Modi and the Two-Nation Theory

[Bang Galore]

The validation of the TNT has little to do with India and Pakistan. It has to do with the quintessential question on whether Muslims and Hindus can exist in a nation with their population sizes by accommodating each other. Abdul Kalam is not the answer to the question that is raised when mosques are defaced or communal riots rage... nor is Pakistan.

Without wading deeply into the issue, wouldn't partition itself be responsible for certain occurrences. Isn't it a bit cussed to then argue that a particular incident proves something when that very something might have been a potential trigger.

The old chicken & the egg bit.........and which came first....

 

[MilSpec]

I have often wondered why TnT gets the kind of mileage it does. The concept of state has never been static, every nation state throughout the history has seen it's boundary changed, spartans, to greeks to India, to china, to Britain all have seen it's geographical aspects changed based on social, religious, political, and racial lines.

What exactly is the relevance of the discourse on Two Nation Theory... If an election, an individual, even a consensus by all intellectuals in the region suggest failure of two nation theory: are the pre Independence segments to merge together to form some super nation, the answer is a flat NO. On the flip side if the two nation theory is vehemently solidified; will it suddenly make Pakistan and Bangladesh more powerful nations? Again a flat no

Two nation theory discussions have been nothing but mere exercise of scoring political brownie points in every platform it has been discussed.All three nation post independence have had exceptional mis-governance and every unfortunate event in the neighboring region is brownie point for justification of an exceptionally poor political decisions made by all three parties during the partition (INC, AIML,and Britain)

 

[SQ8]

Yes around 90 % Pakistanis want Shariah according to several surveys done by Gallup and BBC and others and if you are not sure go ahead do a survey you will know people opinion

You have already lost 8%.. even though the question was not Shariah but you dragged it in anyway. Then you misquoted the survey results, which means you are willing to twist facts.. possibly even religious facts.. that reduces your credibility further.

Here is the survey about Islamization of society.
http://www.gallup.com.pk/Polls/31-05-11.pdf
Contrary to 98%,or 90% it is 67%..

Here is the survey conducted in 2006 when compared with other Muslim countries:
http://media.gallup.com/WorldPoll/PDF/GALLUPMUSLIMSTUDIESIslamandDemocracy030607.pdf

That says 60%.. so clearly you are exaggerating to push your flawed logic across.
Then I would somehow like to see how this survey result has ANYTHING to do with the 98% claim you made for express tribune?

Without wading deeply into the issue, wouldn't partition itself be responsible for certain occurrences. Isn't it a bit cussed to then argue that a particular incident proves something when that very something might have been a potential trigger.

The old chicken & the egg bit.........and which came first....

yeah, because this Chicken would then lead to the reasons for partition and whether that was the Chicken or the egg

 

[MilSpec]

. It has to do with the quintessential question on whether Muslims and Hindus can exist in a nation with their population sizes by accommodating each other. Abdul Kalam is not the answer to the question that is raised when mosques are defaced or communal riots rage... nor is Pakistan.

It is a question that relates to the state of progress for the entire subcontinent that includes BD.

Do you see as a populace how mis-governance is a given. The fact that we have to ponder over the question whether hindus and muslims can exist together, says that we cannot contemplate a state where freedom of religion is personal freedom. State ensures safety and equality to all.... the premise of the question itself is the failure of the state.

 

[SQ8]

exceptional mis-governance and every unfortunate event in the neighboring region is brownie point for justification of an exceptionally poor political decisions made by all three parties during the partition (INC, AIML,and Britain)

Ironically, (from what I can discern) the formative intent of all the political movements.. from 1857 onwards was to provide better governance through the representation of the populous.

 

[Zarvan]

You have already lost 8%.. even though the question was not Shariah but you dragged it in anyway. Then you misquoted the survey results, which means you are willing to twist facts.. possibly even religious facts.. that reduces your credibility further.

Here is the survey about Islamization of society.
http://www.gallup.com.pk/Polls/31-05-11.pdf
Contrary to 98%,or 90% it is 67%..

