More bad news for Delhi: Mig 35s delayed by a decade

[Moscow]

cut the crap and check this from original source not from some source who dosent even know the M of mig

Russia aims to start making MiG-35 fighters for India in 2013 | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire



Russia aims to start making MiG-35 fighters for India in 2013

NIZHNY NOVGOROD (central Russia), August 13 (RIA Novosti) - Production of MiG-35 multirole fighters offered for sale to India cannot start before 2013 or 2014, a Russian aircraft maker said on Thursday.
Russia's MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, an export version of the MiG-29M OVT (Fulcrum F), is a highly maneuverable air superiority fighter, which won high acclaim during the Le Bourget air show in France last year.
"We have begun testing the MiG-35 fighter for the Indian tender," said Alexander Karezin, general director of the Sokol company based in Nizhny Novgorod.
Six major aircraft makers - Lockheed and Boeing from the United States, Russia's MiG, which is part of the UAC, France's Dassault, Sweden's Saab and the EADS consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies - are in contention to win the $10 billion contract for 126 light fighters to be supplied to the Indian Air Force.
Sokol earlier said that the first two MiG-35 aircraft would be delivered to India in August for test flights prior to the award of the tender. In late 2009, Russia will conduct a series of flight tests with live firing for an Indian Air Force delegation at one of the testing grounds on the Russian territory.
The fighter is powered by RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring engines. The RD-33 OVT engines provide superior maneuverability and enhance the fighter's performance in close air engagements.
Moscow said if MiG-35 wins the tender, Russia is ready to transfer all key technology to India's Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. and provide assistance for the production of the aircraft in the country.

 

[Moscow]

even though sukhoi company already merged with mig,it will still take time for mig's recovery,if there's no contract from india,Mig would be asked for bankruptcy years ago.the oil price is not 150 $ per barrel anymore,with limited funds in russia's hands.there is a chance that india's money won't be used to make high-quality MIG 35 but russia's Mig1.44 ，india have to make a tough choice between Mig-35 and F-18,considering the proportion of russian-made in IA，i personally think india's 10B $ is already in russia's pocket

sir your post is incorrect
1.mig didnt merge with sukhoi but both of them came under a same parent company united aircrafts corporation , nobody merged with anybody they are 2 different design plants

2. 1.44 was experimental and its not there anymore mig is concentrating on mig 35 and mig 35d followed by LMFS a llight weight frontal 5th generation aircraft to be built after the pakfa program is completion , probable date 2016 , plans on drawing board already with seperate funds already alloted

3. regarding migs funds there is no shortage now as the russiannavy will place big orders for mig29kub to be purchased and replace the su-33 inits future plans ,so no worry about funds
mig will rock big time but give them some time


thanks

 

[aimarraul]

india should go for MIG-35,russia is willing to offer all the key technologies,i doubt US will do the same thing......

 

[Moscow]

but so is rafale and eurofighter typhoon why mig35 when india is getting MRTA , PAKFA, for sure and possibly LMFS in the future

 

[aimarraul]

but so is rafale and eurofighter typhoon why mig35 when india is getting MRTA , PAKFA, for sure and possibly LMFS in the future

over 70% india's weaponry is from russia, maintenance and supplies will be much harder if they build up multinational army ,it might kill them in the war

 

[Moscow]

over 70% india's weaponry is from russia, maintenance and supplies will be much harder if they build up multinational army ,it might kill them in the war

what is the problem with rafale then iaf uses mirage 2000 as its frontline jets they have very good exp with them and also infrastructure is well built

 

[aimarraul]

what is the problem with rafale then iaf uses mirage 2000 as its frontline jets they have very good exp with them and also infrastructure is well built

i think india just try to get more attention through this contract,it's more like a show,she will choise Mig-35 finally cos these fighter are all with similar performance ,but india can't take the risk to piss russia. here is their reason,i don't buy it.......

French Rafale out of race for IAF fighters

 

[sancho]

india should go for MIG-35,russia is willing to offer all the key technologies,i doubt US will do the same thing......

