MoD mulls downsizing Rafale contract

[IND151]

Good decision , 46 extra Tejas MK-2 can be ordered

Tejas is LCA while Rafale is MMRCA.

The Rafale has good SEAD capability and decent range, same is not true for Tejas.

On Topic

I don't think this will happen. We have several squads of migs which need to be replaced.

 

[sancho]

I think the Politics is there, The Politics might make Rafale take appropriate steps.....they must be followed.

Well I am pretty interested in understanding what our new government actually wants in the defence field, which is kind of hard, when there is no proper DM, the PM is far more silent then earlier expected and the current stop gap minister is changing his statements depending on which ministry he represent at that moment.
When we know what they actually have in mind, we know what direction MMRCA might take, but I don't see a reduction happening. Either they go for 1 of the 2 MMRCAs or kill the whole competition for the silly idea we can develop such capabilities on our own.

 

[amitkriit]

The only outcome we know is your intelligence level which is lower then that of a household aquarium fish.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/History/1965War/PDF/1965Chapter09.pdf
your own site claims to have more losses then PAF.
its really early in the morning and i need to sleep or else i would have slapped you with hard dose of anti delusional pills.

Most of the Indian aircraft were lost during initial phases of war on ground. IAF maintained complete supremacy over the enemy air space. We know the outcome don't we?

 

[danger007]

F-16 has many models and F-16 Block 52 is far better than Rafale and also Euro Fighter is far better than Rafale Mr hte moment you chose Rafale it was clear to me that something big is happening behind the scenes

oh please stop your crap... blk 52??? we rejected blk 60 which I'd superior to blk 52 .... Please do meditation daily bro..

 

[Gessler]

The only outcome we know is your intelligence level which is lower then that of a household aquarium fish.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/History/1965War/PDF/1965Chapter09.pdf
your own site claims to have more losses then PAF.
its really early in the morning and i need to sleep or else i would have slapped you with hard dose of anti delusional pills.

Who needs anti-delusional medication is you. Ofcourse everyone knows IAF took more losses, but what some
people choose to ignore is that it was IAF that established air superiority over Pak skies, not the other way round.

Now, IAF definitely did not have any major technological advantage over PAF then, infact PAF was better-equipped
in many aspects, so losses are understandable due to large numbers of sorties flown over enemy territory. PAF, on
the other hand, flew some sorties over India during the opening stages but after IAF came around, PAF's flying was
very limited, with no. of sorties falling by the day, while IAF's increased.

Obviously you didn't know what it means when he said "defender's advantage" did you? Despicable fool...and
talks about us being delusional LOL. By the way, what happened to the 100-odd aircraft you received from your
friends during the war? Most of them never returned to their owners, who shot them down?

 

[GORKHALI]

Great News,I always against this expensive huge orders.As per me IAF should order Rafale,but it should not be more than 4SQNs that is 72+14(war reserve=86 . We need to invest more for LCA mk1 and Mk2 production and development.

 

[Sergi]

You can't entirely rule out the possibility. If Modi is pushing Jaitley to focus on LCA Mk2 and is trying to get more numbers, then we may, and I am just saying may, change the numbers.

There are many countries that rely on a heavy-light combination and don't essentially depend on medium class.

Either way, It is good for us.

Everything is possible I agree.
But lets not forget one of the reasons of MMRCA. It was to boost the aviation industry as much as to help Sqd numbers.
Down sizing order will be lesser value for money. I am expectting increse in order over 126 so as to increase the off-shelf numbers.
Like it or not LCA MK-2 is still not in prototype. So placing IAF's operational strength on that will not be a wise decision at all.
Mark-2 will come but not before 2017. And say 2020 to be in decent numbers and well establised production line if everything goes right.
This delay ( 2 years ) will cause IAF to buy more MKIs till Rafale form decent numbers.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Most of the Indian aircraft were lost during initial phases of war on ground. IAF maintained complete supremacy over the enemy air space. We know the outcome don't we?

Only if you stop over dosing yourself with delusional lado your sense will come to reality. Complete air supremacy? Do make a note in your pink bahrat raksak diary that outnumbering a small fleet does not count as "complete" air supremacy. Inorder to maintain a complete air supremacy over Enemy's air space is when you have successfully annihilated enemy threats that would challenge your "air supremacy" which was not the case with IAF. Im realy amused at these Bharat raksakies that keep pouring out of their factories.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Who needs anti-delusional medication is you.