Here is the survey conducted in 2006 when compared with other Muslim countries:
http://media.gallup.com/WorldPoll/PDF/GALLUPMUSLIMSTUDIESIslamandDemocracy030607.pdf

That says 60%.. so clearly you are exaggerating to push your flawed logic across.
Then I would somehow like to see how this survey result has ANYTHING to do with the 98% claim you made for express tribune?



yeah, because this Chicken would then lead to the reasons for partition and whether that was the Chicken or the egg

Mr go ahead 60 % survey is quite old latest surveys one say 83 % one say 90 % and few even more Mr these liberal ............ are not approved by even 2 % of population Mr I know public and anger is increasing so much I thought many people who were not even much religious suggesting some painful deaths for liberal class like on lady lawyer and others like her you want to live in denial your choice but you will see things coming really soon and what Modi is doing he will make sure he indirectly approves all the points Jinah made in his speech in 1940

 

[Secur]

Yes around 90 % Pakistanis want Shariah according to several surveys done by Gallup and BBC and others and if you are not sure go ahead do a survey you will know people opinion

So , we believe the surveys from the infidels when it is convenient ? No Jewish media accusation here ?

I thought many people who were not even much religious suggesting some painful deaths for liberal class like on lady lawyer and others

What drugs are we on , today ?

 

[SQ8]

Do you see as a populace how mis-governance is a given. The fact that we have to ponder over the question whether hindus and muslims can exist together, says that we cannot contemplate a state where freedom of religion is personal freedom. State ensures safety and equality to all.... the premise of the question itself is the failure of the state.

We cannot, because quite simply our nations are for one burdened with huge populations which coupled with a lack of education and exposure leaves little room for true change in opinion and attitude. 1.2 billion in India, 180 million in Pakistan.. another 154 million in BD.. for each of those states.. the enormity of providing governance that is acceptable to the entire population in terms of their social requirements is something we still have not understood.

By contrast, the Scandinavian countries we consider role models for governance have populations that some of our smallest cities surpass easily.

China has the only comparable population and we all know the system of governance that holds things together there.. is that perhaps the only solution here as well?

 

[MilSpec]

Ironically, (from what I can discern) the formative intent of all the political movements.. from 1857 onwards was to provide better governance through the representation of the populous.

Oh then we have miserable failed throughout the history and continue to fail to do so today.... INC had the Gandhi's and Nehru's, AIML had the Jinnahs... and we have stuck to the same model till date with the slight frosting of policy jargon.... Before kings were born, now they are created, promoted, nurtured and packaged to the nations as choices of messiah's for our problems.

 

[SQ8]

Mr go ahead 60 % survey is quite old latest surveys one say 83 % one say 90 % and few even more Mr these liberal ............ are not approved by even 2 % of population Mr I know public and anger is increasing so much I thought many people who were not even much religious suggesting some painful deaths for liberal class like on lady lawyer and others like her you want to live in denial your choice but you will see things coming really soon and what Modi is doing he will make sure he indirectly approves all the points Jinah made in his speech in 1940

Mr is written Mr.
And what do you know of public? or Jinnah or even Islam?
You are someone who copy pastes sources on religion and discourses.. and now accept one lady lawyer as an example of truth?

In other words, tomorrow if one person comes to you accusing an innocent person of murder who you will kill the innocent? Is that the sort of human being or Muslim you are? That without research or study you accept everything or form opinions?

So , we believe the surveys from the infidels when it is convenient ? No Jewish media accusation here ?

Nope, hypocrisy at its best.

 

[Zarvan]

So , we believe the surveys from the infidels when it is convenient ? No Jewish media accusation here ?



What drugs are we on , today ?

Mr is written Mr.
And what do you know of public? or Jinnah or even Islam?
You are someone who copy pastes sources on religion and discourses.. and now accept one lady lawyer as an example of truth?

In other words, tomorrow if one person comes to you accusing an innocent person of murder who you will kill the innocent? Is that the sort of human being or Muslim you are? That without research or study you accept everything or form opinions?



Nope, hypocrisy at its best.

