More Israeli fear-mongering....

[Falcon29]

Given how muslims use every victim Israelis make on their side as a quite effecitve recruiting tool for their next generation of warriors, I'd say you will find much reward in focussing more on defense tech than retaliation and settlement expansion strategies. Far more.



Likewise, although I do see you ignoring facts occasionally;



ehm, https://www.google.com/search?q=q=cast lead white phosphorus yields http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War#White_phosphorus (due to their organisation structure, I consider wikipedia one of the most reliable sources for facts about war), and even tho there's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War#White_phosphorus_shell_fired_into_Israel which says Palestinians started the use of white phosphorous as a weapon against humans, they hit no actual humans. Yet Israel found it reason to kill 50(?) people with the same stuff.
Military overpower (especially when you get to keep that, hinting at NATO help against Iran's nuclear weapons program) comes with responsibility. Fortunately, altho my account at israelmilitary.net got banned in notime when I complained about Israeli 'a-symetrical force' tactics against Palestinians, I complained elsewhere to Israeli leaders and mossad about this (I wasn't the only one to do this I think), and in 2012 I saw big improvements in Israeli tactics for 'the round of that year'.

It hit no humans? Is it in your DNA to lie?

http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/03/25/israel-white-phosphorus-use-evidence-war-crimes

It's not surprising you were banned. 2009 was a PR disaster for Israel. It couldn't be any more clear who they were declaring war against.

Here's a European doctor speaking of the Israeli massive unjustified offensive:

Btw, now that you say Israel did 'better' this round. Which I think is pretty sick to focus on military performance as if that's what satisfies you. Even though they still killed majority civilians. It proves they used extremely disproportionate use of force in Gaza in 2009. Hamas was way weaker and less in numbers then too. Nothing justified what happened. In 2012 Hamas had more numbers and were stronger by far. Yet, we realize Israel didn't need to wage massive war in the name of self defense. And it was 'better' because Hamas outsmarted Israel and Israel could not whatsoever find targets and they resorted to hitting infrastructure like they always do. And resorted to increasing casualties. It's very clear Israel was trying to 'punish' Palestinian civilians in the 2009 offensive.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Once again, quit trying to shove your false narrative down people's throats. Palestinians aren't making attempts to regain their land back through force.

Social media stands with the Palestinians on all issues and things have been going the way social media wants it. You're trying to dumb down the Palestinian cause and vilify it.

Not trying to regain through force? Then you should re read the Hamas manifest because it's squarely 100% disagrees with you. and Hamas is the most moderates there:

article eleven of Hamas covenant:

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that.

This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force.

Article 13:

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with."

Article 7:

Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

They may be nicer in English but they say what they mean in their own language"

indoctrinating kids:

You asked me to back myself up, well here we go.

 

[Falcon29]

Hamas isn't recognized by Israel. So in return they won't recognize the Israeli foundation.

And your whole post was meaningless, they had said they would agree to a 1967 border two state solution. Even if they view their long term goal as dismantling an Israeli state(not killing all Jews as you want to present it), that is justified as it exactly what the Likud party and current Israeli government have done and stated in their charter.

Stating there's no such thing as an occupied Palestine and taking steps towards confiscation through Israeli military force approved by the government is the equivalent of wiping Palestine off the face of the earth and destroying Palestinian identity. This is exactly what the Israeli government does.

So I find it funny that you express so much outrage at past statements by individuals who have no say in politics or Hamas policy. When Israel actions literally provide evidence to claim Israel is committing what you accuse Hamas of.

When in reality we look at the real situation, which is that Hamas governs a little strip representing a small portion of Palestine.

Besides, the charter was never adopted by Hamas since they have won the election and it's a piece of history.

 

[PeaceGen]

Once again, quit trying to shove your false narrative down people's throats. Palestinians aren't making attempts to regain their land back through force.

