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Moscow raises price of defence deals with India

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Moscow raises price of defence deals with India

* Price hike likely to delay delivery of an aircraft carrier
* Indian air force to participate in multinational war games in the US

NEW DELHI: India’s newfound bonhomie with the United States has not gone well with its old friend Russia. Moscow is conveying its displeasure by hiking the price of already delayed defence deals with India. It has not only increased the annual escalation cost of weapon system from 2.55 percent to 5 percent, it is also demanding an additional $1.2 billion to deliver the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov.

Observers here say the annual escalation costs would hit Indian defence industry badly. They say it would mean a substantial amount for Moscow, on the other hand, given that an estimated $15 billion worth of defence contracts are in the pipeline. Defence Minister AK Antony, during his visit to Moscow last month, had raised the issue of Gorshkov with his Russian counterpart Anatoly Serdyukov.

Both sides have formed two committees, one comprising officials of the two defence ministries and the other comprising officers of the two navies, to resolve issues. The Russians are believed to have raised the price-hike issue at the first meeting of the defence ministries committee.

Delay in delivery: The aircraft carrier would originally have cost $974 million and was due to be delivered in late 2007 or early 2008. This was then delayed to 2010-11. With the latest development, the delivery is likely to be delayed even further.

“An Indian team had visited Moscow [earlier this month] for preliminary negotiations. These discussions will now be continued on an urgent basis when a Russian team arrives here,” an Indian official said.

After protracted negotiations, India signed a deal with Russia on January 20, 2004 to buy the Gorshkov, along with 12 single-seat MiG-29 fighters and four twin-seat MiG-29 trainers. Of the contracted amount, approximately $974 million was to be spent on upgrading and re-fitting the aircraft carrier and $526 million on the MiG-29 jets and six Kamov Ka-31 attack and reconnaissance anti-submarine helicopters. India has already paid $458 million for this aircraft.

The delay in refurbishing the carrier has been attributed to two developments at the Russian shipyard where this is being undertaken.

The first was the realisation that the work involved in refurbishment had been grossly underestimated and much more would be required before the ship was made seaworthy.

The second was that the shipyard had transferred the bulk of the workforce engaged on the carrier to a new nuclear-powered submarine it had begun constructing.

The Gorshkov, earlier called the Baku, was the last of four Soviet carriers built at the height of the Cold War and became operational in 1986. However, the ship’s career was cut short when a devastating fire crippled the vessel in 1994. Although repaired, Gorshkov never saw operational service in the Russian Navy and was finally mothballed in 1996.

Multinational war games: AK Antony said on Monday the Indian Air Force would for the first time take part in multinational aerial war games in the United States.

The approval came despite stiff opposition from communist parties to India’s participation in the annual event, codenamed “Red Flag”. iftikhar gilani/agencies

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
It seems the Russians are playing the Indians.

This is to be expected More indians move towards Uncle sam more make uncle putin gets Angry. lets see how the indians menage to walk on this tight Rope.
 
Russians have so far produced great number of grand chess masters.

So here it is on international arena, you can see impact of a nation who have excelled in Mathematics and Chess. I m simply loving the moves of Putin playing Indians. And he knows well, Indians cant do much to save themselves from it. As US and Indian economy goes hand and glove. On the other hand Indians cannot be independent off Russian weapons.
 
Russians have so far produced great number of grand chess masters.

So here it is on international arena, you can see impact of a nation who have excelled in Mathematics and Chess. I m simply loving the moves of Putin playing Indians. And he knows well, Indians cant do much to save themselves from it. As US and Indian economy goes hand and glove. On the other hand Indians cannot be independent off Russian weapons.

PS the current Chess champion is an Indian, Chess was invented in India and some of the top mathematicians have been Indians + Indians are some of the finest doctors and engineers you will see them finding a way out, by your logic then...:yahoo:

anyways the likely scenario will be..

India will rely on Russia for the bulk of foreign purchases... prefabricated products to save on time, cost etc..

INcreasingly adopt the Joint production route with Russia and possibly Israel.. and or go for domestic indigenous production.for most mainstream products...

All US products that they buy will be Israeli upgrades(IMO better than stock American) ie India will deal with Israel instead of US and mostly buy specialised products such as avionics, radars etc.. which are not hit much by sanctions or blockades or require many spare parts... and I feel have a significant edge because of the role they play and the tech they possess as compared to the Russian products..


Further Indian defence Industry is coming of age though I feel without increasing private participation and foreign collabration they will take time to set the bar in technology for others to follow

This will make Russia happy as India is not dealing with US at least directly..
and it is still the majority supplier

Israel happy.. no brainer

India happy... no threat of sanctions, better products

US happy... to a degree at least they are selling something

India will indeed make a big fault if it replaces Russia with US as the major defence supplier... rather diplomatically and tactfully reduce the Russian dependency and redundancy by opting for joint/indigenous production rather than buying US products.....
 