I bet my cat can come with a better comeback.

Ofcourse everyone knows IAF took more losses, but what some
people choose to ignore is that it was IAF that established air superiority over Pak skies, not the other way round.

Did you ever ask yourself in the mirror how stupid of a statement you have passed? I bet the mirror will shatter from the level of your stupidity. When you are participating in educated discussions try to leave your ego behind and your delusional ladoos in your fridge because at the end of the day you are just going to look dumb. So how did IAF managed to maintain air superiority over PAF when IAF was losing more planes in skies and did not even completely destroy a single freakin PAF air base.
Lol our dozen B-57 inflicted more damage to IAF bases then what 400+ IAF planes could do to PAF bases. and only 1 was lost to enemy fire.

Now, IAF definitely did not have any major technological advantage over PAF then, infact PAF was better-equipped
in many aspects, so losses are understandable due to large numbers of sorties flown over enemy territory. PAF, on
the other hand, flew some sorties over India during the opening stages but after IAF came around, PAF's flying was
very limited, with no. of sorties falling by the day, while IAF's increased.

Did your uncle tell you that story?
In 1965 PAF mainly had F-86 which were 1st generation fighters compared to IAF which had superior Hunters Gnats and mystere iv and all three were 2nd generation and if we count Mig-21 which were 3rd generation but its another story that they never saw any action because PAF never let them fly. Just try to comprehend this fact, British air force replaced F-86 with superior Hunters! Talk with facts then with your rear end.

Obviously you didn't know what it means when he said "defender's advantage" did you? Despicable fool...and
talks about us being delusional LOL. By the way, what happened to the 100-odd aircraft you received from your
friends during the war? Most of them never returned to their owners, who shot them down?

100? Did that figure just come out of your brain fart?

Who needs anti-delusional medication is you. Ofcourse everyone knows IAF took more losses, but what some
people choose to ignore is that it was IAF that established air superiority over Pak skies, not the other way round.

Now, IAF definitely did not have any major technological advantage over PAF then, infact PAF was better-equipped
in many aspects, so losses are understandable due to large numbers of sorties flown over enemy territory. PAF, on
the other hand, flew some sorties over India during the opening stages but after IAF came around, PAF's flying was
very limited, with no. of sorties falling by the day, while IAF's increased.

Obviously you didn't know what it means when he said "defender's advantage" did you? Despicable fool...and
talks about us being delusional LOL. By the way, what happened to the 100-odd aircraft you received from your
friends during the war? Most of them never returned to their owners, who shot them down?

I bet my cat can come with a better comeback.

Did you ever ask yourself in the mirror how stupid of a statement you have passed? I bet the mirror will shatter from the level of your stupidity. When you are participating in educated discussions try to leave your ego behind and your delusional ladoos in your fridge because at the end of the day you are just going to look dumb. So how did IAF managed to maintain air superiority over PAF when IAF was losing more planes in skies and did not even completely destroy a single freakin PAF air base.
Lol in 65 our dozen B-57 inflicted more damage to IAF bases then what 400+ IAF planes could do to PAF bases. and only 1 was lost to enemy fire. as for your IAF air superiority they could not even destroy lone F-86 squadron in east wing even with Su-7 Mig-21 hunters and gnats. IAF could not even destroy east wing in 1965 so eat that.


Did your uncle tell you that story?
In 1965 PAF mainly had F-86 which were 1st generation fighters compared to IAF which had superior Hunters Gnats and mystere iv and all three were 2nd generation and if we count Mig-21 which were 3rd generation but its another story that they never saw any action because PAF never let them fly. Just try to comprehend this fact, British air force replaced F-86 with superior Hunters! Talk with facts then with your rear end.

100? Did that figure just come out of your brain fart?

 

[Bang Galore]

The French have always been a problem to deal with, regardless of the quality of their stuff. This goes both for the defence deals as well civilian nuclear reactors. Very good products but a price tag that is almost ridiculous. Think we need to deal with the French very warily.

