Most Afghans want US troops

[Raja.Pakistani]

Afghanistan had no stability or peace with the Taliban in control.

Afghanistan/Iraq was even more unstable after invasion of America .US brought more death of innocent civilians who got trap between Taliban and NATO forces. Innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan are paying the price of your revenge. America and Britain and their freinds claim they are conducting their war on terror in Afghanistan. Yet still the terror attacks continue. In fact the resolve of those ordering the attacks seems to have got even stronger since the west took action.

America sees itself as the policeman of the world. It comes out with some high and mighty ideal of righting the wrongs all over the globe. Who are we to go round telling other people how we think they ought to live? The people of Afghanistan live in abject poverty. There is no doubt that they have been abused by the abhorrent Taliban. There is also no doubt that terrorist training camps have existed in the country. But when the Russians went in back in the 1970s, you were highly critical of their actions. That smacks of double standards.

Thomas its time to clean itself up before meddling in other countries affairs. Your government has always managed to abuse its power. Your government lends out huge amounts of money to other countries. They provide them with war weapons to war their enemies, who are viewed as the rebels or the bad side by your government. The aim of the west and its supporters in Afghanistan is to create a stable, western friendly democratic government. Is that possible? I believe you have seen in Iraq that you cannot impose democracy if the mindset is not there.

Afghanistan is one country for the record books, as being a nation strong enough to fight or ward off invaders. From the British Empire, to the Soviets, and lastly to the United States for invading this county have all endured great hardship, resulting in either immediate withdrawal or the heavy price of many casualties and then withdrawal .It seem you also give up in Afghanistan if we read this statement

Britain and the United States agree on the need to give top priority in the coming months to engaging Taliban insurgents in a peace process in Afghanistan, Prime Minister David Cameron said on Wednesday.

"Now is the moment to step up our efforts to reach a political settlement," Cameron said at a news conference with U.S. President Barack Obama.

"The Taliban must make a decisive split from al Qaeda, give up violence, and join a political process that will bring lasting peace to that country. We are agreed to give this the highest priority in the months ahead."

Cameron also said the West should redouble its efforts to work with Pakistan in seeking to stamp out terrorism.

Cameron urges Afghan Taliban to talk | Reuters

 

[mitth]

---------- Post added at 02:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------

[video]http://news.yahoo.com/karzai-adviser-most-afghans-want-us-troops-181136367.html[/video]

 

[Drawn_Sword_of_God]

When Taliban kills Americans/Afghans its the verdict of the people, When the TTP kills Pakistanis they become terrorist scumbags? Not biased at all eh?

A terrorist is a terrorist, be it in Afghanistan, Pakistan or India.

afghan taliban are killing invanders, TTP arent.
See the difference?

 

[Paan Singh]

afghan taliban are killing invanders, TTP arent.
See the difference?

see the title of the thread then see ur post....they contradict each other n tell who r invaders according to afghans..
i see some prosperity in a-stan during this occupation.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Prism: Title of thread don't represents all Afghans.These are probably non pashtuns Afghans who want invader to stay in their country for their welfare. Perhaps they think USA is doing charity work without getting any national interests for themselves.There was in news that Aghans believe US is funding talibans

Afghans believe US is funding Taliban
Intellectuals and respected Afghan professionals are convinced the west is prolonging conflict to maintain influence in the region

Afghans believe US is funding Taliban | Daniella Peled | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

 

[Drawn_Sword_of_God]

see the title of the thread then see ur post....they contradict each other n tell who r invaders according to afghans..
i see some prosperity in a-stan during this occupation.

see what my reply was for.
there is a huge difference between the taliban in pakistan and the taliban in afghanistan.

 

[roadrunner]

and the pashtun elite having done so? they are more responsible that us.

Pashtun times are remembered as the most stable (King Zahir). tajik regimes just cause civil war because they cannot control anything.

