Mullah of a local mosque incited murder of Christian couple, says police

[Imran Khan]

mullah ? kon kuch ukhar sakta hai mullah ka is mulk main ? ager kisi main jurat hai to ja ker mumtaz qadri ko touch ker ke dikha de .

 

[liontk]

I believe shia wasnt defined by any state law....

It was defined by individual molvi and to take a sick man's word as that of the state is stretching it too far!

Mind you we have more than a handful Shia in every dept and esp at decision making positions...If they are ignorant than can I call all Shias ignorant to this problem? Coz THEY better represent the state than a survey, right?

Take you pick:

Politicians and diplomats[edit]

• Haidar Abbas Rizvi
• Faisal Saleh Hayat
• Allama Syed Sajid Ali Naqvi
• Fahmida Mirza
• Zulfiqar Mirza
• Syed Fakhar Imam
• Syeda Abida Hussain
• Mian Zahid Hussain Khan
• Farzana Raja
• Shehla Raza
• Ali Nawaz Shah Rizvi
• Ali Qutab Shah Rizvi
• Mushahid Hussain Syed
• Faisal Raza Abidi
• Firdous Ashiq Awan
• Ghulam Ali Mirza
• Asif Ali Zardari
• Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
• Mazahir Ashoor Balti

Military officers and generals[edit]

• Mushaf Ali Mir
• Iskander Mirza
• Maqbool Hussain Zaidi
• Tanveer Naqvi
• Muhammad Musa
• Syed Yasir Abbas

Pakistan[edit]

• Iskander Mirza – first President of Pakistan
• Muhammad Ali Bogra – former Prime Minister of Pakistan
• Agha Yahya Khan – former President of Pakistan
• Muhammad Musa – Pakistan's Chief of Army Staff during 1965 Indo Pak war and later Governor of Balauchistan

Other Politicians

• Nayyar Hussain Bukhari Chermain Senate of Pakistan
• Ch. Nazar Muhammad Gondal (Federal Minister)
• Mir Hazar Khan Bijarani (Federal Minister)
• Syed Mehdi Shah (Chief Minister of GB Province)
• Fakhar Imam
• Sadiq Hussain Qureshi
• Makhdoom Faisal Saleh Hayat
• Faisal Sabzwari

So here is the recap of the last few years:

On October 7, 2005, eight Ahmadis were killed inside their Mandi Bahauddin place of worship.



In November 2005, Roman Catholic, Salvation Army and United Presbyterian churches were attacked at Sangla Hill (near Lahore). The attack was over allegations of violation of blasphemy laws by a local Christian, Yousaf Masih.



On March 2, 2006, a car bomb attack near the US Consulate in Karachi killed four people including a US diplomat, a day before President George Bush was to reach Pakistan.



On June 5, 2006, a Pakistani Christian, Nasir Ashraf, was working near Lahore when he drank water from a public facility. He was assaulted by the locals for his ‘sin.’ A mob developed and thrashed Ashraf.



In August 2007, a Christian missionary couple, Reverend Arif and Kathleen Khan, were gunned down in Islamabad.



On March 15, 2008, a bomb was hurled at a wall of an Islamabad restaurant. It killed a Turkish woman. Four of the 12 people wounded in the bombing were reportedly FBI agents.



On June 2, 2008, the Danish embassy in Islamabad was attacked with a car bomb, killing six people. A post purportedly from al-Qaeda appeared on the Internet a day after the attack and mentioned the publication of “insulting drawings” by a Danish newspaper and its refusal to “apologise for publishing them.”



In August 2009, six Christians were burnt alive and a church set ablaze in Gojra for allegedly desecrating the Quran.



On February 22, 2010, two Sikhs were kidnapped in the tribal belt. They were later beheaded by their abductors.



On May 28, 2010, two Ahmadi worship places in Lahore’s Garhi Shahu and Model Town localities were attacked, killing around 100 people.



On September 3, 2010, a suicide bomber blew himself up outside an Ahmadi worship place in Mardan, killing himself and an Ahmadi.



On November 8, 2010, a Christian woman, Aasia Noreen, was given death by court for being blasphemous. The accusation stemmed from a 2009 incident in which she reportedly entered into an argument after offering water to thirsty Muslim farmers, who accused her of blasphemy.