Like what? RD 33MK? The upgraded RD33 engine that HAL builds for years? Zhuk AESA? That is not better than MKIs BARS, or FGFA IRBIS-E? OLS?
Mig 35 offers some good techs to upgrade older Mig 29s, or intergrate in Mig 29Ks, but nothing superior that MKI don't offer, or won't come through FGFA co-development. The full ToT offer is nothing compared to the one of Rafale, because it would give latest western techs, that IAF can't get otherwise. Spectra EWS, OSF, M88 techs that would be useful for Kaveri and RBE 2 AESA (although I think that this is the only weak point of the Rafale).

i think india just try to get more attention through this contract,it's more like a show,she will choise Mig-35 finally cos these fighter are all with similar performance ,but india can't take the risk to piss russia. here is their reason,i don't buy it.......

French Rafale out of race for IAF fighters

India can't piss Russia if we co-develop Pak Fa and MRTA, buying more MKIs, ships, new carrier and subs. So don't worry about the Indo-Russian relationship.

 

[Moscow]

Like what? RD 33MK? The upgraded RD33 engine that HAL builds for years? Zhuk AESA? That is not better than MKIs BARS, or FGFA IRBIS-E? OLS?
Mig 35 offers some good techs to upgrade older Mig 29s, or intergrate in Mig 29Ks, but nothing superior that MKI don't offer, or won't come through FGFA co-development. The full ToT offer is nothing compared to the one of Rafale, because it would give latest western techs, that IAF can't get otherwise. Spectra EWS, OSF, M88 techs that would be useful for Kaveri and RBE 2 AESA (although I think that this is the only weak point of the Rafale).

India can't piss Russia if we co-develop Pak Fa and MRTA, buying more MKIs, ships, new carrier and subs. So don't worry about the Indo-Russian relationship.

just wanted to add
zhuk aesa is much ahead of bars on mki
pakfa to have phazotron aesa totally new radar displayed on maks 2009
please update your info on the radars
also mig-35 to have 3d vectoring on engines thats much above mki or mig 29

 

[hack]

i think india just try to get more attention through this contract,it's more like a show,she will choise Mig-35 finally cos these fighter are all with similar performance ,but india can't take the risk to piss russia. here is their reason,i don't buy it.......

French Rafale out of race for IAF fighters

With India in the Pak-Fa program...choosing Mig-35 would be a total waste.India will have access to all the latest Russian tech Russia is willing to share thro the 5 th generation fighter project so why waste money on the Mig -35. India should take either the F-18 or the Eurofighter.

 

[Brahm0s]

i think india just try to get more attention through this contract,it's more like a show,she will choise Mig-35 finally cos these fighter are all with similar performance ,but india can't take the risk to piss russia. here is their reason,i don't buy it.......

French Rafale out of race for IAF fighters

Friend it was posted on 16th april. You are posting it just two days ago? Well than 'Good Morning'. Am glad you woke up. Rafael back in MRCA with a 'BANG'. Rafael leading the MRCA race because of full TOT just like mig-35. Mig-35 aint gonna win. Its delivery wont be on time. Thats what russia said. F-18 aint with Full TOT. so america got no chance. Race is between RAFAEL vs TYPHOON. both ready to give india anything india wants and both jet fighter Lethal. Cheers.

 

[sancho]

just wanted to add
zhuk aesa is much ahead of bars on mki
pakfa to have phazotron aesa totally new radar displayed on maks 2009
please update your info on the radars
also mig-35 to have 3d vectoring on engines thats much above mki or mig 29

Don't think so, Zhuk AE is newer but the Bars radar has still a better detection and tracking range (350+ Km / 200Km vs <300 Km / 160Km) and latest news of MKI upgrade says the PESA Bars will be upgraded to AESA Bars, which makes the Zhuk AE even more inferior.
Can you provide a link to the new Phazotron radar? They might develop another AESA radar, but they have financial problems at the moment which makes them not even able to upg the older IAF Mig 29 with Zhuk ME radars. The best Russian radar is the IRBIS-E at the moment and as far as I know Pak FA/ FGFA will get a further developed radar of it.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more, mate! Mig 29K/KUB and Mig 35 will get the same RD33 MK engine, only difference might be (cause you can add them easily) the TVC nozzels.