Dear Aryan2007,
Can you please explain how India is saving time and money?
Aircraft carrier price has doubled and delivery delayed from around 2008 to 2011.
Falcon delivery has also been delayed by around 1 year due to Russian failure to complete work on the aircraft.
Generally Indian defense purchases are badly planned and usually end up with cost escalations and delays.
Indian fighter buying process is going on since I think around 2001 and tenders floated to select companies in 2007. The IAF was hoping to induct the fighters by around 2008-09. It seems highly unlikely.
India has signed agreement with Russia for the joint development of 5th Generation fighter. Guess what IAF has reservations with the agreement. IAF wants MIG to build the fighter while Russians have opted for Flanker family of fighter.
India went through the entire process to finalize the light helicopters for army and then found out that the helicopter evaluation had irregularities. The entire process went down the drain. Back to point zero. Possible Defects In Eurocopter; Indian Army 197 Helicopter Deal May Be Scrapped | India Defence
These are just a few examples. Please hire professionals to do the proper job.:hitwall:
 
Dear Aryan2007,
Can you please explain how India is saving time and money?

Not at the moment... I said
anyways the likely scenario will be..
which Implies in the future..

Aircraft carrier price has doubled and delivery delayed from around 2008 to 2011.

In such project there are inevitable delays.. It was not all Indian fault, Russians are to blame as well.. Let me remind you considering the size of the project and its complexity .. it was expected to hit rough weather...
PS: Most of the projects fail not because of the fault of the professionals but due to vagaries/incorrect speculation of determining factors.. I mean how could India&Russia predict U$ will go down? etc..


Falcon delivery has also been delayed by around 1 year due to Russian failure to complete work on the aircraft.

Yep Phalcon has been delayed that is why I said..

rather diplomatically and tactfully reduce the Russian dependency and redundancy by opting for joint/indigenous production

When India's behind is on the line then projects will be completed on time hopefully.. and if not heads should and must roll... either in joint or self production mode..

Generally Indian defense purchases are badly planned and usually end up with cost escalations and delays.

THis has usually occurs in all projects because.. the buyer demands something like a b c.. the supplier says I can't do a but can add c d e.. etc.. its like options on a base car type thing.. these usually occur because of a lack of communication b/w the requiste parties on both sides... and changing priorities and demands....

THough what you saying is correct to a large extent and its Indian policy of involving middlemen and kickbacks that have brought us to this state... the middle guys in connivance with the corrupt officials are in it for the money..

Indian fighter buying process is going on since I think around 2001 and tenders floated to select companies in 2007. The IAF was hoping to induct the fighters by around 2008-09. It seems highly unlikely.
India has signed agreement with Russia for the joint development of 5th Generation fighter. Guess what IAF has reservations with the agreement. IAF wants MIG to build the fighter while Russians have opted for Flanker family of fighter.

Welcome to Indian bureaucracy and red tape.. this is such a big national security issue and see their response.. so imagine what Indian businessmen and corporates are going through.. India is progressing in spite of the GOvt.. :welcome: to Indian Politics..


India went through the entire process to finalize the light helicopters for army and then found out that the helicopter evaluation had irregularities. The entire process went down the drain. Back to point zero. Possible Defects In Eurocopter; Indian Army 197 Helicopter Deal May Be Scrapped | India Defence

Yep I know I posted this thread somewhere too.. Corrupt bastards.. shot be shot :guns: :sniper:


These are just a few examples. Please hire professionals to do the proper job.:hitwall:

As a Pakistani you should be happy IMO but nonetheless Projects inevitably hit a wall more often than not and there should be more checks in place to monitor the pace of the project.. and for INS Vikram Aditya, Phalcon delay etc.. RUssia's security needs are not on the line and they slacked simple.. as for DRDO projects go they are mostly delayed because they have massive attrition rate daily I think some 11 scientist quit after all they are paid a measly 400-500$ a month..
 
This is to be expected More indians move towards Uncle sam more make uncle putin gets Angry. lets see how the indians menage to walk on this tight Rope.


i would have to agree with cheetah 786 that all these delays is certainly going to cause a lot of stress and nervousness amongst the indian defence planners and it will result in india shifting its major procurement of defense related big-ticket items to the west (read USA) which come with a lot of strings attached (which the indians dont like).
- phalcon delayed
- aircraft carrier delayed
- IL-38(?) maritime a/c delayed or cancelled or rejected.

india cannot afford to have any delays with its MMRCA program bcuz half the IAF would get grounded if the porgram dosnt stay on track. (well 1st the RPF has to be selected/approved). my guess is it will be the F/A-18. too good for the IAF to say no. multi-role, land and sea based.
 
sorry going off-topic.
you know I concur with Ejaz here.your MRCA tenders have been going on for so long that we have had 4 to 5 similar threads about the same damn thing in Defence talk forums.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH is all i gota say its like giveing a DOG a bone first Russia now the US i guess where ever ones back is facing Our indian friends are ready to kiss :toast_sign: haha no offence and plz watch wat u say on here its nota indian site show some respect i have been watching the stupid comments our indian brothers put anyhow cheers !!!! :pakistan:

Regards,
Always the TOPGUN :angry:
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH is all i gota say its like giveing a DOG a bone first Russia now the US i guess where ever ones back is facing Our indian friends are ready to kiss :toast_sign: haha no offence and plz watch wat u say on here its nota indian site show some respect i have been watching the stupid comments our indian brothers put anyhow cheers !!!! :pakistan:

Regards,
Always the TOPGUN :angry:
LOL what was that? :-|
 
Of course we mean "ancient India" by that - the people could have been either today's Pakistanis or today's Indians.:D

Ah...now comes the time when we start arguing where each ancient scientist was born, whether east of the border or west of it.
 

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