Aasia was visited in jail by the then Punjab Governor Salman Taseer, who himself was shot dead in January 2011 by his own guard for supporting the woman. Governor Taseer had remarked: “Frankly, it’s up to God to decide whether I’m a Muslim or not, and not some illiterate mullah to decide I’m a Muslim or not.”


Even the governor is not safe and here in lies the core problem that I have been highlighting to you about the need of immediate or gradual implementation of secularism or at least partial secularism to set a precedence of some kind of tolerance. I can quote more statistic but I sadly won't need to because our indian friends are quite good at reporting this on the forum though sometimes i do doubt their motives.

Who decides what "mullah" as you put it are competent or not and so hence the state gets involved in the business of religion. This is a very slipery slope because then you have to decide which ideology is acceptable to the state and here lies the problem with religion based republics. Mind you , I have read from some sources that Pakistan was not an islamic republique in its inception but later though I could be wrong on that. If you think that secularism which in itself can be redefined for each nation is contrary to islamique republic than we definitely have a matter of difference there. You can have a country with accommodation of social religious law but try as much to limit that from politics or atleast religion driven political parties(deadly cocktail).

You can list me a thousand examples of shie or other minorities doing well on paper but the result is half of the country does not consider the first governor general of the country(Monsieur Jinah) a muslim so that is a contradiction in itself. lets keep it real and in the current state of pakistan, it is better if shie and other minorities move out because in truth the country is really a sunni islamique republic of pakistan. Hence i earlier suggested semi secularism to reverse the trend and I have been here long enough to know that the current model does not work and this is based on being on the forum for the last two years and I am simply not buying the good mullah, bad mullah talk.

Dont take me wrong, I like the Pakistani people and the culture but at the rate the way things are going, I can bet you that most minorities will move out of the country and I have already encountered alot of new Pakistani christian, hazara and other communities in Canada.

 

[Dubious]

Who decides what "mullah" as you put it are competent or not and so hence the state gets involved in the business of religion.

If people actually took 2 mins of their day to read 1 verse with understanding....I am sure we dont need such Mullahs to take us for a ride!

But sadly lazy people prefer to ask "the unlearned one claiming to be knowledgeable in a set of "GOD's words" which are far from pure!"

This is a very slipery slope because then you have to decide which ideology is acceptable to the state and here lies the problem with religion based republics.

No...Both Shia and Sunni agree on many terms of the Shariah there are very few places where we disagree...at least in terms of Shariah not fatwahs nor "added and minus instructions conjured from some individual's mind"

Mind you , I have read from some sources that Pakistan was not an islamic republique in its inception but later though I could be wrong on that. If you think that secularism which in itself can be redefined for each nation is contrary to islamique republic than we definitely have a matter of difference there.

1) Many sources say 1 thing and many sources say another thing....

It is no lie that Muslims were the ONLY ones who MIGRATED TO Pakistan FROM INDIA rather than out of it! That ALONE speaks heaps!

2) We have many Muslim families who lost everything for a new land...THAT sacrifice should not be forgotten and these Mullahs are just forgetting while eating haram!

3) Hence why Secularism is a facade....If it is always redefined and has no proper definition how can we trust it? Many will misuse it to define it and bend it to their wills...they have done it with Islam why not with secularism? Start allowing EVERYTHING....no limits no hurdles?!

Will our society last another yr?

You can have a country with accommodation of social religious law but try as much to limit that from politics or atleast religion driven political parties(deadly cocktail).

That is a problem...You see when you have a hybrid....and then try to blame its problems with religion it is not fair


How many sects of Islam have not incorporated cultural believes? One example is pir and kissing a pir's feet? Where in Islam is that? however many cultures do have that as a sign of respect but ISLAM said ONLY bow to your lord....and this is just 1 example I can give you tons...but then people will start labeling me instead of reading what I write (and accepting the truth of the hybridization)

When you have a hybrid...meaning you arent even following pure Islam then why are you putting PURE ISLAMIC laws and regulations on trial for the bad doings of your making (hybrid culture/ religion)??