The RD-33MK will be used as a base model for future improved jet fighter engines. In particular, it may be equipped with Klimov’s proprietary thrust vectoring nozzle that enhances combat efficiency by 12-15%....
...Installed on MiG-29K, MiG-29KUB and MiG-35 jet fighters;

Klimov :: Production :: Aircraft Program :: RD-33MK

Btw, MKI already has 2D TVC and higher thrust and with the upgrade and new AL 41 engines it will also get 3D TVC and even SC capabilities. The MKI is the best Russian fighter besides the Su 35 and Mig 35 will be clearly behind these!

 

[Moscow]

Don't think so, Zhuk AE is newer but the Bars radar has still a better detection and tracking range (350+ Km / 200Km vs <300 Km / 160Km) and latest news of MKI upgrade says the PESA Bars will be upgraded to AESA Bars, which makes the Zhuk AE even more inferior.
Can you provide a link to the new Phazotron radar? They might develop another AESA radar, but they have financial problems at the moment which makes them not even able to upg the older IAF Mig 29 with Zhuk ME radars. The best Russian radar is the IRBIS-E at the moment and as far as I know Pak FA/ FGFA will get a further developed radar of it.
I think you should inform yourself a bit more, mate! Mig 29K/KUB and Mig 35 will get the same RD33 MK engine, only difference might be (cause you can add them easily) the TVC nozzels.


Klimov :: Production :: Aircraft Program :: RD-33MK

Btw, MKI already has 2D TVC and higher thrust and with the upgrade and new AL 41 engines it will also get 3D TVC and even SC capabilities. The MKI is the best Russian fighter besides the Su 35 and Mig 35 will be clearly behind these!

mate here you go about the new radar its much more than what ibris has to offer its launched on maks 2009 so you cannot get more recent than that can you?

i will be viewing it personally also have personal collection of datas on this in person at maks 2009
its an aesa with L-band
and a different X-BAND to be developed as well

The NIIP specialists emphasize that demonstrated AESA is manufactured on the domestic elements based on advanced Galium-Arsenide nano-size heterostructure technologies. The NIIP designers work on electronic scanning arrays (ESA) more than 40 years. Their first world ESA radar for fighter-interceptors was installed on the board of serial MiG-31 aircraft in 1981.

However, the represented model is far ahead of its ancestor in terms of detection capabilities , energy effectiveness, and modes of work . If comparing to passive ESA the advance of active ESA radars is lying in more effective realization of different “air-to-air” and “air-surface” modes, in its power, signal-noise factor, range of detection and so forth.

AESA advance contributes not only to the simultaneously detection of several aerial targets at maximum range (see-first-kill-first capability), but also, which is especially difficult, in targets tracking, disregarding of their maneuvers. If radar can continuously track the target, it is doomed.

AESA radars are more reliable than PESA because in case of one transmitting element failure the radar follows to work.

ONBOARD INTELLECT

It is intended to sharply increase the level of the automation of control systems for maximally unbound the pilot from the routine control functions, with concentrating on tactical missions solution. This is especially important for the one-sitting multifunctional combat aircraft.

On the prospective fighters, says Yuri Belyy (NIIP), it will no longer be just radar, but the integrated radio-electronic system, which includes radars in several wave bands, an identification system, electronic warfare (EW) and electronic intelligence (ELINT). According to him all this is connected into the united ideology, the united concept, and will give the “synergetic combat effect”.

NIIP's AESA emitting modules (MMICS) are made on basis of proved serial technology, being manufacturing on the automated producing lines. For this purpose the state ensured colossal technological rearmament of one of the Moscow enterprises - “Istok inc.” (Fryazevo, Moscow district). Two product lines are under building: the line, where chips themselves are done and an assembly-line, where these chips are assembled into the microcircuits, and then they are integrated into the elements of antenna. These are the specialized micro-chip of superhigh frequencies (SHF), the monolithic integrated circuits of SHF band (MMICs). The more numerous such elements, the more powerful the radar. The quantity of modules in the antenna can reach several thousand.

NIIP's director Yuri Belyy emphasized that this is maximally automated production, in which a human factor is almost excluded. Early there was no such technology in Russia. The equipment, which is not produced in our country, was imported from different states, including Japan. However, Yuri Ivanovich (Belyy) did not say, how many radars they have manufactured.

