MQM MPA Shot Dead

[Hasnain2009]

Here are some statements from a TTP spokesman:-

So what is your point?

PS: The Guard of Raza Haider, who was killed was a pashtun also.

 

[sparklingway]

Qaimkhani said that the MQM had said time and again that the perpetrators belonged to the Awami National Party (ANP).

We want action now, not words: MQM – The Express Tribune

Since MQM believes that this is not the handywork of sectarians like SSP or LeJ or the TTP statement is false, I assume that they have no will to remain part of the Federal Govt. whose official statements they seem to have no confidence in.

---------- Post added at 03:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 AM ----------

I urge Quaid-e-Tehreek Altaf Hussain to renounce his British citizenship in protest over Cameroon's remarks, come back to Karachi once and for all and control the reins of his party. There cannot be any better opportune moment for him to stabilize the party. Can I expect that to happen? Of course not.

 

[sparklingway]

And when that happened? Or u just rose from ur bed and started typing?

Demanded operation in clear terms? Yes. Against whom? ANP.

So what is your point?

PS: The Guard of Raza Haider, who was killed was a pashtun also.

The usual we-have-Pathan-members as well argument.

PS: That is what one of the few jobs that they do in Karachi.

 

[Hasnain2009]

We want action now, not words: MQM – The Express Tribune

Since MQM believes that this is not the handywork of sectarians like SSP or LeJ or the TTP statement is false, I assume that they have no will to remain part of the Federal Govt. whose official statements they seem to have no confidence in.

After this press conference no one can rule out ANP's involvement.

Bcoz of this press conference, MQM made comments against ANP soon after the death of Raza Haider, but now they are saying that Govt should start operation against drug dealers, ssp stc.

I urge Quaid-e-Tehreek Altaf Hussain to renounce his British citizenship in protest over Cameroon's remarks, come back to Karachi once and for all and control the reins of his party. There cannot be any better opportune moment for him to stabilize the party. Can I expect that to happen? Of course not.

There are millions of pakistani living in UK, u can ask them also, or u have some problems with altaf hussain/or u want to see him killed in karachi?

 

[sparklingway]

Since the debate has degenerated into a virtual fist-fight, I'll post a very well-thought, and insightful post from Umair Javed.

Lowest Common Denominator: Ethnic Violence in Karachi​

The content of this post stems from a short twitter debate between me and Ahsan, of FiveRupees fame, on the reasons behind political violence in Karachi. There has been no evidence to suggest that this latest bout of blood-shed, which has escalated exponentially after the killing of MQM MPA Raza Haider, is any different from the larger phenomenon of targeted-killings, and intra-party violence that has tainted Karachi's history for the best part of 25 years. The fundamental reasons behind political violence in Karachi remain similar to those behind political violence across much of the third world (Modernization, heterogenous polity, weaponization etc.). However, the caveat in this case is that the level of violence, and it's subsequent regulation, is strongly contingent upon the limits, or lack thereof, imposed by state institutions.

In my opinion, at a historical time X, the Pakistani state did little (either through expediency or purposeful ignorance) to regulate political relationships in Karachi - hence allowing violence to become the most convenient form of conflict resolution.

Karachi's problems can be traced back to the migratory currents set in place by both the Green Revolution, and to a larger extent by the Afghan War of the 80's. The Green Revolution pushed a large amount of the lower peasantry off their lands (due to mechanization, rising input costs) and into urban centers across the country. While the brunt of this urbanization was borne by the smaller towns of Punjab (the mandi towns), a large number of the dispossessed and the generally destitute from KP (speficially from Swat and Hazara division) migrated to Karachi hoping to be absorbed by the growing agro-based industry sector. The re-settlement of labor was left in the hands of 'jobbers' or independent contractors who dealt with industry owners for the purpose of providing labor at low wages. The ethnic identity of the jobber was important in determining both job-attainment and space of residence. This laid the seeds for the ethnic segregation of living space in Karachi. Ethnic identities, however, competed with class affiliation as far as politicking was concerned. Kamran Asdar Ali's piece on the 70's labor movement shows that despite the presence of an ethnically segregated labor population, the collective consciousness of class was important in determining the nature of political contestation.

The turn-around came in the 80's when industry stagnated, jobs became scarce (and more skill-driven), and migrations from KP and the Tribal Areas increased as a fall-out of the Afghan War. This is what i label as the historical time X when the state (purposefully) ignored the trajectory of politics in Karachi. I hesitate before making claims such as 'ISI funded the MQM ' but to me the calculus looks quite simple. For a state, which had the task of following up on a nationalist/populist government, it's primary job was to quell opposition (whether it was the PPP or the NAP). Giving space to the MQM to flex itself was one such way. Secondly, by allowing gun-running for the purpose of fighting a jihad in Afghanistan and a subsequent insurgency in Kashmir, the state allowed large-scale weaponization of society to take place.