Social media stands with the Palestinians on all issues and things have been going the way social media wants it. You're trying to dumb down the Palestinian cause and vilify it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

The Hamas Charter (or Covenant), issued in 1988, outlined the organization's position on many issues at the time. It identifies Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[36] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.

.....Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal indicated to Robert Pastor, senior adviser to the Carter Center, that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."[76] Hamas do not use the Charter on their website and prefer to use their election manifesto to put forth their agenda.

 

[PeaceGen]

Such statements by Hamas leaders are of course to gain support from western audiences that fall for the victim card played by them and other extremist muslims. In reality, noting that arab anti-israel propaganda where I bet there are litteral calls for Israelis to be forced to swim to Greece, their goal remains the same, Hamas' actions as evidence, and statements earlier on this forum by Palestinian commanders that they'd use a nuke against Israel the day they get such a device.

 

[Falcon29]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

The Hamas Charter (or Covenant), issued in 1988, outlined the organization's position on many issues at the time. It identifies Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[36] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.

.....Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal indicated to Robert Pastor, senior adviser to the Carter Center, that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."[76] Hamas do not use the Charter on their website and prefer to use their election manifesto to put forth their agenda.

Yet again, in his own link, it states the charter was written by an imam who didn't have strong ties with the movement in the early 1980's. And it says the charter was NOT adopted by Hamas after they were elected. So this is completely irrelevant.

Moving on...do you have anything else to say? Instead of pointing fingers at a decades old document and not observing the reality. If we look at Hamas, we don't see Hamas confiscating Israeli land! we don't see them arresting Israelis without a trial! we don't see them approving settlements in Israeli territory, we don't see Hamas occupying the West Bank through force. That's what we see Israel doing, which in effect, is destroying a Palestinian state and Palestinian cultural identity. What we see Hamas doing is govern a small enclave that's sieged and represents a small portion of Palestine.

Yet, we get propagandists like you who keep pushing this imaginary 'destruction' of Israel to justify Israel's current and real destruction of Palestine.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

It hit no humans? Is it in your DNA to lie?

http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/03/25/israel-white-phosphorus-use-evidence-war-crimes

It's not surprising you were banned. 2009 was a PR disaster for Israel. It couldn't be any more clear who they were declaring war against.
.

Oh a HRW report, thanks didn't you have one written by Araffat? They are anti Israel biased as it goes.
Main funding from Arab and Muslim countries, mostly KSA.
Most activists in the region are Palestinians themselves, very unbiased. They write reports based n hearsay, not even trying to gather evidence and have repeatedly ignored videos the IDF sent them when it didn't fit their agenda.

"According to The Times, "most" of the Middle East department staff of Human Rights Watch "have activist backgrounds — it was typical that one newly hired researcher came to HRW from the extremist anti-Israel publication Electronic Intifada — unlikely to reassure anyone who thinks that human-rights organizations should be non-partisan."

This is their military "expert" in the region:

Marc Garlasco, a senior investigator for HRW, has been criticized for being an avid collector of Nazi memorabilia. Emma Daly confirmed in March 2010 that Garlasco resigned from Human Rights Watch in February 2010, and offered no elaboration.

Helena Cobban, a fellow Middle East analyst of the Human Rights Watch Middle East advisory board, noted that Garlasco engaged with "people who clearly do seem to be Nazi sympathizers," something she called "extremely disturbing,"


Even the founder of HWR believes that the organization that was created in good faith has lost it's way:

"In October 2009, Robert L. Bernstein, the founder of HRW, criticized the organization's policy in the Middle East in The New York Times op-ed. Bernstein questioned the fact that "with increasing frequency, [HRW] casts aside its important distinction between open and closed societies... The region is populated by authoritarian regimes with appalling human rights records. Yet in recent years Human Rights Watch has written far more condemnations of Israel for violations of international law than of any other country in the region.""

In February 2011, HRW appointed Shawan Jabarin to their Mideast Advisory Board who payed a role at the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.


unbiased?