If the pure form was followed and problems occurred I would agree with you but till that day nope...we will always differ on this path

You can list me a thousand examples of shie or other minorities doing well on paper but the result is half of the country does not consider the first governor general of the country(Monsieur Jinah) a muslim so that is a contradiction in itself.

lets keep it real and in the current state of pakistan, it is better if shie and other minorities move out because in truth the country is really a sunni islamique republic of pakistan.

I was telling you Shia arent ONLY what the news is portraying usually if a Sunni dies or is killed they just report a Muslim was killed....Rarely you will hear a Sunni was killed are we minorities that we are unheard of? Are we not dying? Are all Sunnis enjoying their lives? and not living in fear too? Why are we not announced like the Shias?

current model does not work

What is the current model? Who follows it? Heck in the same sentence I can show that not a single rapist was trialled is that part of Islam? tell me that much and I will agree current model is real Islam!

When we havent tried real Islam how can we blame it?

I am simply not buying the good mullah, bad mullah talk.

I never call a good scholar a MUllah taht would be an insult on his education for me a Mullah is a man given charge coz of his age not his knowledge
or given charge coz he belonged to some family not coz of his knowledge
or is bought like every other institution in our country

Dont take me wrong, I like the Pakistani people and the culture but at the rate the way things are going, I can bet you that most minorities will move out of the country and I have already encountered alot of new Pakistani christian, hazara and other communities that have fled the country.

That really is a pity....Yes I agree there is a problem in Pakistan but never will I address it to Islam....Coz I know 2 things:
1) What Islam is
2) What is being practiced in Pakistan

Mind you the 2 are sadly not the same!

mullah ? kon kuch ukhar sakta hai mullah ka is mulk main ? ager kisi main jurat hai to ja ker mumtaz qadri ko touch ker ke dikha de .

Aisi attitude hi in mullah ka moun khulla rakhti hain and humara band!

 

[Imran Khan]

Aisi attitude hi in mullah ka moun khulla rakhti hain and humara band!

i just said truth . pakistan is in tight grip of madrasa and mullah . same as EU was under church in dark ages . mullah can kill me you or anyone on the name of god . in fact things whch god did not get angry mullah become gad and got angry . ajkal ka taaza khuda mullah hi hai

In taza khudaon mein bara sab se MULLAH hai
Jo perhan is ka hai woh mazhab ka kafan hai

 

[Dubious]

On March 2, 2006, a car bomb attack near the US Consulate in Karachi killed four people including a US diplomat, a day before President George Bush was to reach Pakistan.

I think I should assume when it says people its usually Sunni, right? Coz if it was Shia I am sure the newspaper wouldnt miss it out, right?

On June 5, 2006, a Pakistani Christian, Nasir Ashraf, was working near Lahore when he drank water from a public facility. He was assaulted by the locals for his ‘sin.’ A mob developed and thrashed Ashraf.

How is this anything to do with Islam?

On June 2, 2008, the Danish embassy in Islamabad was attacked with a car bomb, killing six people. A post purportedly from al-Qaeda appeared on the Internet a day after the attack and mentioned the publication of “insulting drawings” by a Danish newspaper and its refusal to “apologise for publishing them.”

Again you wouldnt allow Jewish Holocaust cartoons but its ok to do Prophet cartoons and be genuinely innocent enough not to hear a response?

Not that I am saying it is Islamic to respond like a barbarian but you also need to think of who feeds fuel to the fire...

On March 15, 2008, a bomb was hurled at a wall of an Islamabad restaurant. It killed a Turkish woman. Four of the 12 people wounded in the bombing were reportedly FBI agents.

How is this related to Islam and not some enemies of the FBI? we all know they have tons of enemies! Isnt this more political even would have happened in a pagan country fed up with being under American arse for so long!

On November 8, 2010, a Christian woman, Aasia Noreen, was given death by court for being blasphemous. The accusation stemmed from a 2009 incident in which she reportedly entered into an argument after offering water to thirsty Muslim farmers, who accused her of blasphemy.