Imagine a scenario where there's one job. Two guys in contention. With the local security apparatus strongly 'ethnicized' as well, the odds of a gun being pulled out by someone, (and that someone could very well be a third-cousin of one of the job-hunters), are quite high. Same goes for all other economic and social resources. In the absence of effective state institutions, and by absence i mean the state giving preferential treatment to one group or the other, violence became the modus operandi. From there on, it's continuous usage can be seen as a path-dependent phenomenon. If it worked 25 years ago, it'll still work now. The political culture of Karachi has essentially become violent. The ballot box only goes so far in addressing turf-wars. The rest of the redressal is largely done by the barrel of a gun.

The secondary explanation is that politics in Pakistan remains a group phenomenon. Group solidarity rises out of both the alienating effects of an urban economy, or, the state fashioning an opportunity structure that is conducive to group solidarity. With segregated spaces, every citizen who requires access to the state or to economic resources will have a go-to guy. That go-to guy could be the local transporter (if you're Pashtun), or a unit leader (in the case of the MQM), or even the local Imam (if you're a Jamaatiya). Same way the local state official will also be a member of some ethnic group or the other. Raza Haider was probably the go-to-guy for a lot of other go-to-guys. These relationships might seem to be traditional or culturally determined, but in reality the background dynamics are largely shaped by the flow of the economy. A Pashtun does not, by definition, hate Muhajirs. He is simply competing in an increasingly exclusivist urban economy.

As Arif Hasan argues, political violence is an ethnic phenomenon determined to a great extent by the land market in Karachi. A classic case of resource scarcity (in this case land), weaponization, a politicized everyday state, and a fractured society.

Is there a way out of this? In my opinion, a national-level consensus on curbing political killings in Karachi is largely meaningless. It's the local state that plays the largest part in dictating the ebb and flow of violence. Thanks to nearly two decades of uninterrupted rule for the MQM, the everyday state is now strongly pro-Muhajir - a fact that generates insecurity in all other ethnic groups. If state institutions are unable to deal with the evolving nature of urbanization in Karachi, violence will continue to act as the lowest common denominator.

*for more on Karachi and violence please read Oskar Verkaaik's seminal book, Migrants and Militants: 'Fun' and Urban Violence in Pakistan

*for an anthro-panthro take on urban violence read this post of mine from a time when my writing was much more crude than it is now.

*for a take on identity politics read this post of mine where my writing is a lot better.
Posted by Umair J at 17:33 1 comments

 

[Hasnain2009]

Demanded operation in clear terms? Yes. Against whom? ANP.



The usual we-have-Pathan-members as well argument.

PS: That is what one of the few jobs that they do in Karachi.

looks lyk u are a big fan of ANP, this should b enough for u...

 

[sparklingway]

Bcoz of this press conference, MQM made comments against ANP soon after the death of Raza Haider, but now they are saying that Govt should start operation against drug dealers, ssp stc.

So if Shahi Syed does one diaster of a press conference and blames MQM for violence, it is justified for MQM to state that ANP murdered Reza Haider, regardless of any evidence?

I thought objectivity is of prime importance.

There are millions of pakistani living in UK, u can ask them also, or u have some problems with altaf hussain/or u want to see him killed in karachi?

Altaf Hussain runs a major political party. Millions of Pakistanis do not run parties in exile.

As for the second statement, I'd rather not comment. However do you think that it is a likely outcome? I seriously hope not.

 

[Hasnain2009]

So if Shahi Syed does one diaster of a press conference and blames MQM for violence, it is justified for MQM to state that ANP murdered Reza Haider, regardless of any evidence?

I thought objectivity is of prime importance.

ANP always blames MQM, its nothing new, but is this press conference, he threatened, and said that 40lac men can take revenge etc etc..
So one can directly put fingers on ANP.

Altaf Hussain runs a major political party. Millions of Pakistanis do not run parties in exile.

As for the second statement, I'd rather not comment. However do you think that it is a likely outcome? I seriously hope not.

Pro-MQM dont want him to come karachi in present situation, but 100% of anti-MQM want him to come karachi back and get killed.

 

[sparklingway]

ANP always blames MQM, its nothing new, but is this press conference, he threatened, and said that 40lac men can take revenge etc etc..
So one can directly put fingers on ANP.

Evidence is lacking.

Pro-MQM dont want him to come karachi in present situation, but 100% of anti-MQM want him to come karachi back and get killed.

Great. So the situation has been bad for 18 years including the best days MQM enjoyed b/w 2002 and 2007? Come on.

I hope you're sane enough to realize that arguing that A is not right does not mean that my argument is that B is right. But from what I've seen you're not acting in that mode.

