Money or Strategic Interests?

[SrNair]

The Russian economy maybe the same size as that of india's but their population is approx. 10x less than that of india. Also, they can indigenously produce high tech weaponry of the same standard as those of the americans. Something which indians cannot do. Therefore Russia will always be far superior to India.

We knows the type,quality and everything about Russian systems .
India will continue 8+% growth for next 4 decades .

 

[Centurion2016]

TO PAKISTANAGE

If population size or lack of it was strength then luxuenbourg or Bhutan would be super powers

Massive thriving young population coupled with technology and investment is a deadly combination.

the reason india is twice the GDP of RUSSIA and 8 times the GDP of Pakistan is due to these factors.

TODAY TONIGHT ,,,, THIS MINUTE

India is the fastest growing top ten economy in the world.............

growing three times the pace of japan Germany uk ..

by 2020 india will overtake UK and france

by 2026 both japan & Germany

Don't underestimate the purchasing manufacturing power of over 500 million middles class Indians


$2.3 trillion and growing @ 8%

 

[Salahuddin Ayubi]

@Sinopakfriend
Bang on the buck, as always. Your posts are a treat to read...... And thought provoking .

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

TO PAKISTANAGE

If population size or lack of it was strength then luxuenbourg or Bhutan would be super powers

Massive thriving young population coupled with technology and investment is a deadly combination.

the reason india is twice the GDP of RUSSIA and 8 times the GDP of Pakistan is due to these factors.

TODAY TONIGHT ,,,, THIS MINUTE

India is the fastest growing top ten economy in the world.............

growing three times the pace of japan Germany uk ..

by 2020 india will overtake UK and france

by 2026 both japan & Germany

Don't underestimate the purchasing manufacturing power of over 500 million middles class Indians


$2.3 trillion and growing @ 8%

Keep fudging data and keep fooling people....Only RSS believes in its lies....

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

We knows the type,quality and everything about Russian systems .
India will continue 8+% growth for next 4 decades .

As will india's population continue to grow. This will create some massive debilitating problems that no indian dares to discuss.

 

[Centurion2016]

PAKISTANAGE

Poplulation in india is stabilising in india now as [people have fewer children especially the ricj and middle classes

Poplulation in growing at 2%

GDP at 8%

YPOU WORK OUT THE REST

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

For first part of question...My answer is, Yes. While about the latter one ; I think we will surely act resolutely in our area of responsibility in ME only after we become internally strong....

Pakistan has very close ties with Arabs historically. We are the only Muslim Nuclear state among more than 50 countries. Arabs do know this. Being of same religion, Pakistan can definitely act more confidently than others in ME...

But I think we will have to make our country strong in all fronts for that...Diplomatically, economically and militarily...I think we are on our way with the help of you guys ...And In Sha Allah, we will regain our lost glory...

Some bastards, local and foreign elite trapped us in war on terrorism, hordes of refugees came in...We bear it, we bear it alone. Heavy damage we suffered in economy, tourism, infrastructure and casualties of our people....

Then came in China with CPEC, which literally excited Pakistanis from top to bottom, our moral got shoot up and we take an oath to make CPEC successful at all costs.....China has just put an injection into Pakistanis. We are not gonna stop now. When we decide to make something, we make it one way or the other, for example Nukes. No one wanted nukes in Pakistan hands but we have it and enemy can't do jack squat about it...

This is all I wanted to say...Say my thanks to all Chinese people out there in Netherlands and in back home China on behalf of me....We will never forget you guys who stood with us in all hardships. A sign of true friend. We can blindly trust China and Turkey, our two most trusted allies on whom we can count on and get support....

My dear brother,

Your goodness and generosity always brings peace to my heart..Bless you!

The truth is for decades that I have studied South West Asia (Pak, Iran, AFG)... I have never seen Pak people, gov and the Pak deep state so excited about something...

I will even go as far as saying I have never seen in your history...so much hope, so much optimism from all of your provinces...CPEC is unleashing something deeper in Pak Soul (@Kaptaan you wanted to expand, my brohter, on CPEC then create an invitation only thread)

Our enemy is an illegal empire of hate and oppression...the progress and porsperity of Pak threatens its very existence....I wish you to just become what your are capable of.

