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Most Afghans want US troops

What does "in a way" mean? USA helped these people oust the USSR by helping them with money and weapons. It went back when the joint purpose was achieved. It never took their responsibility for a lifetime!

What they do after the honeymoon was over and the common goal was achieved is their own responsibility.

Also, some of the Taliban leaders may be the same but the bulk of the rank and file came from Madressas in Pakistan's tribal areas and many of them had never fought with the USSR.

It was Pakistan that created Taliban, that supplied and supported Taliban and that even sent its military officers with them. This is all well documented.

Again, you don't even have your facts right. Pakistan did not create the Taliban, this has been mentioned by even Ahmed Rashid in his famous book "Descent into Chaos". The top Taliban leadership have even categorically stated that the Pakistani ISI or Pakistan did NOT form the Taliban, in the public Western media on Charlie Rose:


The Taliban have explicitly denied being Pakistan's puppets, or even being aided by Pakistan.

Other corrections in your post: most of the top brass of the Taliban & the other terror groups in the region were part of the Mujahideen, where they were strengthened by the US money & weapons, & they used these to form their own groups in the 90s. So the US is exactly responsible for all the things today.

The responsibility to guard your own borders is yours, not NATO's or USA's. They have a limited force from a great distance.

It is the US/NATO Forces/ANA's responsibility to make sure they tackle the safe havens in Afghanistan where terrorists get refuge, & attack Pakistan's tribal areas with impunity. It is the US/NATO Forces/ANA's responsibility to make sure that no cross border infiltration happens from their end.

The ANA is pretty week and can't control that "porous border" but yours is a million plus force on it's own territory. You don't have an excuse.

Other wrong things in your post: you don't even know that the ANA has been strengthened immensely by the US money, they've spent billions & billions of dollars on them to build them the ANA; & they've even evacuated certain regions, giving the ANA & the ANP the responsibility to administer these areas.
 
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And you guys fail to mention that Saudis matched the USA dollar for dollar in supporting the Afghan rebels.

China was also a major supporter.

Yet you chose to blame only the USA? Not your Islaimic brothers and your higher and deeper allies?
 
Again, you don't even have your facts right. Pakistan did not create the Taliban, this has been mentioned by even Ahmed Rashid in his famous book "Descent into Chaos". The top Taliban leadership have even categorically stated that the Pakistani ISI or Pakistan did NOT form the Taliban, in the public Western media on Charlie Rose:


The Taliban have explicitly denied being Pakistan's puppets, or even being aided by Pakistan.

Other corrections in your post: most of the top brass of the Taliban & the other terror groups in the region were part of the Mujahideen, where they were strengthened by the US money & weapons, & they used these to form their own groups in the 90s. So the US is exactly responsible for all the things today.

OK, let me help you here.

Taliban

Taliban

The Taliban ("the Seekers") was formed in September of 1994 in the southern Afghan province of Kandahar by a group of graduates of Pakistani Islamic colleges (madrassas) on the border with Afghanistan, run by the fundamentalist Jamiat-e-Ulema. The members of the Taleban Islamic Movement of Afghanistan (TIMA) are mostly Pashtuns from Kandahar in Southern Afghanistan and are led by a mullah (a village-level religious leader), Mohammad Omar. The Taleban advocated an 'Islamic Revolution' in Afghanistan, proclaiming that the unity of Afghanistan should be re-established in the framework of Sharia (Islamic law) and without the mujahedin. Their fighting ranks were mostly filled with former veterans of the war against Soviet forces.

On 11 September 1996 the Taleban captured Jalalabad, the eastern city bordering Pakistan and on 27 September 1996 they captured Kabul, ousting the government. They took former President Najibullah and his brother from a UN compound where they had taken refuge since the fall of his Soviet-backed governmentin April 1992, beat them severely and then hanged them from lamposts in the city center. As of the beginning of June 1997, the Taleban effectively controled two-thirds of the country.