ANP is as much to blame as MQM from what appears to be the situation. However, to raise fingers at a single party is moronic since the victims have been falling on both sides in what appears to be the epitome of rumour-fed urban violence.

But I'd repeat again, MQM should stop wishing and trying to assert the will to make Karachi a one-party state. Ethnic minorities and group politics in a weaponized city and turf-war urban area can never be dictated through singular narratives.

 

[Hasnain2009]

Evidence is lacking.

Great. So the situation has been bad for 18 years including the best days MQM enjoyed b/w 2002 and 2007? Come on.

What MQM had b/w 2002/2007?
Ministry of Interior? nooooo.....
So u cant put blame on MQM...since they dont have/had authority on law and order, and its pity that they have mandate...

I hope you're sane enough to realize that arguing that A is not right does not mean that my argument is that B is right.

ANP is as much to blame as MQM from what appears to be the situation. However, to raise fingers at a single party is moronic since the victims have been falling on both sides in what appears to be the epitome of rumour-fed urban violence.

But I;d repeat again, MQM should stop wishing and trying to assert the will to make Karachi a one-party state.

Ya Bodies are falling on both sides, thats the point, and who are killing those people?

The culprits lives in those areas where ANP has support, thats the main problems, ever been to karachi? Ever heard of Sohrab Goth, Saeed abad, orangi town etc etc?

I think before putting blame on MQM, people should also aknowledge that MQM is moving towards Punjab/other parts of pakistan, so why would they involve in these cheap tactics? Why would they restrict to karachi when they are trying to get support from other parts? Dont u think there is third element, which wants to see destabilize karachi, and wants fight between each other?

Can u tell me why would MQM destabilize karachi, when destabilizing it will only hurt MQM?

 

[sparklingway]

What MQM had b/w 2002/2007?
Ministry of Interior? nooooo.....
So u cant put blame on MQM...since they dont have/had authority on law and order, and its pity that they have mandate...

Pathetic argument. MQM ruled the roost with state support b/w those years. Altaf could have come back easily.

Ya Bodies are falling on both sides, thats the point, and who are killing those people?

People from both sides and opportunists.

The culprits lives in those areas where ANP has support, thats the main problems, ever been to karachi? Ever heard of Sohrab Goth, Saeed abad, orangi town etc etc?

Still no evidence to back up claims. I'll happily believe the entire account if some evidence is presented. My entire family lives in Karachi and I know the political landscape pretty well. No need to introduce me to the history of these burroughs and how they sprouted up and what goes on in there.

I think before putting blame on MQM, people should also aknowledge that MQM is moving towards Punjab/other parts of pakistan, so why would they involve in these cheap tactics? Why would they restrict to karachi when they are trying to get support from other parts? Dont u think their is third element, which wants to see destabilize karachi, and wants fight between each other?

MQM expansion has little to do with nationalist politics. The group based ethnic-class nature of politics is nothing I want to expound on right now. I never said they're restricting to Karachi but rather they've become narcissistic about their control (thanks to state support that has strengthened these claims) and want the entire city to be their political landscape, not to be shared with anyone. In a city of nearly 180 million people, that is a non-realistic goal. Inclusivist narratives do not work at big urban levels.

Can the third element be sectarians and militant organizations? Yes. Then why is MQM ruling that out even though MoI is staying that Reza Haider has been assassinated by sectarians and TTP have releases a statement in this regard.

I've never ruled out ANP but why do I have to believe that without evidence?

Also, where does the rant about PPP-supporting ANP fit your argument then?

And lastly, isn't Policing and calling Rangers maintaining law and order in Sindh the Provincial Government's job (with somewhat of an extending relationship with the Federal)? MQM being a part of both spheres should be strong enough to address these issues.

Can u tell me why would MQM destabilize karachi, when destabilizing it will only hurt MQM?

Did I say MQM wants to "destabilize karachi". Your words, not mine.

I'm not hypothesizing.

 

[Hasnain2009]

Pathetic argument. MQM ruled the roost with state support b/w those years. Altaf could have come back easily.

MQM had support from govt, but still they warned that govt 2 times, that they will leave govt.

People from both sides and opportunists.

Still no evidence to back up claims.

I'll happily believe the entire account if some evidence is presented. My entire family lives in Karachi and I know the political landscape pretty well. No need to introduce me to the history of these burroughs and how they sprouted up and what goes on in there.

U are taking active part in discusion and u said u know much abt karachi and ur family is in karachi, but still u dont know abt the Dozens of High Class commanders of Millitants, that were arrested from karachi, u dont know abt parralell ecnomy of talibans that runs from karachi.