Don't make me laugh.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Yet again, in his own link, it states the charter was written by an imam who didn't have strong ties with the movement in the early 1980's. And it says the charter was NOT adopted by Hamas after they were elected. So this is completely irrelevant.

Moving on...do you have anything else to say? Instead of pointing fingers at a decades old document and not observing the reality. If we look at Hamas, we don't see Hamas confiscating Israeli land! we don't see them arresting Israelis without a trial! we don't see them approving settlements in Israeli territory, we don't see Hamas occupying the West Bank through force. That's what we see Israel doing, which in effect, is destroying a Palestinian state and Palestinian cultural identity. What we see Hamas doing is govern a small enclave that's sieged and represents a small portion of Palestine.

Yet, we get propagandists like you who keep pushing this imaginary 'destruction' of Israel to justify Israel's current and real destruction of Palestine.

huh, regardless by who it was written it was affirmed in 1988, a year after Hamas was created. Hamas has not withdrawn the document to date, explained by "political reasons".
But regardless, have you missed the videos I posted from recent years? do you want a couple more video's of indoctrinations to kill Jews?

Palestinians Arabs and neighboring Arabs have tried to kill the Jews here, They failed, time and again. Should I apologize that you failed to kill me?
It was Jordan that attacked Israel in 67' it was Jordan that lost land in 67' it was Jordan who ceded the lands.

 

[Falcon29]

You'd whine about any human rights organization as long as it doesn't speak in favor of Israel. No, they are the least biased organization. Israeli organizations also take part in these investigations.

It doesn't matter who's investigating. They couldn't speak anymore of the truth. Take responsibility for what Israel committed.

And post a link to your claims. The phony doesn't provide any evidence either. He just makes an unsupported claim so I'm inclined not to believe him.

And oh please, point fingers at dictator regimes elsewhere to say 'we're doing horrible things but just possibly that guy over there is doing worse'. Everyone knows how critical the world is of dictator regimes and the thing is they don't claim to be a state like Israel when it comes down to human rights. Yet, Israel's actions don't reflect on their proclaimed values. So they will be criticized for it.

 

[PeaceGen]

Yet again, in his own link, it states the charter was written by an imam who didn't have strong ties with the movement in the early 1980's. And it says the charter was NOT adopted by Hamas after they were elected. So this is completely irrelevant.

Moving on...do you have anything else to say? Instead of pointing fingers at a decades old document and not observing the reality. If we look at Hamas, we don't see Hamas confiscating Israeli land! we don't see them arresting Israelis without a trial! we don't see them approving settlements in Israeli territory, we don't see Hamas occupying the West Bank through force. That's what we see Israel doing, which in effect, is destroying a Palestinian state and Palestinian cultural identity. What we see Hamas doing is govern a small enclave that's sieged and represents a small portion of Palestine.

Yet, we get propagandists like you who keep pushing this imaginary 'destruction' of Israel to justify Israel's current and real destruction of Palestine.

The fact that Israel has the Palestinians militarily contained and enwalled, and can even afford to build settlements and keep those safe (maybe as a lesson about how P's violent resistance is actually counterproductive for Ps), does not mean Hamas has let go of their original goals of removing Israel off the map. They may appear to have done so in english media, but they're certainly not crystal-clear about it, as evidenced by my previous post. And you still haven't answered why your arab neighbor countries (where many of P descent live as well) can't give up a piece of their territory for a P state.
As for the economic blockade of P by I, that's again to prevent Hamas and groups like 'm to stock up on weapons and try some kinda major offensive against Israel.

But since we're only calling eachother liars at the moment, I'll just accept the fact that you need maybe decades more of suffering by the P people before you see the fundamental flaws in your 'strategies'

Just don't expect me not to warn EU and North-American audiences about how evilly false that victim card is that you try to play over and over like a vynil record that's stuck.

 

[PeaceGen]

You'd whine about any human rights organization as long as it doesn't speak in favor of Israel. No, they are the least biased organization. Israeli organizations also take part in these investigations.