The Taleban applied a strict interpretation of Sharia, enforcement of which is administered by the "Department for Promoting Virtue and Preventing Vice" [patterned after an agency of the same name in Saudi Arabia]. In Kabul soldiers searched homes for evidence of cooperation with the former authorities or for violations of Taleban religious-based decrees, including depictions of living things (photographs, stuffed toys, etc.) Individuals were beaten on the streets by Taleban militia for what were deemed infractions of Taliban rules concerning dress, hair length, and facial hair, as well as for restriction on women being in the company of men. The Taleban required women to wear strict Islamic garb in public, and Taleban gender restrictions interfered with the delivery of humanitarian and medical assistance to women and girls. According to regulations, a man who has shaved or cut his beard may be imprisoned until his beard grows back. Beards must protrude farther than would a fist clamped at the base of the chin.

The country was effectively partitioned between areas controlled by Pashtun and non-Pashtun forces, as the Taleban now controlled all the predominantly Pashtun areas of the country (as well as Herat and Kabul), while non-Pashtun organizations controlled the areas bordering on the Central Asian republics whose populations are ethnically non-Pashtun, such as Uzbeks and Tajiks. Reconstruction continued in Herat, Kandahar, and Ghazni, areas which were under firm Taliban control.

In October 1997 the Taliban changed the name of the country to the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, with Mullah Omar, who had previously assumed the religious title of Emir of the Faithful, as head of state. There was a six-member ruling council in Kabul but ultimate authority for Taliban rule rested in the Taliban's inner Shura (Council), located in the southern city of Kandahar, and in Mullah Omar.

External Support

Pakistan had long sought to gain some influence over a neighbor with whom it shared a long and exceedingly porous border. The Taleban were initially trained by the Frontier Constabulary, a para-military force of the Interior Ministry of Pakistan, which at the time was headed by Gen. Nasrullah Babar. The Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) were not involved in the earlier stages of Taleban development, continuing to support the Hizb-i-Islami under Hikmatyar to dislodge the Rabbani government. Pakistan feared that an exclusively non-Pashtun government of President B. Rabbani would lead Afghanistan's Pashtuns to revive the demand for Pashtunistan. Eventually, the remarkable success of the Taleban, and economic considerations, led to Pakistan's policy change in 1994-95 towards its support for the Taleban.

As Iran started signing joint ventures with Central Asian countries, Pakistan hoped that the Taleban would restore order and reopen roads, and provide it with the opportunity to expand markets to Central Asia. Even before the Taleban's victorious drive on Kabul, the ousted Afghan government had long insisted that the Taleban were actively backed by Pakistan's ISI and by some members of the Pakistan's powerful military. Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto has denied any involvement, but in late September 1996, Naseerullah Babar, Pakistan's Interior Minister, flew to Afghanistan to work out a settlement between the Taleban and the most powerful of the Afghan warlords. The ISI, for years the agent of Pakistan's Afghan policy, also was believed to have helped the Taleban logistically and advised them on strategy. ISI has links with Pakistani religious parties that provide volunteers for jihad in both Kashmir and Afghanistan.
Post 9/11

In October 2001, in response to the Taliban regime's protection of al Qaeda terrorists who attacked the United States, coalition forces forcibly removed the regime from Afghanistan.

Since the Taliban's ouster in late 2001, remnants of the regime have sheltered in remote reaches of Afghanistan's mountains, mainly in the south. While they stood little chance of retaking power while the US-led coalition remains in Afghanistan, rogue Taliban members appeared to be regrouping.

Evidence mounted by early 2003 in the southern regions of Afghanistan that the Taliban was reorganizing and has found an ally in rebel commander Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, labeled a terrorist and hunted by US troops," the Associated Press reported in early April. The evidence included the discovery by coalition forces of around 60 Taliban fighters holed up near the village of Sikai Lashki, 25 miles north of the southeastern village of Spinboldak. Further indication came from the killings in southern Afghanistan of a Red Cross worker and, separately, of two U.S. troops in an ambush, as well as allegations that Taliban leaders had found safe havens in private homes in neighboring Pakistan's Quetta province.