I have no idea how entering and argument led to blasphemy....Worse part is how is this linked with Islam? Did Islam say fight? Did Islam say chop their heads off? According to shariah the head chopping is the worst punishment given but not the only! And the law blasphemy isnt even in the Quran it usually says WE (royal we for ALLAH) will deal with the blasphemy in so and so order....Now if people are not following Islam why dont you say a spade a spade? Jahalat at its best?! Because this kind of punishment is written in the old testament rather...

Aasia was visited in jail by the then Punjab Governor Salman Taseer, who himself was shot dead in January 2011 by his own guard for supporting the woman. Governor Taseer had remarked: “Frankly, it’s up to God to decide whether I’m a Muslim or not, and not some illiterate mullah to decide I’m a Muslim or not.”

Well, that was really a sad tragic each and every of this you put up is sad and is not in Islam so your point is still not valid

How can you drag Islam to court and throw a judgement called secularism when Islam was never followed to begin with!

i just said truth . pakistan is in tight grip of madrasa and mullah . same as EU was under church in dark ages . mullah can kill me you or anyone on the name of god . in fact things whch god did not get angry mullah become gad and got angry . ajkal ka taaza khuda mullah hi hai

In taza khudaon mein bara sab se MULLAH hai
Jo perhan is ka hai woh mazhab ka kafan hai

Yea EU was under dark ages under the pope not under the bible...very few people ever read the bible back then coz very few could read......Now is the same people listen to a Mullah over the Quran...sad sad state!

 

[liontk]

I think I should assume when it says people its usually Sunni, right? Coz if it was Shia I am sure the newspaper wouldnt miss it out, right?



How is this anything to do with Islam?



Again you wouldnt allow Jewish Holocaust cartoons but its ok to do Prophet cartoons and be genuinely innocent enough not to hear a response?

Not that I am saying it is Islamic to respond like a barbarian but you also need to think of who feeds fuel to the fire...



How is this related to Islam and not some enemies of the FBI? we all know they have tons of enemies! Isnt this more political even would have happened in a pagan country fed up with being under American arse for so long!


I have no idea how entering and argument led to blasphemy....Worse part is how is this linked with Islam? Did Islam say fight? Did Islam say chop their heads off? According to shariah the head chopping is the worst punishment given but not the only! And the law blasphemy isnt even in the Quran it usually says WE (royal we for ALLAH) will deal with the blasphemy in so and so order....Now if people are not following Islam why dont you say a spade a spade? Jahalat at its best?! Because this kind of punishment is written in the old testament rather...

Well, that was really a sad tragic each and every of this you put up is sad and is not in Islam so your point is still not valid

How can you drag Islam to court and throw a judgement called secularism when Islam was never followed to begin with!



Yea EU was under dark ages under the pope not under the bible...very few people ever read the bible back then coz very few could read......Now is the same people listen to a Mullah over the Quran...sad sad state!

No body is blaming islam but what we are blaming is the way it is being implemented by the state. Show me a single example of a successful theocracy or islamic republique that is as peaceful or better, which the west should take as a role model. I showed those incidences to highlight the fact that there is intolerance in the country and at no point did i criticize the faith but rather the states involvement in the implementation. We can always argue what sharia law to apply or not and you are wrong that sunni and shie have same sharia law because they are drastically different though i disagree with the state involving themselves in either sect's implementation on the political basis. Heck even within the sects, there are different variants of sharia law and at the end of the day, it all comes to down to human judgement on what to implement.

Mean while in secularism, we have universities and institutions constantly working to bring new theories and improve upon the existing system. This is the beauty of secularism and it differs from country to country based on each country's culture and attitudes.
Let me clarify again so you can get my point, the problem with sharia and government mixed with religion cocktail is that anyone can always claim that this is not true islam or that is not true islam. At this point whenever I hear a sharia advocate, it sounds very similar to how communists use to espouse the utopia that their system could give and at the end that failed. So now the communists say that communism wasn't truly implemented and the hopeless search for implementing true communism continues by a small minority of folks. However the reality is that we are not living in a utopia so we must be pragmatic in our approach and must study what systems have worked and what haven't. I am not saying that Pakistan should adopt complete secularism but it should adopt important elements and incorporate that within its structure. Like i mentioned earlier you can have social islamic laws but you must try as much as you can to keep religion away from politics.

Like i said if you still disagree , give me an example where a theocracy or islamique republic has worked in the last few centuries.

