MODI cleared Ishrat Murder

[Omtatsat]

The trouble with the fascist mind-set is that it is temperamentally unable to think in terms of the rule of law. Absent that, it searches for other explanations and alternatives, and comes out with these weird concoctions.

Unfortunately for these ivory tower pundits, as Khaled Anis Ansari and Afroze Alam have already shown, the Muslim vote is a myth. Each individual Muslim voter votes as she or he does for a variety of reasons. There are economic reasons, good governance reasons, yes, political reasons, local issues, ecological issues, the whole nine yards. It is difficult for muscle-headed Hindu bigots to think of Muslim women and men actually behaving like individual, idiosyncratic human beings. To these thugs, Muslims are a commodity, a class of object not quite human, therefore not capable of human reactions. The same applies to Muslim bigots who find no reason to think of the kaffir in terms other than a sweeping common category doomed to hellfire and fit only to serve the Ummah.

It is fortunate for the vast mass of us that this kind of calculation is increasingly proving itself hollow, save in times of extreme stress, when there is a lumping together of the voting of frightened, insecure people under constant threat of punishment.

And that is what the constitution, and the rule of law is designed to prevent. Which again is precisely why the communal rabble rouser hates both of these.



And welcome to vote bank politics.

This is where it is, not just within the corrupt kleptocracy of the Congress, but also within the corrupt lumpenproletariat of the BJP.

The trouble is not with the "Fascist" mindset but with pitiable ivory tower dwellers such as yourself whose faculties have been completely destroyed by the toxic mix of Marxist theories and western materialistic liberal thought. You have been so mindfu**ed that you are unable to see the world as it really is... but only as an illusion of a set of hyperindividualistic persons coming together, if at all, solely for the protection of their economic class interests.

I m amazed that a man of such advanced years is so uncognizant of the realities of the Indian society and Indian Politics. Macaulay has succeeded far beyond his wildest dreams....Identity and social bonds are a reality of Indian life and major determinants of power equations. Even a child knows that Muslims indulge in tactical voting...and I respect them for it.... I is only that Hindus should also do so... It is wishful dreamers such as you who have allowed the penetration of our society by hostile forces by hijacking all intellectual discourse.

I respect our enemies...the terrorists...far more than you whom I hold in the deepest contempt. At least they are upfront and brave...like a sword wound which can be seen coming and defended against. You...and the likes of you...are like the insidious cancer which weakens silently till the body finally falls.

 

[doppelganger]

double post

 

[Omtatsat]

It is unclear whether it was known they were Jihadis, even if they were, why weren't they taken into custody?

Wont you ever give up??? Oh Im sorry! two of them were your countrymen...Are you from Pakistani Punjab or which part?

 

[doppelganger]

It is unclear whether it was known they were Jihadis, even if they were, why weren't they taken into custody?

I think knowing what we know now, at the time they were killed there were no real doubts that these were jihadis.

Why take them into custody and waste the time and money of the country on trying them and run the risk of them going free later on technicalities? Send them on their way post haste.

 

[Omtatsat]

Again, to an ignorant mind, the antecedents of a murdered person may seem important. They are not. Whatever the background, whatever the intentions, only a constituted court of law can judge guilt or innocence, and in case of guilt, decide a sentence, including the death sentence if permitted by statute, and order the sentence to be executed.

There are no exceptions to this.

Oh I see. The Great Bong Wooly Headed Marxist Liberal has pronounced...no more discussions please....you see he is very senior..

 

[Joe Shearer]

As per CBI, this encounter was a joint operation of Gujrat Police & IB. Since IB works directly under central govt, so who is arresting then Home Minister as well as Prime Minister of India ? Bloody losers

You are wrong, therefore confused.

The CBI did not call the encounter a joint operation of the Gujarat Police and the IB. The IB cannot intervene; it has no authority to do so, no power to do so. It may become in future the case of the CBI - which is not so today - that some officers of the Subsidiary Intelligence Bureau, acting on their own, without any authority, without the knowledge of the senior officers, colluded with the Gujarat Police.