While no reliable estimates existed of the number of Taliban fighters in southern Afghanistan, the Associated Press said in late March that it is believed that "many" Taliban are holed up in the southern mountains.

While a multinational force helped keep the peace in Kabul and surrounding areas, contributing countries have declined to extend the force's mandate to other parts of the country. Remnants of the Taliban and rogue warlords sometimes threatened, robbed, attacked, and occasionally killed local villagers, political opponents, and prisoners.

Read it very carefully. It describes accurately how Taliban was created. It had nothing to do with USA at all.

You may want to put the blame all the way to the apple eaten by Eve but it doesn't change the reality.

It is the US/NATO Forces/ANA's responsibility to make sure they tackle the safe havens in Afghanistan where terrorists get refuge, & attack Pakistan's tribal areas with impunity. It is the US/NATO Forces/ANA's responsibility to make sure that no cross border infiltration happens from their end.

And why is it not your responsibility to save your own borders?

Other wrong things in your post: you don't even know that the ANA has been strengthened immensely by the US money, they've spent billions & billions of dollars on them to build them the ANA; & they've even evacuated certain regions, giving the ANA & the ANP the responsibility to administer these areas.

It is you guys who keep making fun of the ANA every day. It is still a mostly ill disciplined force with limited capacity and competence.
 
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OK, let me help you here.

Taliban



Read it very carefully. It describes accurately how Taliban was created. It had nothing to do with USA at all.

You may want to put the blame all the way to the apple eaten by Eve but it doesn't change the reality.



And why is it not your responsibility to save your own borders?



It is you guys who keep making fun of the ANA every day. It is still a mostly ill disciplined force with limited capacity and competence.

Where did the money, arms for the Taliban come from? How did Mullah Umar & all the other leaders get strengthened during the Mujahideen period?

Let me quote you a piece of that same article you pasted:

The Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) were not involved in the earlier stages of Taleban development, continuing to support the Hizb-i-Islami under Hikmatyar to dislodge the Rabbani government.

So, where did Pakistan form the Taliban?
 
Where did the money, arms for the Taliban come from? How did Mullah Umar & all the other leaders get strengthened during the Mujahideen period?

The whole region was floating in arms, a legacy of the Afghan war. The Afghans never got rid of the weapons and turned on each other after the USSR and USA (and China and Saudis as well) left the scene.

Let me quote you a piece of that same article you pasted:

So, where did Pakistan form the Taliban?

In your great hurry to continue being in denial, you forgot to read the line just before this one.

The Taleban were initially trained by the Frontier Constabulary, a para-military force of the Interior Ministry of Pakistan, which at the time was headed by Gen. Nasrullah Babar.

And

The ISI, for years the agent of Pakistan's Afghan policy, also was believed to have helped the Taleban logistically and advised them on strategy. ISI has links with Pakistani religious parties that provide volunteers for jihad in both Kashmir and Afghanistan.
 
The whole region was floating in arms, a legacy of the Afghan war. The Afghans never got rid of the weapons and turned on each other after the USSR and USA (and China and Saudis as well) left the scene.



The Taleban were initially trained by the Frontier Constabulary, a para-military force of the Interior Ministry of Pakistan, which at the time was headed by Gen. Nasrullah Babar.

You clearly don't understand the difference between forming/developing/creating a group, & training it. Learn the difference & then talk. It's simple English. I'm asking you, where did Pakistan create the Taliban like you previously alleged?
 
You clearly don't understand the difference between forming/developing/creating a group, & training it. Learn the difference & then talk. It's simple English. I'm asking you, where did Pakistan create the Taliban like you previously alleged?