I never said that Mr first know what my opinions and if you want to discuss Islam start a thread I am ready to answer any question Sir these liberals will get treatment by people really soon either most would run away or they will face the music but first this media will fall the season of those who were damaging Islam and Muslims in Pakistan their down fall has just began just wait and watch Sir you want to discuss further please start a thread I would answer everything

 

[SQ8]

Oh then we have miserable failed throughout the history and continue to fail to do so today.... INC had the Gandhi's and Nehru's, AIML had the Jinnahs... and we have stuck to the same model till date with the slight frosting of policy jargon.... Before kings were born, now they are created, promoted, nurtured and packaged to the nations as choices of messiah's for our problems.

Well if you really look into history.. the INC was the first.. where everyone thought they have a platform to govern Indians.. then it came to pass that Muslims saw they could not be governed effectively by the INC.. so the AIML comes.. then Jinnah switches to that...and so on and so forth.

And now, both India and Pakistan have more than ten political parties as such.. each promising the best governance.
By contrast, the oldest democracies such as the US and the UK have essentially two parties. That should tell you exactly how well we've carried democracy and "by the people, for the people" along.

 

[MilSpec]

We cannot, because quite simply our nations are for one burdened with huge populations which coupled with a lack of education and exposure leaves little room for true change in opinion and attitude. 1.2 billion in India, 180 million in Pakistan.. another 154 million in BD.. for each of those states.. the enormity of providing governance that is acceptable to the entire population in terms of their social requirements is something we still have not understood.

By contrast, the Scandinavian countries we consider role models for governance have populations that some of our smallest cities surpass easily.

China has the only comparable population and we all know the system of governance that holds things together there.. is that perhaps the only solution here as well?

Solution or study of it is beyond my intellectual domain, But I can spot a turd when I see it, and the what we have had throughout our modern history is fanboyism. And that is the real turd in schema as we accept state failures and then decide to solve the effects of the failure.

Hindus and muslims are two different nations and cannot live together... so lets divide them in in two states so they can live in peace. How come they lived in peace under the british, or the Mughals ? because the state did not give a **** about petty differences of the people. thats how they lived together thats how they learned to live together.

 

[SQ8]

I never said that Mr first know what my opinions and if you want to discuss Islam start a thread I am ready to answer any question Sir these liberals will get treatment by people really soon either most would run away or they will face the music but first this media will fall the season of those who were damaging Islam and Muslims in Pakistan their down fall has just began just wait and watch Sir you want to discuss further please start a thread I would answer everything

By whom? who will provide them treatment. I have multiple discussions with you to find out that you have nothing to offer other than copy paste. You cant even give basic correct statistics right and base your claims on hearsay. What can you offer on Quran and Sunnah that we havent seen and most of us rejected as false understanding?

Hindus and muslims are two different nations and cannot live together... so lets divide them in in two states so they can live in peace. How come they lived in peace under the british, or the Mughals ? because the state did not give a **** about petty differences of the people. thats how they lived together thats how they learned to live together.

Perhaps(and rather sadly), the state then simply told them to do what they were told or face the gallows. they all got along fine then.

 

[Zarvan]

By whom? who will provide them treatment. I have multiple discussions with you to find out that you have nothing to offer other than copy paste. You cant even give basic correct statistics right and base your claims on hearsay. What can you offer on Quran and Sunnah that we havent seen and most of us rejected as false understanding?



Perhaps(and rather sadly), the state then simply told them to do what they were told or face the gallows. they all got along fine then.

I give a dam about your rejection Mr and so called copy paste most of the time it has answer to your questions but as don't want to accept the truth and answer you start sorry but crying that it is copy past that is your problem Sir not mine Mr and things which are in Quran in Sunnah or in light of Quran and Sunnah that is what I post but if you want to run away like some liberals do by using indirect words like Mullah and other basically they want to abuse Islam are afraid to do directly so they come up with indirect words and terms seen this drama for quite some time sir

Solution or study of it is beyond my intellectual domain, But I can spot a turd when I see it, and the what we have had throughout our modern history is fanboyism. And that is the real turd in schema as we accept state failures and then decide to solve the effects of the failure.

Hindus and muslims are two different nations and cannot live together... so lets divide them in in two states so they can live in peace. How come they lived in peace under the british, or the Mughals ? because the state did not give a **** about petty differences of the people. thats how they lived together thats how they learned to live together.

They lived peacefully under British you gotta be kidding they never lived much peacefully as you are trying to portray Sir