Model Islamic State

[Unbeliever]

I guess postponing the barbaric whipping of an innocent women has to be considered progress?

“Among Muslims scholars we are not happy with the way the sentence has been meted out,” Mr. Pawancheek said. “But no one is questioning the law.”

Of course no one is questioning the law.. because questioning authorities is very unislamic... unlike brutally beating people for consuming a beverage..

 

[Tango25]

In my humble opinion, Pakistan should stop trying to become a model Islamic state.

 

[dabong1]

Any of the nations that have a free education and free health for all the peoples in on the line of an islamic state.......the nordic countries including the UK are probaly more islamic then the islamic countries mentioned.

In my opinion there is not a single islamic nation that follows the ideals of islam that exist today.

 

[Tango25]

^But the Nordic states are more or less atheist. The percentage of religious adherents is in single digits.

 

[Peshwa]

First off let me clarify my views.....I feel religion and state should be seperated....

Keeping my views aside, I would consider Iran to be a model Islamic state.....although it is quite theocratic at times and some bad leadership has really messed up Iran's image, I feel that Iranian people have a good combination of a democracy....have valued science as much as religion and have been able to sustain their economy inspite of a lot of sanctions.....

I feel the Iranians as a race are very dynamic people and from the ones I have met are very open minded with respect to religion......

My reason for choosing Iran as the beacon of a true Islamic state is.....that at the time of the Prophet, when Islam came into existence, it was a highly progressive religion....way ahead of its time with equal emphasis on religion, science, womens rights etc.....
However somewhere along the way it lost its way and its interpretation got muddied by people trying to use it to their advantage......
So a true Islamic State should embody the same principles that the religion upheld when it was created.

My opinion and open to debate.....

 

[asaeed]

Have to agree with dabong1,in a country where no one goes hungry or without shelter and is supported through the proceeds of those that contribute through(TAX/ZAKAT) can truly be claim the ideals of an islamic state i.e UK

 

[Peshwa]

Let me pose a question here.....

Why isnt Islam open to interpretation??

I mean religion has to be practical.....eg...Hindusim in many of its customs is quite outdated I feel...But slowly its moving towards a more modern approach..

So why cant the Islam progress to make it more in tune with modern times?.....
Somewhat like Turkey.....

Do my muslim friends find anything that they feel is an outdated concept in Islam?

Also I hope not to touch a bad nerve since my comments are about religion and I feel practice of religion is a very personal thing!!

 

[MilesTogo]

First off let me clarify my views.....I feel religion and state should be seperated....

Keeping my views aside, I would consider Iran to be a model Islamic state.....although it is quite theocratic at times and some bad leadership has really messed up Iran's image, I feel that Iranian people have a good combination of a democracy....have valued science as much as religion and have been able to sustain their economy inspite of a lot of sanctions.....

I feel the Iranians as a race are very dynamic people and from the ones I have met are very open minded with respect to religion......

My reason for choosing Iran as the beacon of a true Islamic state is.....that at the time of the Prophet, when Islam came into existence, it was a highly progressive religion....way ahead of its time with equal emphasis on religion, science, womens rights etc.....
However somewhere along the way it lost its way and its interpretation got muddied by people trying to use it to their advantage......
So a true Islamic State should embody the same principles that the religion upheld when it was created.

My opinion and open to debate.....

The other reason it qualifies better that Turkey or Malaysia is it has higher Muslim%.

 

[Comet]

Any of the nations that have a free education and free health for all the peoples in on the line of an islamic state.......the nordic countries including the UK are probaly more islamic then the islamic countries mentioned.

In my opinion there is not a single islamic nation that follows the ideals of islam that exist today.

You are correct about the Last Part of your post. No Islamic Nation is actually following Islamic footsteps.

 

[Durran3]

Any of the nations that have a free education and free health for all the peoples in on the line of an islamic state.......the nordic countries including the UK are probaly more islamic then the islamic countries mentioned.

In my opinion there is not a single islamic nation that follows the ideals of islam that exist today.

The Nordic/Scandanavian countries are more than 65% Athiest/Agnostic just so you didn't know!! there is no moral collapse and they are have the highest number of volunteers working around the world in poor countries

 

[Unbeliever]

You are right Durran3.
The also have the hightest percentage of aid given to poor countries and the most extensive welfare/social security system in all the world in those Scandinavian countries. The list goes on and on.



Another point:

the nordic countries including the UK are probaly more islamic then the islamic countries mentioned.

To claim that the UK is a "model Islamic state" is beyond absurd. It has gotten to its free, rich, socially responsible society through democracy, liberalism, science and the oldest constitution in the world.

It is in some respect the very opposite of a "model Islamic state" at least if you don't take the model some forum members have (which is an admirable picture but come on guys is that what the holy texts instruct you to accomplish?) but how it is "demanded" one builds in the Qua'ran (or Hadith not sure sorry) which would be an dictatorial theocratic state under Sha'ria Law.
So yes Iran is a "model" Islamic state, I'm sorry but this hypocrisy about the "real" Islam is really tiresome, because there is obviously no such thing.(the same goes for Christianity)
There are just thousands of different interpretation and sects and the action of the followers of one religion.