Trying to play with semantics now. ;)

Good, I welcome this change. Read that article again now and see how and when Taliban was formed, did it have anything to do with the USA (as you have been alleging without basis) or the "Mujahideen".

So again, was it the USA that created the Taliban as you alleged? Was the Taliban created for the USA? Who was responsible for it and who continues to be responsible for all its deeds, the treatment of women, the blowing up of girl schools, markets full of civilians, beheadings, genocides of Hazaraas and other non Pushtuns....

Was it the USA that is to blame for it all? Or some other kaffirs but never the faithful.

Even though Taliban swears that it does everything in the name of Islam!
 
Guys the thread is about afghans wanting americans to stay in afghanistan in my opinion this is simply untrue
 
slowly but surly afganistan will become a major power in the region with there own military for there own interest.
Pakistan better be in good terms with the new afganistan as it cannot support 2 fronts.
 
Trying to play with semantics now. ;)

Good, I welcome this change. Read that article again now and see how and when Taliban was formed, did it have anything to do with the USA (as you have been alleging without basis) or the "Mujahideen".

So again, was it the USA that created the Taliban as you alleged? Was the Taliban created for the USA? Who was responsible for it and who continues to be responsible for all its deeds, the treatment of women, the blowing up of girl schools, markets full of civilians, beheadings, genocides of Hazaraas and other non Pushtuns....

Was it the USA that is to blame for it all? Or some other kaffirs but never the faithful.

Even though Taliban swears that it does everything in the name of Islam!

I said the US was responsible for the creation of the Taliban, not that it created the Taliban. Of course it didn't. Learn the difference ;)

I'm still waiting for the proof that Pakistan created the Taliban.
 
The Taliban is killing an armed combatant.
TTP is killing civilians going about their daily life.

If you cannot see the obvious different, you sir need to check your eyes!

Take a moment and think about the bolded part. Are you sure about that?
 
I said the US was responsible for the creation of the Taliban, not that it created the Taliban. Of course it didn't. Learn the difference ;)

I'm still waiting for the proof that Pakistan created the Taliban.

So how was the USA responsible for the creation when it was formed several years after the USA had left? It was formed in the Madressas of your tribal areas, trained by Pakistani forces, guided by PA officials.

Taliban is a Pakistani creation for all practical purposes.

And I am not interested in playing the semantic game. Like always your denial and lack of facts have been exposed and you are left trying to salvage it by playing a silly semantic game of creating versus training.
 
So how was the USA responsible for the creation when it was formed several years after the USA had left?

I told you, all the top leadership of the Taliban were strengthened when the US funded & armed the Mujahideen, which they were an active part of. I never said that the US created the Taliban.

Taliban is a Pakistani creation for all practical purposes.

Again, you haven't given me any proof that Pakistan created the Taliban. Even the article you posted contradicts your speculated claim. Just admit it, you have no clue what you are talking about, just like you think the ANA is a weak force.
 
I said the US was responsible for the creation of the Taliban, not that it created the Taliban. Of course it didn't. Learn the difference ;)

I'm still waiting for the proof that Pakistan created the Taliban.

Kindly make a list of proof that would be acceptable for you. Anything kind of proof is considered frivolous.

The Taliban is Pakistan and USA baby that you nurtured and raised. Now it is trying to kick you out from your own house.
 
I told you, all the top leadership of the Taliban were strengthened when the US funded & armed the Mujahideen, which they were an active part of. I never said that the US created the Taliban.

The Taliban was also strengthened when the midwives helped with their birth process. ;)

How far back do you want to go? All the way to the apple of the Eve's garden?

Again, you haven't given me any proof that Pakistan created the Taliban. Even the article you posted contradicts your speculated claim. Just admit it, you have no clue what you are talking about, just like you think the ANA is a weak force.

Leave this silly attempt already. I have already explained why Taliban is a Pakistani creation for all practical purposes.
 

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