, ammunition, grenades and explosives" including how to "handle and fire Kalashnikov rifles and 9mm pistols and also how to fabricate explosive devices. They were also imparted training in techniques to counter interrogation and tolerate pain. Besides, they were indoctrinated to become suicide attackers." It seems unlikely that providing this training would be beyond the capabilities of a group which has been active for at least 25 years.
Their Equipment
The terrorists seemed to have a standardized set of equipment - an AK-series automatic rifle, a pistol, several spare ammo clips, several grenades, and a GPS unit and/or a cell/satellite phone. Some terrorists also carried IEDs. All of this equipment is readily available either on the black market (the guns/ammunition/grenades/IEDs) or from retailers in Pakistan (phones/GPS). The latter devices were made by well-known and widely available producers (Magellan for the GPS; Nokia and Thuraya for the phones; all three brands have retail outlets in Pakistan).
Logistics and Support
Here the evidence is more mixed. The terrorists hijacked a fishing boat which transported them from an offshore location fairly close to the India-Pakistan border (if not further; this is the first checkpoint on the recovered GPS devices) to a point a mile or so off the coast of Mumbai. The terrorists also made a number of calls to locations in Pakistan, via a routing device with links to Austria. The costs associated with the latter were covered by a Western Union payment made in Italy. The only suspicious element of the call transcripts included in the dossier were references to a director of the attack who was referred to as "Major General." However, this could well be an artificial rank created by a terrorist organization, rather than concrete evidence of military involvement. One oddity is that the recovered GPS units were pre-programmed with a return route, which is inconsistent with the dossier's claim that the terrorists were indoctrinated as a suicide unit.
The dossier's narrative concludes with the following:
The evidence gathered so far unmistakably points to the territory of Pakistan as a source of the terrorist attacks in Mumbai... It is also abundantly clear that senior functionaries of the LeT were the controllers/handlers of the ten terrorists. The evidence unmistakably establishes that the ten terrorists were chosen, trained, despatched [sic], controlled and guided by the LeT which is the organisation responsible for the terrorist attacks in Mumbai.
Conclusion
The evidence contained in the dossier seems to strongly support the claim made at the end of the narrative. However, other claims made in the aftermath of its release are not supported by the information made publicly available. Several elements of the attack - the transfer of the terrorists from the fishing vessel to the city itself and the synchronization of the attack on the Taj Mahal, which included two pairs of terrorists, one of which was assigned to attack a different target beforehand - appear to require a fair amount of skill. However, the Taliban is one group that operates in the region with experience in coordinating attacks involving several hundred assailants, albeit with more localized targets. LeT is linked to the Taliban by, among others, the United Nations Security Council, whose Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee was responsible for sanctioning LeT and its senior leaders. It is not unlikely that these related groups would actively share information about planning, training, and tactics.
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Jihad
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Not to derail the thread, but who says 1971 was won by India?
Also, you check reality and READ statements coming from YOUR military commanders and generals, even they say that they drastically need to improve the whole military branch because it is inadequate especially in time of war.
Thanks.
DarkStar
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1971 was mainly the culmination of a civil war between Pakistanis themselves. Now if Bharat had occupied East Pakistan and annexed it, the story would have been different. Instead, Bharat has created a new headache for themselves, as border clashes between Bengladesh and Bharat show.
DarkStar
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You should know about feeding the snake that comes back to bite you. Have you forgotten the assasination of RAjiv Gandhi.
Even if Pakistan ceased to exist, these attacks like Mumbai would still happen. This is because they are home grown attacks, by disenfranchised and desperate people.
We all know that Bharat pointed the finger at Pakistan in order to stave off communal tensions. If the govt. had accepted that it was the work of the Deccan Mujahideen, there would have been a bloodbath of muslims in Mumbai, like 1994. The congress govt. is very clever, and has avoided this scenario by squarely blaming Pakistan. We're the proverbial scapegoat in this matter.
afriend
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Well lets not argue whther these terrorists came from abroad or not. Its proven and understood that they came from pakistan and did this heneious crime with some local support in india. However its high time that we upgrade our internal security mechanism, flush out the local terrorists plus the ones comming from abroad. And threat and pointing figures in a threating manner doesnt work,
however it should be understood that pakistan too have its responsiblities and is not doing good enough to round up these non state actors, they are having a hard time in swat areas i don't know whther the establishment is strong enough and want another head ache for the sake of indian good will. I presume they would give preference to the WOT headed by america than the terrorists aiming india, this should be avoided. And pakistan should be serious enough to disband anti india groups or shut down their training camps and make sure they dont regroup else this will continue till a point of break, which would result in drastic consequences for the region.
however it should be understood that pakistan too have its responsiblities and is not doing good enough to round up these non state actors, they are having a hard time in swat areas i don't know whther the establishment is strong enough and want another head ache for the sake of indian good will. I presume they would give preference to the WOT headed by america than the terrorists aiming india, this should be avoided. And pakistan should be serious enough to disband anti india groups or shut down their training camps and make sure they dont regroup else this will continue till a point of break, which would result in drastic consequences for the region.
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