Mourn idea of India, but don’t forget that the idea of people is changing too

[jamahir]

You know, in UP, majority are either SC/ST or OBC. There is a reason they are called "Bahujan" meaning majority.

Yet I can quote this Wikipedia content for "Bhim Army" :

The organisation runs more than 350 free schools for Dalits and Bahujans in the districts of Saharanpur, Meerut, Shamli and Muzaffarnagar in western Uttar Pradesh.

And where was BJP's empathy when the Dalit student Rohith Vemula committed suicide in 2016 ? Has he been the subject of any BJP speech since ?

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

As I said earlier, Hinduism is not native to India. It is only a thousand or so years older than Islam in India.

Wrong. Hinduism easily traces its root to 1750 BCE and some of its traditions going back even eariler all the way back to Indus valley time.

In contrast, Islam is India came only in 650 CE even if you take claims of first mosque. The real "popularity" of Islam did not begin till 1200 AD or so when India suffered first Muslim attack.

Thats a difference of 3000 years of history in the region.

To put it in perspective, entire history of Christianity is 2000 year old. That of Islam is 1400 years old.

Whats also important is that Hinduism has been and is still the religion of majority in India. If Ireland can be a Catholic country with certainly less than 2000 years of history of Christianity, we Hindus are indeed a native and owners of India.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

And where was BJP's empathy when the Dalit student Rohith Vemula committed suicide in 2016 ? Has he been the subject of any BJP speech since ?

Does it matter? BJP is still reigning supreme after all that. Weak individuals often commit suicide. Its nothing new. No one gives a damn about such people irrespective of their castes.

 

[jamahir]

Hinduism easily traces its root to 1750 BCE and some of its traditions going back even eariler all the way back to Indus valley time.

3750 years ? Really ?

And there is no concrete proof of Indus Valley Civilization having anything to do with Hinduism. @Indus Pakistan, can you add to this or correct me ?

And there is no concrete proof of Hinduism otherwise too having Indian origin.

In contrast, Islam is India came only in 650 CE even if you take claims of first mosque. The real "popularity" of Islam did begin till 1200 AD or so

That is besides the point. I am not denying that Islam came to India from outside.

To put it in perspective, entire history of Christianity is 2000 year old. That of Islam is 1400 years old.

Again, that is besides the point.

 

[KurtisBrian]

As I said earlier, Hinduism is not native to India. It is only a 1500 or so years older than Islam in India.

3000+ years of Hinduism in India and India can still support huge amounts of life.

1400 years of Islam in North Africa and the Middle East and most things there are dead. The soil is dust. Nations of people cannot fed themselves.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

As I said earlier, Hinduism is not native to India. It is only a 1500 or so years older than Islam in India.

Wrong. Islam only has a history of 750 years in India, in earnest and it began with Islamic invasion of India in 1200 CE or so. Hinduism dates back to 1750 BCE AT least.

Plus the biggest point is simple : India is majority Hindu. About time Hindus kick this foreign invader out of our land.

 

[jamahir]

Does it matter? BJP is still reigning supreme after all that. Weak individuals often commit suicide. Its nothing new. No one gives a damn about such people irrespective of their castes.

So you don't want to lament the tragedy of 300,000+ Indian farmers who committed suicide between 1995 and 2015 for socio-economic reasons ?

That's not very humane of you.

On a related track I will quote the Wikipedia entry for Antilia, the 27-storey house for Mukesh Ambani's family of four :

Tata Group former chairman Ratan Tata said Antilia is an example of rich Indians' lack of empathy for the poor.Tata said, "The person who lives in there should be concerned about what he sees around him and asking can he make a difference. If he is not, then it's sad because this country needs people to allocate some of their enormous wealth to finding ways of mitigating the hardship that people have." "It makes me wonder why someone would do that. That's what revolutions are made of.

3000+ years of Hinduism in India and India can still support huge amounts of life.

1400 years of Islam in North Africa and the Middle East and most things there are dead. The soil is dust. Nations of people cannot fed themselves.

People in India die of hunger because they don't have money to buy food. There was the recent case of a migrant laborer woman who took ill on a train and died of hunger at a railway station.