You lot are hardy, stubborn, passionate and generous people...just turn all these energies into Action and break free.

All your great country needs is a decade plus of 5-7% growth. This is peanuts compared to what you can and have done in the past. When we take into account your informal economy you are already much above half a Trillion mark. Keep your Heads up!

In the 60s your were unstoppable...

You are still the same people. Now you are better equipped and educated and developed than in those days.

You all Pak Friends and Brothers, Keep your Chins Up, Shoulders Straight and Backs Upright.

You need to become a Trillion plus economy within a decade. This is imparative. And funnily just too easy for you.

CPEC is just the beginning...Please, learn to think in Centuries and not just years...Here you can Learn from China.

You can do it. Just capitalise on the energies and optimism released by CPEC and gain strategic confidence. Crush the indian empire sponsored terror and fifth columns among your beautiful lands.

Remember you are great peoples, your country is the Bridgehead of strategic economic and security of energy producers and users.

You have bloody nukes...world class armed forces.. capable professional class. You have strategic and agricultural resources. What are you waiting for?

Get your confidence up, Brothers!

Look the Destiny in the Eyes and Act with Absolute Confidence.

Long live Sino-Pak Axis of Peace, Friendship and Prosperity.

Time to write the History of the Future.

As will india's population continue to grow. This will create some massive debilitating problems that no indian dares to discuss.

My Pak Brother,

Why should we give a toss about what illegal and hateful indian empire does or does not.

We have Date with Destiny...on our great journey...dogs will bark and donkeys will bay...but onwards we go.

These hateful souls are here for the lies and distraction...try to disavade us from our course of action.

Why waste energies on them.

We just need to cruch their proxies and their sponsor terror.

We are creating a new age... our goals and destination is ours.

Take care and do not wrestle with the pigs they will only make your clothes dirty.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

My dear brother,

Your goodness and generosity always brings peace to my heart..Bless you!

The truth is for decades that I have studied South West Asia (Pak, Iran, AFG)... I have never seen Pak people, gov and the Pak deep state so excited about something...

I will even go as far as saying I have never seen in your history...so much hope, so much optimism from all of your provinces...CPEC is unleashing something deeper in Pak Soul (@Kaptaan you wanted to expand, my brohter, on CPEC then create an invitation only thread)

Our enemy is an illegal empire of hate and oppression...the progress and porsperity of Pak threatens its very existence....I wish you to just become what your are capable of.

You lot are hardy, stubborn, passionate and generous people...just turn all these energies into Action and break free.

All your great country needs is a decade plus of 5-7% growth. This is peanuts compared to what you can and have done in the past. When we take into account your informal economy you are already much above half a Trillion mark. Keep your Heads up!

In the 60s your were unstoppable...

You are still the same people. Now you are better equipped and educated and developed than in those days.

You all Pak Friends and Brothers, Keep your Chins Up, Shoulders Straight and Backs Upright.

You need to become a Trillion plus economy within a decade. This is imparative. And funnily just too easy for you.

CPEC is just the beginning...Please, learn to think in Centuries and not just years...Here you can Learn from China.

You can do it. Just capitalise on the energies and optimism released by CPEC and gain strategic confidence. Crush the indian empire sponsored terror and fifth columns among your beautiful lands.

Remember you are great peoples, your country is the Bridgehead of strategic economic and security of energy producers and users.

You have bloody nukes...world class armed forces.. capable professional class. You have strategic and agricultural resources. What are you waiting for?

Get your confidence up, Brothers!

Look the Destiny in the Eyes and Act with Absolute Confidence.

Long live Sino-Pak Axis of Peace, Friendship and Prosperity.

Time to write the History of the Future.



My Pak Brother,

Why should we give a toss about what illegal and hateful indian empire does or does not.

We have Date with Destiny...on our great journey...dogs will bark and donkeys will bay...but onwards we go.

These hateful souls are here for the lies and distraction...try to disavade us from our course of action.

Why waste energies on them.

We just need to cruch their proxies and their sponsor terror.

We are creating a new age... our goals and destination is ours.

Take care and do not wrestle with the pigs they will only make your clothes dirty.