If you are talking about the 1990s civil war and afterwards until 2003 then i should say, we all did commit crimes against each other-non of us were innocent, we tajiks did commit crimes, pashtuns committed, hazaras, uzbkes and anybody who had gun did commit horrible crime, when i claim the injustice of pashutns agaisn us in terms of long terms history, is up until the point of soviets invasion, sadly either you dont know about it or just want to ignore these facts, even nowdays the pashuns systematically invade our villages, ivade our culutre, while we have no power to stop them. And dont forget that it is the same pashtun nationalism which HAS ALWAYS TRIED TO TAKE YOUR PART OF COUNTRY(FATA AND NWFP) FROM YOU, but sadly you have tried to put an innocent face on it if they discriminated against us and rubbish them if they wanted to break your country.

its funny you claiming in all your previous posts that you were brutalized by pashtuns, and now are saying that errr.. well, tajiks also do their share of brutalizing. let's not forget the hazara and every other ethnic group in afghanistan that is not innocent in this. using this to claim pashtuns are the oppressors clearly is a lie then. the tajiks have done their share of brutalizing as have the hazara (who would forget the mongol empire).

the tajiks

That is the argument and a valid one, he didnt sign the cease fire to gain control, he was already the only capable and powerful commondar in north, it was common occurance that hekmatyar had stopped his supply lines, he had to do something about it, and it was pefect opportuity for the soviets as well to have some space, cease fires and things like this happens in wars, and by the way, Masoud hiself categorically denied any suggestions that the soviets wanted to recognize his power in return he had kept his infulence, here is his video which is very old, it is in a local farsi accent, not sure if you understrand it, he categorically denied all these points:

nothing about ceasefires or hekmatyar vutting his supply lines. hekmatyar was in the east, massoud in the north. massoud just wanted to weaken the pashtun resistance so that after the war was over he could take over afghanistan (he did for a bit).

the soviet generals mentioned something about the war being over in weeks if it were not for massoud's help.

what else would you expect him to say in the video? that he fought the soviets and did no deal with them? it's all written in gromov's book.

so, thier leaders are not representative and ours are? Najib was not people's man, yes, but other guys such as sayaf, qadir brothers, malik zarin, qari baba and man more were local powerful tribal leaders, they represented either their villages or tribes. i cnat understand how you suggest he had support amng tajiks, while he himself upto to his end days favouring pashuns over non pashtuns, that is how dostum had enough of it and turnd his guns against him.

local leaders are irrelevant. the would have to align with the major warlords.

 

[n4j1b]

The fact of the matter is that Afghanistan is being invaded and Pakistan is helping with that invasion. There are two possibilities for the aftermath of this invasion. One, Afghanistan will be subjugated to the demands of these invaders and their servants, and its people will be left in poverty with corrupt politicians who will work for their respective masters. And two, the people of Afghanistan find a way and rise from their current state and become a more independent nation, which could take years if not decades.

The point is that the world is interested in this region. It's not just USA, it's about 40 countries who have sent their military. The war is not about Taliban or Al Qaeda. That is just an excuse and I am not sure whether they even exist or not. The reason that the west has come to Afghanistan is because of its strategic location. They're currently building a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan and India. There are many other projects such as this that could link these countries in the region. If USA and its western allies have control over the Afghan government then they can control the region and even the whole Asia. Like the famous Pakistani poet Allama Iqbal said: "Asia is a body of land and water.......Afghan nation represents the heart in that body -- From its prosperity is prosperity of Asia.... From its corruption is the corruption of Asia"

The great game might be over with Soviet Union defeated, but the importance of Afghanistan still remains for the other side to grab and that is what I think they are after. Let us see what will happen. BTW the TAPI gas pipeline is planned to be completed by 2014, the year United States says it will withdraw its troops, but we all know that they will continue to have their presence in the country including a puppet government.

So what do you think will happen to the future of Afghanistan. Please swallow your undue prides and talk realistically. I want to hear your views! Thanks.

 

[Ahmad]

Pashtun times are remembered as the most stable (King Zahir). tajik regimes just cause civil war because they cannot control anything.

And that followed by a huge destabilization because of injustice against everybody, and the foreigners took advantage of it, Pakistan built nuckes in 45 years and he in his 40 years of time didnt manage to extend electricity beyond kabul, we non pashtuns were not allowed in the army especially hazaras and uzbeks, only tajiks had been given the ranks of low level soldiers and low level posts in the gov and that was because the tajiks have the highest literacy rate in afghanistan and they are also skilled peo;le compare to the others. Tajik regime what you calla it was not a regine but there was civil war with no gov. By the way, i am glad that Pakistanis have also tasted the taste of Pashtun Zahir Shah by NOT RECOGNIZING YOUR COUNTRY'S INDEPEDNCE.

its funny you claiming in all your previous posts that you were brutalized by pashtuns, and now are saying that errr.. well, tajiks also do their share of brutalizing. let's not forget the hazara and every other ethnic group in afghanistan that is not innocent in this. using this to claim pashtuns are the oppressors clearly is a lie then. the tajiks have done their share of brutalizing as have the hazara (who would forget the mongol empire).