This is also connected to the mistaken triumphal proclamations about the Home Ministry not according sanction for prosecution.

The Home Ministry has to give sanction for prosecution, like every other arm of government, for prosecution of officers who have merely discharged their duties. Officers who commit crimes, who go beyond their official remit are not immune. Rajinder Kumar was not acting in discharge of his duties beyond passing on the information to the state police. All the plotting he did subsequently was wholly beyond his official duties. No sanction is needed for that, any more than sanction is needed to book a police officer, or any government officer, for committing theft.

It is still not established that this man did anything wrong, in violation of the law, which is why the charge sheet does not include his name yet.

 

[Bang Galore]

It is unclear whether it was known they were Jihadis, even if they were, why weren't they taken into custody?

Good question. Why didn't the IB ask the Maharashtra police to arrest them before they came to Gujarat ? IB is a central organisation. If the actions of the state police are taken as the actions accorded permission by the CM of Gujarat, then logic hold that the Union Home Minister & the PM should be held accountable for the actions of IB personnel. There is no logic to the argument that the IB didn't understand what was happening, what would happen with the information given by them. If the CBI is to be believed, the IB officer helped plant the weapons at the site of the "encounter". Since the IB director has voiced his support for the officer concerned, it must be assumed that the IB as an organisation was involved in the operation. The "Buck" then stops at the HM & PM's door if the wish is to see the actions of the Gujarat police as reflecting on the CM there.

Btw, it would be very interesting to ask what happened to the assassin supposedly sent by Dawood Ibrahim to take out Kasab. It seems common knowledge that he was interdicted by Indian intelligence but what became of him? Don't see a court case anywhere....

 

[Omtatsat]

You are wrong, therefore confused.

The CBI did not call the encounter a joint operation of the Gujarat Police and the IB. The IB cannot intervene; it has no authority to do so, no power to do so. It may become in future the case of the CBI - which is not so today - that some officers of the Subsidiary Intelligence Bureau, acting on their own, without any authority, without the knowledge of the senior officers, colluded with the Gujarat Police.

This is also connected to the mistaken triumphal proclamations about the Home Ministry not according sanction for prosecution.

The Home Ministry has to give sanction for prosecution, like every other arm of government, for prosecution of officers who have merely discharged their duties. Officers who commit crimes, who go beyond their official remit are not immune. Rajinder Kumar was not acting in discharge of his duties beyond passing on the information to the state police. All the plotting he did subsequently was wholly beyond his official duties. No sanction is needed for that, any more than sanction is needed to book a police officer, or any government officer, for committing theft.

It is still not established that this man did anything wrong, in violation of the law, which is why the charge sheet does not include his name yet.

Talking out of your hat as usual...and to think that you claimed some army connection...what was it? Cleaning up after the horses on a army polo ground?

So the IB is simply a pizza delivery boy who delivers to the state police and is then gone...unconcerned with whether Joe sharer eats the pizza or wipes his a*s with it. Of course they would not want to interrogate the terrorists once they are picked up....nor corroborate the interrogation findings with their operatives back in pak / J&K.... neither will they evaluate the hierarchical importance of the captives and then evaluate as to their fate... and they keep these unmarked weapons, AK 56 and others, which they gave to Gujarat Police, just for their children to play with..

Im almost certain that in this case a decision to eliminate was taken by the IB, rather than The local police, and will full consent of the leadership, both in state and the Central Govt.

Stop playing Lawyer...lawyer...Mr Know All.

 

[Bang Galore]

You are wrong, therefore confused.

The CBI did not call the encounter a joint operation of the Gujarat Police and the IB. The IB cannot intervene; it has no authority to do so, no power to do so. It may become in future the case of the CBI - which is not so today - that some officers of the Subsidiary Intelligence Bureau, acting on their own, without any authority, without the knowledge of the senior officers, colluded with the Gujarat Police.

This is also connected to the mistaken triumphal proclamations about the Home Ministry not according sanction for prosecution.