HEAR HEAR EVERY PAKISTANI SHOULD HEAR THIS....... @django @Zibago @Moonlight @mikkix @Pakistan First @LadyFinger @Max @Doordie @Mentee @war&peace The Sandman

 

[Indus Pakistan]

expand

I will. I want a high quality, no holds barred, frank discussion. I have not had time but as soon as I do you will be tagged first. For now you can see in this innocent comment below what is Pakistan's real problem more than anything else.

We are the only Muslim Nuclear state

This innocent remark by a very well regarded, progressive member exposes what ails Pakistan. A propensity to look at everything with religious prescription. When USA made the Atom bomb no American ever said "Christian Atom Bomb". It was American Bomb. When Britain made the Atom Bomb nobody said it was Christian Atom Bomb. It was a British Bomb.

In case of Pakistan it is replicated with "Muslim". Check the map if you can find a nation state called "Muslimstan"?

In Pakistan there is a fundamental crisis of identity that needs resolving which is at the very core is sending ripples of turbulence.

And @PaklovesTurkiye please do not take offence. I just used this as symptom and not criticism of you personally

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

I will. I want a high quality, no holds barred, frank discussion. I have not had time but as soon as I do you will be tagged first. For now you can see in this innocent comment below what is Pakistan's real problem more than anything else.


This innocent remark by a very well regarded, progressive member exposes what ails Pakistan. A propensity to look at everything with religious prescription. When USA made the Atom bomb no American ever said "Christian Atom Bomb". It was American Bomb. When Britain made the Atom Bomb nobody said it was Christian Atom Bomb. It was a British Bomb.

In case of Pakistan it is replicated with "Muslim". Check the map if you can find a nation state called "Muslimstan"?

In Pakistan there is a fundamental crisis of identity that needs resolving which is at the very core is sending ribbles of turbulence.

If you recall, I have said that not even Pak gov realises the significance of CPEC. Sadly, your political class does not even understand the great regional power that you are.

I will contribute in all opness and honesty to your thread when you have time. I just have no energy for negativity of RSS stooges here.

Hence my request...invitation only thread so that we all might learn something and advance in understanding through rational discourse.

@PaklovesTurkiye embodies goodness of your nation...he is pure of heart and mind. Yet your contention is correct we need to develop a narrative that channels this goodness into something greater...Pak needs to find her own identity and not hark to some arab identity.

The Sad Truth is that your great nations heritage is stolen in broad day light by the illegal indian empire yet none of you see it.

Turkey for example might be muslim but their narrative is that a wolf brought the Turks out of the steppes... @HAKIKAT ?

Your country is the inheritor of a civilisation that is older than Summer...yet you let it steal by your nemesis.

I find that to be tragic.

All the best in your activities, my you prosper and achieve your true potential!

Pak people are generous and loyal. This is their quality and their weakness.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Turkey for example might be muslim but their narrative is that a wolf brought the Turks out of the steppes... @HAKIKAT ?

Salute to the mighty Turks for that. Great people.

Your country is the inheritor of a civilisation that is older than Summer...yet you let it steal by your nemesis.

Thank you for that. Yes, indeed Pakistan is one of the few crucibles of civilization. That is why the Ganga nemesis is so intent on jumping on Indus which is one of the few fountanheads of human civilization.

CPEC is great opportunity for the modern successors great ancient civilizations of Yellow River and Indus to work together.

The two great republics heirs to two great river civilizations. The Indus and Yellow River.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Salute to the mighty Turks for that. Great people.


Thank you for that. Yes, indeed Pakistan is one of the few crucibles of civilization. That is why the Ganga nemesis is so intent on jumping on Indus which is one of the few fountanheads of human civilization.

CPEC is great opportunity for the modern successors great ancient civilizations of Yellow River and Indus to work together.

Then it is time to Write the History of the Future.

I will challenge you, push in the corner and demolish all the fake assumption of my Pak Friends and Brothers..just so that you all can see your own heritage and shape your future.

You will forgive me for my directness, my cold, detached material dialectics...I will do so because I am a SinoPak Friend. I wish you well...