Tell me when did the Tajiks discriminated against the Pashtuns in its long history? As pre mongols, they were foreign invaders, not the natives, as per hazaras they are different, they might have a mixture of turkic and mongol blood, but they are now citizens of afghanistan. SEcondly, those mongols didnt do a thing agaisnt the pashtuns as pashtuns in those days were irrelevant because of their low number as well as their isolation due to their tribal life., all the burdon of resistence and losses were on the Tajiks.

nothing about ceasefires or hekmatyar vutting his supply lines. hekmatyar was in the east, massoud in the north. massoud just wanted to weaken the pashtun resistance so that after the war was over he could take over afghanistan (he did for a bit). the soviet generals mentioned something about the war being over in weeks if it were not for massoud's help.

what else would you expect him to say in the video? that he fought the soviets and did no deal with them? it's all written in gromov's book.

Masould's supply was totally blocked by hekmatyar's territoty. on the east of Panjshir there was Laghman which was under influence of hekmatyar, on the south and south east there was districts of Tagab, and kohistan which was controlled by Famous Abdul Saboor Fareed, he had comptely blocked flow of supply to panjshire, fuerther south towards kabul was again the districts of Qara Bagh and somehow other villages loyal to hekmatyar blocking the supplies.

local leaders are irrelevant. the would have to align with the major warlords.

you have got no idea, in afghanistan the local guys pull all the strings, secondly, people like sayaf, Gilani family who has totally deep religious root among the pashtuns of south, Sebghatullah mujadidi and other pashtun leaders were not only the local leaders, but they were also the leaders of their parties which had influece in many partrs of the country.

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------

see what my reply was for.
there is a huge difference between the taliban in pakistan and the taliban in afghanistan.

may i ask what is the difference.

 

[great]

May be Afghanistan would turn out to be a new Japan. Let US have a base there in exchange for preferred trade deal.

 

[Hussein]

@Ahmad: It seems you are a correct person to provide more insights to different thoughts to the ground reality in AFGANISTAN.
Why dont you present some of the thoughts from a Afgan perspective. Because I hardly find any genuine voice to get the ground reality of Afganistan. We always here from US Media,Indian media or Pak Media from their own perspective...

i totally agree

i have friends in Iran from Afghanistan, i went there once by the way
all are pashtuns and have posters of masoud in their places
you know how sad they are when it is the anniversary of masoud death
and they say very similar points than Ahmad

you know Ahmad... there are a lot of misinformation outside tyour country even in Iran by the way
some people say here to be specialists of your country but say so bullshit
they often focus on ethnic division , pashtunistan unification , tadjik fighting agaisnt the pashtuns as talibans
my friends most of them did fight the talibans or their father
a very dear friend even said me this that it would not please pakistanis but i say what he is saying (it doesn't involve what i personnaly think , i have little knowledge on this matter):
"talibans were foreigners supported by pakistani agents"
he considered himself the pakistani pashtuns being much different than themselves and even those who came back after a while who were afghans
he reminds me often that in history the pashtuns were fighting more each other than the other ethnic groups
i would like your advice about these words if you can

 

[roadrunner]

And that followed by a huge destabilization because of injustice against everybody, and the foreigners took advantage of it,

You dont seem to know any Afghan history.

The post king destabilization was caused by various groups, including the Communist factions staging coups for the presidency.

The people were unhappy with the Communist government (Khalq but also Parcham). This caused an uprising and led to the Communist government signing the Soviet-Afghan treaty that allowed the Soviets into Afghanistan.

The people were not unhappy with the King's 40 year rule. His period in power is widely recognized as peaceful. Lying about this makes you seem ignorant on the subject.

 

[roadrunner]

Pakistan built nuckes in 45 years and he in his 40 years of time didnt manage to extend electricity beyond kabul,

Afghanistan was progressed fairly well until the 1970s (for a developing country).