The Home Ministry has to give sanction for prosecution, like every other arm of government, for prosecution of officers who have merely discharged their duties. Officers who commit crimes, who go beyond their official remit are not immune. Rajinder Kumar was not acting in discharge of his duties beyond passing on the information to the state police. All the plotting he did subsequently was wholly beyond his official duties. No sanction is needed for that, any more than sanction is needed to book a police officer, or any government officer, for committing theft.

It is still not established that this man did anything wrong, in violation of the law, which is why the charge sheet does not include his name yet.

With all due respect, this is cherry picking. The IB was aware that they had passed on information that resulted in deaths of those individuals at the hands of the Gujarat police. It doesn't matter if the officer involved himself "further", senior officials of the IB knew. Heard the IB complaining about it? To anyone? Not one of them have backtracked on their claims with even retired IB officers pointing out that terrorists will often get dealt with, in this manner. It would be extraordinarily cussed to assume that the Gujarat police who were supposedly hunting for some innocent girl of the minority community to be killed would suddenly find a gift dropped in their lap by the IB. Surely you of all people recognise that there must be something more here than meets the eye.

 

[Bang Galore]

Talking out of your hat as usual...and to think that you claimed some army connection...what was it? Cleaning up after the horses on a army polo ground?

Not insisting that you take my advice but I suggest you leave JS's background well alone. It is more impressive than you might guess & his knowledge of both the military & the police is not be scoffed at, His father was one of India's finest police officers(not giving away any secret here) and the people who were considered to be "family friends" reads like the who's who of the Indian military. What he knows is far far more that what you & I ever will.

That doesn't mean his viewpoint cannot be opposed. I do that myself sometimes but it is best not to get personal. Even if he does.

 

[Marxist]

Look at the charge sheet and only at the charge sheet.

There are no charges against Rajinder KUMAR. Discussions about his guilt or innocence are highly premature.

There are no charges against Modi. Discussions about his guilt or innocence are highly premature.

Yes there are no charges against them in first charge sheet ,but their names are there ....it states they have prior knowledge of encounter,so as per provisions of Sec: 120-B of IPC modi can be held guilty and you are correct matter is sub judice,so its premature to come into conclusions of our own

 

[Omtatsat]

Not insisting that you take my advice but I suggest you leave JS's background well alone. It is more impressive than you might guess & his knowledge of both the military & the police is not be scoffed at, His father was one of India's finest police officers(not giving away any secret here) and the people who were considered to be "family friends" reads like the who's who of the Indian military. What he knows is far far more that what you & I ever will.

That doesn't mean his viewpoint cannot be opposed. I do that myself sometimes but it is best not to get personal. Even if he does.

I m not impressed. He is a typical arm chair theoretician with zero real world awareness and who thinks he can preach to all and sundry. And as for his knowledge of the criminal laws and working of the Government...his family background does not seem to have enlightened him much as I know a bit about these things myself.

Sorry! ... his rank or whatever does not impress me much as it is these liberal phonies who have brought our nation to such a pass..

 

[doppelganger]

I m not impressed. He is a typical arm chair theoretician with zero real world awareness and who thinks he can preach to all and sundry. And as for his knowledge of the criminal laws and working of the Government...his family background does not seem to have enlightened him much as I know a bit about these things myself.

Sorry! ... his rank or whatever does not impress me much as it is these liberal phonies who have brought our nation to such a pass..

Regardless, as someone much older than us, I think basic respect and decorum in language is warranted? The Indian values we all cherish?

 

[KRAIT]

Agree with @Bang Galore and @doppelganger

One can disagree with JS, but name calling to a senior person like him isn't acceptable.

 

[Omtatsat]

Regardless, as someone much older than us, I think basic respect and decorum in language is warranted? The Indian values we all cherish?

Not my fault. With his condescending and definitive attitude, it is impossible to debate with him.. It is like -- I have said so, and nothing more can be said further. So, the only option left is to rubbish his posts...and for that, a bit of personal adds spice.