- Everything is done upon the specific orders, it explained. – We have the manufacturing capability of "Istok", NIIP and 'Ryazan instrument plant' (GRPZ). Now we are transferring all the there necessary documentation and technology. During this program the new production housing with the new equipment was built… “In principle we are ready to equip with our radars up to 50 aircrafts per year”, - said Yuri Belyy.

NIIP's chief said also, that they do AESAs not only for fighters, but for other military systems too. Current antenna phased arrays technology can become standard for different purposes. It can be used in all military services, including long range antiaircraft missile systems, which are now created by “Almaz-Antey” and medium distance 'Buk' AAMS. Maximal unification and serial volume will give huge cost effect. It's the way Americans go: they transfer their military technologies into to civil sector - into the systems of communications and navigation, in warning system of rail transport etc…

- Although, it's impossibly to install our products on each car, we still are going to interest the railroad manufacturers in installing our civil devices for increasing the safety of traffic. However, on that way we still meet many bureaucratic problems.

THE FUTURE BELONGS TO YOUTH

Young radio engineers and the designers, who came 4-5 years ago from different Russian technical universities, have made a bulk part of the work. 'Tikhomirov's NIIP' employs approximately 400 people under age 30. 30-40 young employees were involved in AESA development directly, and when need, they even stayed overnight like in war time…

There are young persons everywhere: on the stands, on assembling and control line… However the general director is not satisfied and think that the number of young employees is not enough. He decide to build a new housing quarter for the young specialists families.

At the MAKS -2009 air show, 'Tikhomirov NIIP' will demonstrate also an L- range AESA. It's intended for installation into the leading-edge slats of the fighter's wing. It is also made with use of the contemporary domestic hybrid integral technologies and provides electronic scanning in wide sector of angles in horizontal axis. In addition it has broadband capability. Like the X-band radar, this L-band radar was assembled in NIIP with help of unique laboratory equipment, which includes the last word of contemporary technology: radar anechoic chamber".

also note there is no finiancial problem with irkut or tikhimirov they recently went public and are even eyeing to buy shares of HAL ican provide you that link as well

cheers

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

mate here you go about the new radar its much more than what ibris has to offer its launched on maks 2009 so you cannot get more recent than that can you?

i will be viewing it personally also have personal collection of datas on this in person at maks 2009
its an aesa with L-band
and a different X-BAND to be developed as well

The NIIP specialists emphasize that demonstrated AESA is manufactured on the domestic elements based on advanced Galium-Arsenide nano-size heterostructure technologies. The NIIP designers work on electronic scanning arrays (ESA) more than 40 years. Their first world ESA radar for fighter-interceptors was installed on the board of serial MiG-31 aircraft in 1981.

However, the represented model is far ahead of its ancestor in terms of detection capabilities , energy effectiveness, and modes of work . If comparing to passive ESA the advance of active ESA radars is lying in more effective realization of different “air-to-air” and “air-surface” modes, in its power, signal-noise factor, range of detection and so forth.

AESA advance contributes not only to the simultaneously detection of several aerial targets at maximum range (see-first-kill-first capability), but also, which is especially difficult, in targets tracking, disregarding of their maneuvers. If radar can continuously track the target, it is doomed.

AESA radars are more reliable than PESA because in case of one transmitting element failure the radar follows to work.

ONBOARD INTELLECT

It is intended to sharply increase the level of the automation of control systems for maximally unbound the pilot from the routine control functions, with concentrating on tactical missions solution. This is especially important for the one-sitting multifunctional combat aircraft.

On the prospective fighters, says Yuri Belyy (NIIP), it will no longer be just radar, but the integrated radio-electronic system, which includes radars in several wave bands, an identification system, electronic warfare (EW) and electronic intelligence (ELINT). According to him all this is connected into the united ideology, the united concept, and will give the “synergetic combat effect”.