It doesn't matter who's investigating. They couldn't speak anymore of the truth. Take responsibility for what Israel committed.

And post a link to your claims. The phony doesn't provide any evidence either. He just makes an unsupported claim so I'm inclined not to believe him.

And oh please, point fingers at dictator regimes elsewhere to say 'we're doing horrible things but just possibly that guy over there is doing worse'. Everyone knows how critical the world is of dictator regimes and the thing is they don't claim to be a state like Israel when it comes down to human rights. Yet, Israel's actions don't reflect on their proclaimed values. So they will be criticized for it.

I'd say those "islamic states" that extremist groups like Hamas want to set up, are among the worst kind of dictatorships.

 

[Falcon29]

huh, regardless by who it was written it was affirmed in 1988, a year after Hamas was created. Hamas has not withdrawn the document to date, explained by "political reasons".
But regardless, have you missed the videos I posted from recent years? do you want a couple more video's of indoctrinations to kill Jews?

Palestinians Arabs and neighboring Arabs have tried to kill the Jews here, They failed, time and again. Should I apologize that you failed to kill me?
It was Jordan that attacked Israel in 67' it was Jordan that lost land in 67' it was Jordan who ceded the lands.

Dude, you're not on an Israeli forum, this may be a common discussion with your peers. But, when it comes down to all backgrounds, people outside of America aren't spoon fed this doublespeak and empty statements or propaganda.

I stated what is true about the charter and it's not longer relevant. Just as you israelis claim after the Likud took power their charter is no longer relevant but you want to have it both ways.

Btw, it's accepted by almost every scholar on history that Israel started the 67 war which wasn't to 'destroy' Israel and neither was any other war.

Don't you feel ashamed knowing that one day people will read a detailed account on this conflict and realize that you come up with so much ploys. You're losing supporters that way by repeating the same thing that's false.

 

[ResurgentIran]

The fact that Israel has the Palestinians militarily contained and enwalled, and can even afford to build settlements and keep those safe (maybe as a lesson about how P's violent resistance is actually counterproductive for Ps), does not mean Hamas has let go of their original goals of removing Israel off the map.

Enough of that nonsense. What they mean is not physical removal of the land, but rather the removal of the racist and Zionist entity/ideology governing the land.
Israel should cease to exist as a Jewish state, much like the apartheid in South Africa ceased to exist as a White Afrikaaner state.

 

[PeaceGen]

Enough of that nonsense. What they mean is not physical removal of the land, but the entity governing it.
Israel should cease to exist as a Jewish state, much like the apartheid in South Africa ceased to exist as a White Afrikaaner state.

And you wonder why we of NATO are behind Israel when it comes to that nuclear weapons program of yours that you keep denying you run.
Nice nickname you chose by the way, "resurgentIran" we see clearly what morals and methods your country employs for that resurging (=gaining geo political power, i assume), in Syria.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

You'd whine about any human rights organization as long as it doesn't speak in favor of Israel. No, they are the least biased organization. Israeli organizations also take part in these investigations.

So this is how it works? I provide evidence and quotes from notable individuals and newspapers to show bias, but you just throw it all down the drain with a self righteous conviction?

It doesn't matter who's investigating. They couldn't speak anymore of the truth. Take responsibility for what Israel committed.

You wouldn't mind then if a bunch of anti Islamist investigate and judge you on the rape and murder you committed yesterday (by the way they found you guilty). take responsibility for what you have committed!

And oh please, point fingers at dictator regimes elsewhere to say 'we're doing horrible things but just possibly that guy over there is doing worse'. Everyone knows how critical the world is of dictator regimes and the thing is they don't claim to be a state like Israel when it comes down to human rights. Yet, Israel's actions don't reflect on their proclaimed values. So they will be criticized for it.

I am saying that if a cop walks through a neighborhood with murders and rapes on the streets and then arrests a guy for alleged jaywalking then there is something corrupted in the cop and we should not trust his judgment.