I can help u....google link for u...

taliban arrested from karachi - Google Search

Is this not enough to start operation against those peoples?(not ANP)

MQM expansion has little to do with nationalist politics. The group based ethnic-class nature of politics is nothing I want to expound on right now. I never said they're restricting to Karachi but rather they've become narcissistic about their control (thanks to state support that has strengthened these claims) and want the entire city to be their political landscape, not to be shared with anyone. In a city of nearly 180 million people, that is a non-realistic goal.

Can the third element be sectarians and militant organizations? Yes. Then why is MQM ruling that out even though MoI is staying that Reza Haider has been assassinated by sectarians and TTP have releases a statement in this regard.

So when MQM ruled that out? Even in recent interviews, MQM leaders are asking govt to take actions against millitants, banned orgs, ssp etc.

Did I say MQM wants to "destabilize karachi". Your words, not mine.

U didnt said but 99.99% of anti-MQM people says that, any incident happens in karachi, then people starts bashing MQM.

U are saying again and again that MQM cant control city of 180mn pop, but dont u think with this huge pop, there are criminals/militants who kills people in karachi?

 

[sparklingway]

Last post from me

MQM had support from govt, but still they warned that govt 2 times, that they will leave govt.

Meh.

U are taking active part in discusion and u said u know much abt karachi and ur family is in karachi, but still u dont know abt the Dozens of High Class commanders of Millitants, that were arrested from karachi, u dont know abt parralell ecnomy of talibans that runs from karachi.

I can help u....google link for u...

taliban arrested from karachi - Google Search

Does this not suggest that the Sindh Police, especially the CID has been performing far better than their counterparts in Punjab and especially Lahore?

There's a lot of evidence of TTP financiers looting banks but MQM in its statements has not labeled any militant organizations or any terrorist organization specifically. The nature of those statements being ambiguous and sometimes direct is self explanatory.

Is this not enough to start operation against those peoples?(not ANP)

This statement summarizes:-

Qaimkhani said that the MQM had said time and again that the perpetrators belonged to the Awami National Party (ANP).

But I'll be objective and state this as well:-

“Everyone knows who is harbouring the Taliban, drug and land mafia in Karachi. It is time that an operation be launched and the culprits brought to task.”

Why the un-named mafias? Till when will this unknown mafia naming go on? Name the people who harbour them, name the people who are the mafia rulers, name the places where they are hiding.

Be clear about what you;re stating. For keen observers, the statements are clear in what they attempt to narrate.

So when MQM ruled that out? Even in recent interviews, MQM leaders are asking govt to take actions against millitants, banned orgs, ssp etc.

The whole country speaks of that. Not an exclusive group. Although I would state that MQM has the least love for sectarians and militants unlike PML(N).

U didnt said but 99.99% of anti-MQM people says that, any incident happens in karachi, then people starts bashing MQM.

Respond to me, not the general public.

Since you happen to harbour the narrative that a general perception need not always be wrong, think about why is the general perception along those lines.

U are saying again and again that MQM cant control city of 180mn pop, but dont u think with this huge pop, there are criminals/militants who kills people in karachi?

There are whole kidnapping-for-ransom gangs that operate from Hub, Tharparkar and other areas as well. Karachi being the hub of crime is not news.

I will maintain that MQM seems to want an entire city to be its political playground.

 

[iPhone]

No i cant do your work here, for that u will have to come here in karachi, and today i m very tired and sad, coz of lifting his dead body

Hmm, I have nothing against you. Come back to humanity, brother and tell your party to do the same if you can because nothing good will comwill come out of this violence.

 

[Hasnain2009]

Last post from me



Meh.


Does this not suggest that the Sindh Police, especially the CID has been performing far better than their counterparts in Punjab and especially Lahore?

There's a lot of evidence of TTP financiers looting banks but MQM in its statements has not labeled any militant organizations or any terrorist organization specifically. The nature of those statements being ambiguous and sometimes direct is self explanatory.



This statement summarizes:-



But I'll be objective and state this as well:-



Why the un-named mafias? Till when will this unknown mafia naming go on? Name the people who harbour them, name the people who are the mafia rulers, name the places where they are hiding.

Be clear about what you;re stating. For keen observers, the statements are clear in what they attempt to narrate.



The whole country speaks of that. Not an exclusive group. Although I would state that MQM has the least love for sectarians and militants unlike PML(N).



Respond to me, not the general public.

Since you happen to harbour the narrative that a general perception need not always be wrong, think about why is the general perception along those lines.


There are whole kidnapping-for-ransom gangs that operate from Hub, Tharparkar and other areas as well. Karachi being the hub of crime is not news.

I will maintain that MQM seems to want an entire city to be its political playground.

okay last post from me too....thnx for u time....
but plz watch this, at leash first 2mins.....so that u will know what is MQM saying now....

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