NIIP's AESA emitting modules (MMICS) are made on basis of proved serial technology, being manufacturing on the automated producing lines. For this purpose the state ensured colossal technological rearmament of one of the Moscow enterprises - “Istok inc.” (Fryazevo, Moscow district). Two product lines are under building: the line, where chips themselves are done and an assembly-line, where these chips are assembled into the microcircuits, and then they are integrated into the elements of antenna. These are the specialized micro-chip of superhigh frequencies (SHF), the monolithic integrated circuits of SHF band (MMICs). The more numerous such elements, the more powerful the radar. The quantity of modules in the antenna can reach several thousand.

NIIP's director Yuri Belyy emphasized that this is maximally automated production, in which a human factor is almost excluded. Early there was no such technology in Russia. The equipment, which is not produced in our country, was imported from different states, including Japan. However, Yuri Ivanovich (Belyy) did not say, how many radars they have manufactured.

- Everything is done upon the specific orders, it explained. – We have the manufacturing capability of "Istok", NIIP and 'Ryazan instrument plant' (GRPZ). Now we are transferring all the there necessary documentation and technology. During this program the new production housing with the new equipment was built… “In principle we are ready to equip with our radars up to 50 aircrafts per year”, - said Yuri Belyy.

NIIP's chief said also, that they do AESAs not only for fighters, but for other military systems too. Current antenna phased arrays technology can become standard for different purposes. It can be used in all military services, including long range antiaircraft missile systems, which are now created by “Almaz-Antey” and medium distance 'Buk' AAMS. Maximal unification and serial volume will give huge cost effect. It's the way Americans go: they transfer their military technologies into to civil sector - into the systems of communications and navigation, in warning system of rail transport etc…

- Although, it's impossibly to install our products on each car, we still are going to interest the railroad manufacturers in installing our civil devices for increasing the safety of traffic. However, on that way we still meet many bureaucratic problems.

THE FUTURE BELONGS TO YOUTH

Young radio engineers and the designers, who came 4-5 years ago from different Russian technical universities, have made a bulk part of the work. 'Tikhomirov's NIIP' employs approximately 400 people under age 30. 30-40 young employees were involved in AESA development directly, and when need, they even stayed overnight like in war time…

There are young persons everywhere: on the stands, on assembling and control line… However the general director is not satisfied and think that the number of young employees is not enough. He decide to build a new housing quarter for the young specialists families.

At the MAKS -2009 air show, 'Tikhomirov NIIP' will demonstrate also an L- range AESA. It's intended for installation into the leading-edge slats of the fighter's wing. It is also made with use of the contemporary domestic hybrid integral technologies and provides electronic scanning in wide sector of angles in horizontal axis. In addition it has broadband capability. Like the X-band radar, this L-band radar was assembled in NIIP with help of unique laboratory equipment, which includes the last word of contemporary technology: radar anechoic chamber".

also note there is no finiancial problem with irkut or tikhimirov they recently went public and are even eyeing to buy shares of HAL ican provide you that link as well

cheers

 

[sancho]

mate here you go about the new radar its much more than what ibris has to offer its launched on maks 2009 so you cannot get more recent than that can you?

i will be viewing it personally also have personal collection of datas on this in person at maks 2009
its an aesa with L-band
and a different X-BAND to be developed as well

Is it possible that you mixed up something? You said earlier that Phazotron will build a new radar for Pak Fa, but your source says:

At the MAKS -2009 air show, 'Tikhomirov NIIP' will demonstrate also an L- range AESA. It's intended for installation into the leading-edge slats of the fighter's wing.

If i'm not wrong Tikhomirov NIIP is the manufacturer of IRBIS - E, so the radar you are talking about, is the same improved IRBIS - E radar that I meant and not a new one from Phazotron.

also note there is no finiancial problem with irkut or tikhimirov they recently went public and are even eyeing to buy shares of HAL ican provide you that link as well

cheers

Again you mixed something up, I said Phazotron has financial problems!

 

[Moscow]

sorry mate it was a typo error i typed PHAZOTRON instead of TIKHOMIROV

NOW I GOT what went wrong in the understanding , i am sorry for the typo error
but anyways its going to bbe the new AESA by tokhomirov that will be installed on all the sukhoi planes its always that while mig corp uses the phazotron

That is not better than MKIs BARS, or FGFA IRBIS-E? OLS?

i just wanted to point out that PAKFA will have very high specs than what is there currently also mig is willing to customize the mig35 with what-ever components they want