All this while none of India's 35+ million stray dogs go hungry.

Don't you think Indian governments have misplaced priorities ?

 

[jamahir]

Plus the biggest point is simple : India is majority Hindu. About time Hindus kick this foreign invader out of our land.

Just to reply to your point : Hinduism itself is foreign to India so perhaps Hindus should take themselves out of India too. But I will say that there are many sensible Hindus in India too.

And I think it was to you who I said yesterday that you should ask Modi to stop saying "Sabka saath sabka vikas" and declare in the UNO that he wants to remove Muslims out of India. I would be interested in the reactions of world leaders.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

USSR existed for 69 years which is less than India's 70+ and USSR was a super-power in every sense.

A super power which accumulated tail risk by hiding all its rot. When it blows, it blows sky high. Risk of ruin is inherent in this Marxist, Communist philosophy of "Planned" economy.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

So you don't want to lament the tragedy of 300,000+ Indian farmers who committed suicide between 1995 and 2015 for socio-economic reasons ?

Was BJP ruling then? Was Modi in charge? Were Hindutva forces in power?

Noteworthy point, the recent Agri-bill fixes exactly that. Farmers do not need to sell their produce in APMC where they are given "Minimum" price -- which really becomes maximum possible. They can sell it in open market and get the market price for their produce. Do watch Shekhar Gupta's video that I linked to and start a separate thread.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

And I think it was to you who I said yesterday that you should ask Modi to stop saying "Sabka saath sabka vikas" and declare in the UNO that he wants to remove Muslims out of India. I would be interested in the reactions of world leaders.

Why should he? Did Tikka Khan did all before his "reformation" of Bengal?

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

That's not very humane of you.

I want a land for my people: Hindus. Being humane is besides the point.

Sure as hell Muslims were not humane while cleansing Bengal in 71. Many folks in this forum celebrate that "Military victory". Shall I find and link that post?

 

[jamahir]

Why should he? Did Tikka Khan did all before his "reformation" of Bengal?

Sure as hell Muslims were not humane while cleansing Bengal in 71.

Why are you constantly talking about 1971 ? You and I are from India, let's talk about India.

Was BJP ruling then? Was Modi in charge? Were Hindutva forces in power?

Ah, the magical rule of BJP from 2014 onward, from a thread just some days ago :

NEW DELHI: As many as 42,480 farmers and daily wagers committed suicide in 2019, an increase of about 6 per cent from the previous year, as the number of farmers committing suicide fell marginally while that of daily wagers increased 8 per cent.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

Why are you constantly talking about 1971 ? You and I are from India, let's talk about India.

Because Pakistan and B'desh are REAL references for India. This is what happens when Muslims of the subcontinent gain majority and power in a land. So, about time we make sure that such thing never happens in India. Nip the problem in the bud. About time we make India a Hindu land. A land exclusive for Hindus. A homeland for Hindus.

 

[KurtisBrian]

People in India die of hunger because they don't have money to buy food. There was the recent case of a migrant laborer woman who took ill on a train and died of hunger at a railway station.

All this while none of India's 35+ million stray dogs go hungry.

Don't you think Indian governments have misplaced priorities ?

No, it is not the Gov't it is the people. I have never been to India although I have met many Indians. I am certain India is an extremely competitive place, a "dog eat dog" society. Only so much to go around. Of course people push others down in an effort to rise or be on top, get a nice wife, home,...

food is a problem.
When Europe and Americans started to sell cheap food to Africa the population exploded. Africans still cannot feed themselves. Now what do the Africans do? Swarm into Europe. I don't have any sympathy for people in Europe because they are mostly descendents of invaders/migrants (thus no different then the modern migrants). History records how the Celts, Greeks, Romans, and Germanic nomadic cow herders, in turn, swarmed into tiny Europe. Those who don't have want to take from those who have. Provide for those who don't have and they make huge populations and invade. even further back we have the same thing happen in Ancient Egypt between Osiris and Ra.

I am not being paid to rule or fix the problem so I am not going to try to fix it.