More than half of Americans think Iraq war ended in stalemate

[Developereo]

Mr. AUz. I totally agree with you that Arab societies do not now seem to want to establish secular democratic governments. Our (the USA) thinking that they could, or would want to, was part of our stupidity in overthrowing Saddam Hussein. BUT, the jury is still out as to whether these societies can establish and maintain a stable democracy, of any kind .......

The point we are making is that secular democracy is not the only option to guarantee equality and human rights. The core of Islam requires these fundamental rights for everybody, so anyone implementing Islam in spirit and in letter would automatically create an egalitarian society.

This is more of a fight within Islam to promote the egalitarian Islam over the screwed up, self-serving interpretation being dished out by some Muslim extremists.

 

[AUz]

The point we are making is that secular democracy is not the only option to guarantee equality and human rights. The core of Islam requires these fundamental rights for everybody, so anyone implementing Islam in spirit and in letter would automatically create an egalitarian society.

This is more of a fight within Islam to promote the egalitarian Islam over the screwed up, self-serving interpretation being dished out by some Muslim extremists.

You got that right !!! And the "intervention" of "liberal democratic" global forces in this fight for true/moderate Islam screws it up for every body and results in the increase of extremism and desperation among Muslims.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

In the decade from 2001-2011... America has been in three wars. The invasion of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan, and finally in Libya.

Really quite incredible.

 

[Developereo]

You got that right !!! And the "intervention" of "liberal democratic" global forces in this fight for true/moderate Islam screws it up for every body and results in the increase of extremism and desperation among Muslims.

True. The moderates are then portrayed as 'Western lackeys' by the extremists and it makes our job that much harder.

 

[AUz]

True. The moderates are then portrayed as 'Western lackeys' by the extremists and it makes our job that much harder.

EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!! Muslims look down upon *certain* aspects of Western society and when you say " Developereo is a liberal Muslim who is inspired by the West" ...the image of you in the minds of average Muslims would be of a guy who does not care about Islam at all and who supports Western way of life (bikni,drinking,retarded youth culture,no respect of parents, no or weak family system,retarded songs,drugs,pre-marial sex as a part of 'culture',slutty girls,**** and what not) etc etc ... THIS would make Muslims lose their mind and they would NEVER EVER want THIS aspect of Western way of life in their society because , after all , who does?

Generally, average Muslim greatly inspires only ONE aspect of West and that is their great scientific advance/achievements..Where as people in the West think and 'others' inspire their "freedom" and also some think : "They are jealous of our freedom" This is THE MOST retarded notion I have EVER came across but any Westerner won't get it because they only see their fox news to get information about Pakistan.

I got into an argument one time and this girl brought up this retarded crammed sentence of brainwashed westerners "Well its a free country and we are free people" and I just asked "Tell me ONE freedom that I don't have living in Pakistan that YOU have living in US" ....She was dumbfounded,as anyone would expect

What many Westerners need to understand is that "Western way of life" is THE BEST for WEST ONLY.Period. !..Its NOT some "universal" thing ..it would STINK in other parts of the globe.

 

[Developereo]

The fundamental mistake is to generalize and believe there is a monolithic "Western" culture and a monolithic "Islamic" culture and that the two are fundamentally at odds.

There are aspect of Western society that are fantastic and deserve adoption by any progressive society. There are other aspects which are destructive and are best left alone. Same thing with Muslim societies. The aim of progressive Islamic states is to take the best of all cultures (Islamic, Western, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, etc.) and learn from everyone's experiences, good and bad.

Some people get hung up on labels. It's unfortunate.