"From the 1930s to the 1970s, Afghanistan had a semblance of a national government and Kabul was known as “the Paris of Central Asia.”
When Afghanistan was “the Paris of Central Asia” « Asian Window

You still want to deny that the period under the King were Afghanistan's only recent period of prosperity?

we non pashtuns were not allowed in the army especially hazaras and uzbeks, only tajiks had been given the ranks of low level soldiers and low level posts in the gov and that was because the tajiks have the highest literacy rate in afghanistan and they are also skilled peo;le compare to the others. Tajik regime what you calla it was not a regine but there was civil war with no gov. By the way, i am glad that Pakistanis have also tasted the taste of Pashtun Zahir Shah by NOT RECOGNIZING YOUR COUNTRY'S INDEPEDNCE.

The Ghilzais predominated in the 1960s afghan national army in fact. this was because the Ghilzais are 20% of the Afghan population, Pashtuns around 50% so they should be a majority in the Afghan Army. or are you anti-democracy?

that the tajiks had a higher literacy rate than pashtuns is proof they were not discriminated against in 1960s afghanistan. with higher literacy comes less army recruitment since people are less willing to fight. that would be another reason along with the ghilzais being probably a lot more martial in character than most other people.

so youre again flinging the accusation of discrimination but not proving it. it is possible to prove anti pashtun discrimination by looking at any figures in afghanistan. currently tajiks are overrepresented even though they are a minority.

Tell me when did the Tajiks discriminated against the Pashtuns in its long history?

one needs only look at the afghanistan now to see evidence of tajik discrimination, from the army to the government.

prior to the present period the pashtuns were in power since they are the majority and the country is named Afghanistan not Tajikistan.

As pre mongols, they were foreign invaders, not the natives, as per hazaras they are different, they might have a mixture of turkic and mongol blood, but they are now citizens of afghanistan. SEcondly, those mongols didnt do a thing agaisnt the pashtuns as pashtuns in those days were irrelevant because of their low number as well as their isolation due to their tribal life., all the burdon of resistence and losses were on the Tajiks.

history lesson needed here.

mongols entered southwest asia in 1200 AD. The pashtuns didnt just drop from the sky sometime after 1200 AD in real history.

its not like the indian claim to pakistani history (pakistanis appeared from nowhere in 1947).

the pashtuns certainly were a migrant group but undoutedly have been in the Afghan region for well over 2000 years.

Masould's supply was totally blocked by hekmatyar's territoty. on the east of Panjshir there was Laghman which was under influence of hekmatyar, on the south and south east there was districts of Tagab, and kohistan which was controlled by Famous Abdul Saboor Fareed, he had comptely blocked flow of supply to panjshire, fuerther south towards kabul was again the districts of Qara Bagh and somehow other villages loyal to hekmatyar blocking the supplies.

if massoud was a traitor that kept letting soviet columns through to allow fighting into the areas of eastern afghanistan then its no surprise that massoud was viewed as a target by the afghan militias that resisted the soviets without compromise. however supplying massoud was never a problem. he had enough weaponry to overrun andarab.

 

[roadrunner]

Are you like 5 years old or something?? or just like talking out of your A$$..

ps if you want to stay on the forum youd better take some of that advice (or post something sensible).

 

[Sher Malang]

i totally agree

i have friends in Iran from Afghanistan, i went there once by the way
all are pashtuns and have posters of masoud in their places
you know how sad they are when it is the anniversary of masoud death
and they say very similar points than Ahmad

you know Ahmad... there are a lot of misinformation outside tyour country even in Iran by the way
some people say here to be specialists of your country but say so bullshit
they often focus on ethnic division , pashtunistan unification , tadjik fighting agaisnt the pashtuns as talibans
my friends most of them did fight the talibans or their father
a very dear friend even said me this that it would not please pakistanis but i say what he is saying (it doesn't involve what i personnaly think , i have little knowledge on this matter):
"talibans were foreigners supported by pakistani agents"
he considered himself the pakistani pashtuns being much different than themselves and even those who came back after a while who were afghans
he reminds me often that in history the pashtuns were fighting more each other than the other ethnic groups
i would like your advice about these words if you can

People of Nengarhar, Laghman, Kunar, Khost, Wardag loves him, you can even find Massoud's photos in their homes and cars. The outsiders have sown the seed of disunity among us.