 

[Dubious]

No body is blaming islam but what we are blaming is the way it is being implemented by the state.

Problem is it is not being implemented nor regulated by the state just by Mullahs....Whose controlling them only god can tell If state is controlling them then yes there is a need to do something about these monkeys both the govt as well as the Mullahs

No body is blaming islam but what we are blaming is the way it is being implemented by the state. Show me a single example of a successful theocracy or islamic republique that is as peaceful or better, which the west should take as a role model. I showed those incidences to highlight the fact that there is intolerance in the country and at no point did i criticize the faith but rather the states involvement in the implementation. We can always argue what sharia law to apply or not and you are wrong that sunni and shie have same sharia law because they are drastically different though i disagree with the state involving themselves in either sect's implementation on the political basis. Heck even within the sects, there are different variants of sharia law and at the end of the day, it all comes to down to human judgement on what to implement.

Mean while in secularism, we have universities and institutions constantly working to bring new theories and improve upon the existing system. This is the beauty of secularism and it differs from country to country based on each country's culture and attitudes.
Let me clarify again so you can get my point, the problem with sharia and government mixed with religion cocktail is that anyone can always claim that this is not true islam or that is not true islam. At this point whenever I hear a sharia advocate, it sounds very similar to how communists use to espouse the utopia that their system could give and at the end that failed. So now the communists say that communism wasn't truly implemented and the hopeless search for implementing true communism continues by a small minority of folks. However the reality is that we are not living in a utopia so we must be pragmatic in our approach and must study what systems have worked and what haven't. I am not saying that Pakistan should adopt complete secularism but it should adopt important elements and incorporate that within its structure. Like i mentioned earlier you can have social islamic laws but you must try as much as you can to keep religion away from politics.

Like i said if you still disagree , give me an example where a theocracy or islamique republic has worked in the last few centuries.

I will read this tomorrow...Its kinda too late to answer with details and evidence....good night...

 

[liontk]

Problem is it is not being implemented nor regulated by the state just by Mullahs....Whose controlling them only god can tell If state is controlling them then yes there is a need to do something about these monkeys both the govt as well as the Mullahs


I will read this tomorrow...Its kinda too late to answer with details and evidence....good night...

ahahah we will always butt heads on these topics as I tend to see things from an application perspective(engineering) and you see things from a theoretical perspective(science) though we all know engineering>sciences at the end of the day .

 

[pak-marine]

Dont stop at the mullah get the whole mob who lynched poor couple to death ... bury them in the ground and get ahmedi muslims to stone the fck out of all of them.

 

[Icewolf]

Mullahs have ruined Pakistan

 

[jbond197]

Funny now the mullah and the mob are declared not following the right Islam. But then there are issues involving Muslims every nook and corner of the world so probably nobody follows real Islam these days.. Btw, isn't it taught to Muslims to kill anyone who insults their religion or the prophet. Now if you teach such fanatism then its obvious that some will use it as an excuse to settle personal matters.

 

[Norwegian]

Funny now the mullah and the mob are declared not following the right Islam. But then there are issues involving Muslims every nook and corner of the world so probably nobody follows real Islam these days.. Btw, isn't it taught to Muslims to kill anyone who insults their religion or the prophet. Now if you teach such fanatism then its obvious that some will use it as an excuse to settle personal matters.

Yeah its quite ironic and contradictory when Muslims want to marry or need some religious advice on some legal matter, they gladly follow these braindead Mullahs and consider their rulings "true" Islam. But God forbid if same Mullahs start inciting against non-Muslims that leads to unfortunate deaths of innocents, only then its "false" Islam

 

[HeadHunter]

Filthy mullah scum bag

 

[T-Faz]

When we havent tried real Islam how can we blame it?

I have some questions.

• What is real Islam?
• Who defines real Islam?
• Is there a country now which practices real Islam?
• When in history did this real Islam exist?
• And if so, why was it real then and not now?

 

[notsuperstitious]

I always hear secularism insults the people who gave their life for creation of pakistan.

I never hear such injustice and then perps getting away, or forced conversions etc etc insult the people who gave away their life for creation of pakistan.

It seems pakistan's creation was an end in itself @liontk