A moderate, reformed, well educated Muslim might disregard all the bigotry, the totalitarian elements and the discouragement of critical thinking that are present in the holy texts and then you might get in the direction of a social theocracy or maybe even democracy on its basis, but do you honestly want to claim that this very reformed very modern interpretation that is quite the stretch if one looks at the holy texts is the most prominent one among Muslims today? or even among a sizable minority?


See it was only possible for the west to enter modernity by pushing back religious influence, without that all the modern concepts that you now claim are "more islamic", wouldn't even exist (like democratic socialism).
It sounds like you want to claim that the ultimate core concept of Islam is the Zakat (thats why you claim states with a extensive welfare system are islamic right?), but aren't you distorting a bit here.
What about Dhimmitude, the position/worth of women, homosexuals, Shari'a, imitating Muhammad and so forth..
all these are hard to be discarded don't you agree?

So in all seriousness, which is more "Islamic"
(from a literalistic perspective, which is one of the only objective criteria for "more or less" in accordance with the religion)
Saudi Arabia or homosexuals approving, drinking, legally whoring, pork eating, blaspheming, but strong welfare UK?

 

[dabong1]

^But the Nordic states are more or less atheist. The percentage of religious adherents is in single digits.

The Nordic/Scandanavian countries are more than 65% Athiest/Agnostic just so you didn't know!! there is no moral collapse and they are have the highest number of volunteers working around the world in poor countries

The 65% Athiest/Agnostic figure is untrue......just becauce your not a member of the church does not make you an Athiest.


Well going of the link below it shows that 80.6% of the Finns were members of the church.
Wapedia - Wiki: Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland


At the end of 2008, 72,9% of Swedes belonged to the Church of Sweden (Lutheran), this number has been decreasing by about 1% on a yearly basis for the last two decades.
Sweden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dabong1]

To claim that the UK is a "model Islamic state" is beyond absurd. It has gotten to its free, rich, socially responsible society through democracy, liberalism, science and the oldest constitution in the world.

I think you have failed to understand the point.......what are the core things needed in a "model Islamic state"......free education-health-housing ect.......my point being that the nations that give the above to it people are closer to what islam says then what islamic nations are doing at present.
You fail to mention the power of the church and its infulence on the UK in history.

It is in some respect the very opposite of a "model Islamic state" at least if you don't take the model some forum members have (which is an admirable picture but come on guys is that what the holy texts instruct you to accomplish?) but how it is "demanded" one builds in the Qua'ran (or Hadith not sure sorry) which would be an dictatorial theocratic state under Sha'ria Law.
So yes Iran is a "model" Islamic state, I'm sorry but this hypocrisy about the "real" Islam is really tiresome, because there is obviously no such thing.(the same goes for Christianity)
There are just thousands of different interpretation and sects and the action of the followers of one religion.

A moderate, reformed, well educated Muslim might disregard all the bigotry, the totalitarian elements and the discouragement of critical thinking that are present in the holy texts and then you might get in the direction of a social theocracy or maybe even democracy on its basis, but do you honestly want to claim that this very reformed very modern interpretation that is quite the stretch if one looks at the holy texts is the most prominent one among Muslims today? or even among a sizable minority?


See it was only possible for the west to enter modernity by pushing back religious influence, without that all the modern concepts that you now claim are "more islamic", wouldn't even exist (like democratic socialism).
It sounds like you want to claim that the ultimate core concept of Islam is the Zakat (thats why you claim states with a extensive welfare system are islamic right?), but aren't you distorting a bit here.
What about Dhimmitude, the position/worth of women, homosexuals, Shari'a, imitating Muhammad and so forth..
all these are hard to be discarded don't you agree?

So in all seriousness, which is more "Islamic"
(from a literalistic perspective, which is one of the only objective criteria for "more or less" in accordance with the religion)
Saudi Arabia or homosexuals approving, drinking, legally whoring, pork eating, blaspheming, but strong welfare UK?

Is democracy, liberalism and capitalism not responsible for the killings that have taken place over the last couple of hundred years......millions and millions of people have been killed due to democracy, liberalism and capitalism something non of the wars of faith have come close to.
All the muslim nations follow the ideology of capitalism and non follow islam but somehow islam is to blame for there problems.

 

[s90]

Turkey,Indonesia because they are most democratic and secular.

 

[Patriot]

I would say something along the lines of Turkey but with full religious freedom.Every religion should be paraticed freely and there should be no discrimination among people.Government should provide health care, fair justice etc..I think many people have wrong views about Islamic state.By Islamic state we don't mean a state where girls are flogged etc.It just means a state where people are accountable and fair justice.Economy with islamic values so that the inequality between Poor and rich diminish.