In the end of our discourse what will emerge will be the synthesis of Factual Truth. A narrative that will connect thousands of years of your past with a mellnium of your future. And in the process we will take back the stolen heritage. These RSS stooges dont even know what Vishnu means and where that originated... time to demolish lies.

In the decades of my studies of Sumeria, Pak Civilisations.. you have much more than just Indus valley..The ancient Persia... I have not seen a people like yours...yet the tragic inertia...which is purely mental...is beyond my understanding.

Even being old, I am an optimist person. You young people with your intelligence and energy give me a boost. Thank you all for that.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

CPEC is about about bringing these two old civilizations together - a modern iteration of the the ancient Indus and Yellow River. Pakistan > China.

 

[sady]

Till we put our own house in order not even China will be able to get a meaningful thing going on.

Someone somewhere needs to blink.

 

[wiseone2]

You didn't comment on the topic. In your opinion, is it about short-term monetary gains from military transactions or a part of medium to long term strategic objectives.

what are the long term strategic objectives of Russia ?

I can state a few
1. arrangement with EU with free movement of Russian nationals & goods into EU
2. some arrangement with NATO not to mess with them
3. protect Asian portion of Russia from China
4. protection from Islamic militancy originating from Central Asia, Middle East
5. nuclear parity with America

Pakistan can help a little bit with # 4

The Indian mindset, for obvious reasons, will remain stuck with "India will be able to arm-twist Russia out of selling strategically important military assets to Pakistan".

Russian economy is, even now, much much larger and stronger than India's. just compare the two using any easily-available online tools and you'll see.

Russia's decisions, which it has already taken, is based on long term goals.

The Russian economy is based on oil prices. The Indian economy is much broader based. India has a population of 7x which works out better in the long run.

I will. I want a high quality, no holds barred, frank discussion. I have not had time but as soon as I do you will be tagged first. For now you can see in this innocent comment below what is Pakistan's real problem more than anything else.


This innocent remark by a very well regarded, progressive member exposes what ails Pakistan. A propensity to look at everything with religious prescription. When USA made the Atom bomb no American ever said "Christian Atom Bomb". It was American Bomb. When Britain made the Atom Bomb nobody said it was Christian Atom Bomb. It was a British Bomb.

In case of Pakistan it is replicated with "Muslim". Check the map if you can find a nation state called "Muslimstan"?

In Pakistan there is a fundamental crisis of identity that needs resolving which is at the very core is sending ripples of turbulence.

And @PaklovesTurkiye please do not take offence. I just used this as symptom and not criticism of you personally

Building a nuclear weapon is a function of political will, engineering and economics. Egypt, Iran, Turkey, Indonesia are capable of building nukes within 5-10 years. You can add Saudi Arabia who can buy their way into the club. Pakistan cannot dictate terms with any of these countries because they do not have nukes.

The strategic foot hold what you've been trying to imply, even Iran has to offer the same, along with that a better economy. And Russia cannot sacrifice Indian market for the short term monetary gain. Though Pakistan will have access to Russian platforms like BMPs, Helicopters, short range air defense or even tanks.

Pakistan had a chance in the early 90s during the USSR era, they'd have gladly supplied weapons to increase strategic footage in south east asia to drive away the US influence. But, given the condition of Russian economy, they cannot afford to lose a market like India just to offer 20-30 Su-35s to Pakistan.

And during the time of sanctions, Russians were arrogant with their products, as the western doors were closed for us, now even the Russians know their position, and cannot afford to upset Indian defense ministry, as they are still in race for the prospective 35-40 billion dollars of worth of business, and not to forget their contribution in the civilian nuclear sector.

They can never get hold of strategic assets that can tilt the equation of war in Pakistan's favor. Like SSNs, Carriers, long range nuclear capable bombers, or S-400.

Russia will offer Pakistan tanks, armor vehicles, short range air defense systems, attack choppers, 2nd tier combat aircraft, transport aircraft, maritime patrol aircraft, transport choppers and surface ships. If Pakistan does not place large orders it becomes hard for Russia to continue the relationship. Why risk trade with India with little to compensate for ?
long range missile technology, S-400s and SSBNs are out of question.

If Russia delivers PAK-FA to India on time & schedule the mandarins in India might not complain about the Su-35