I never did like the idea of only going in only for the Rafales. Too expensive to buy, equally expensive to run (would have been true of the EF too). Its why I have always been in favour of splitting the order, preferably with the Gripen but maybe also with the SH. We need leverage of another option to keep the French from ripping us off

 

[Gessler]

I bet my cat can come with a better comeback.

Then bring your cat here because you are just making moot points.

Did you ever ask yourself in the mirror how stupid of a statement you have passed? I bet the mirror will shatter from the level of your stupidity. When you are participating in educated discussions try to leave your ego behind and your delusional ladoos in your fridge because at the end of the day you are just going to look dumb. So how did IAF managed to maintain air superiority over PAF when IAF was losing more planes in skies and did not even completely destroy a single freakin PAF air base.
Lol our dozen B-57 inflicted more damage to IAF bases then what 400+ IAF planes could do to PAF bases. and only 1 was lost to enemy fire.

Is that an excuse for losing the war in all 3 theaters - on ground, air & sea?

Did your uncle tell you that story?
In 1965 PAF mainly had F-86 which were 1st generation fighters compared to IAF which had superior Hunters Gnats

LOL Huntur & Gnat were subsonic aircraft that were primarily tasked for ground-attack missions in both 1965 and
1971 wars, as were Maruts. While F-86 was a transonic air superiority platform even at that day. It's mostly a story of
apples & oranges.

and mystere iv and all three were 2nd generation

Mystere IV was bought in 1954 and most of them were phased out by the time '71 war happened, Only small
numbers remained and the fleet was completely out of service by 1973. And oh, Mystere IV was a first-generation
jet just like F-86, which idiot told you they are 2nd generation?

First-generation jet fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and if we count Mig-21 which were 3rd generation

Early MiG-21s (which is what IAF got then) were considered 2nd generation, it were models that came much
later (like BIS version) which could be termed 3rd gen. You have the least possible information about any historic
aircraft or war, it is funny to see such people, especially from the losing side of the war, commenting about
history they know nothing about.

BTW, in all your fanboyish urges to prove Pak won the war while everyone knows it didn't, you have
comfortably forgotten about your own "ace plane" of the time - PAF's F-104 Starfighter.
And these PAF planes were equipped with well-proven AIM-9 Sidewinders while the only AAM in IAF service
at the time was the pitiful K-13, a poor copy of AIM-9 which was so useless that it was largely sidelined after the war.

but its another story that they never saw any action because PAF never let them fly.

Ofcourse, although the more apt way to put it would be : MiG-21s thrashed your best plane at the time.

MiG-21 versus F-104 Starfighter | Wing Commander CIC

Kid, go learn some history.

Everytime your best plane (F-104) met our best (MiG-21), Fishbed owned Starfighter's ***. And that, despite the
US plane having superior, more proven & matured armament.

Just try to comprehend this fact, British air force replaced F-86 with superior Hunters!

In what role? And with what armament & operating costs in mind?

Talk with facts then with your rear end.

Like claiming Mystere IV as a second-generation jet fighter?

100? Did that figure just come out of your brain fart?

Whole 1971 war came because Pak military was brain farting in a similar way as you are doing now.

--

On topic, a French industry insider & journalist has clarified that the news of Rafale contract downsizing is BS.

The contract numbers stay the same - 126 aircraft. It might even go up to 189 or something after a while, but
no downsizing is there.

 

[sancho]

I never did like the idea of only going in only for the Rafales. Too expensive to buy, equally expensive to run (would have been true of the EF too). Its why I have always been in favour of splitting the order, preferably with the Gripen but maybe also with the SH.

That's however would not make sense, since more different types of fighters with different loigistics makes operational costs higher not lower. Just as lower unit numbers increases the unit costs, therefore splitting the deal would increase the procurement and operational costs!

 

[Koovie]

Stop believing each and every article written by some dumbass highly speculative journo with no clue about the matter and no good sources.....

 

[pakdefender]

isn't mki enough?

if mki were good enough why india ordered rafale instead ? why not more mkis in the first place

indian arms procurement is all over the place , the seller just see india as some kind of cow with cash aka cash cow

 

[Gessler]

3rd largest economy in the world ...?

We are third largest economy that's a fact, not the third richest country.

But as usual you are more obsessed with India than about your own pathetic condition. You need to get a life
and atleast try to stop drones from killing your people like they're some bugs.

Your obsession about India is the reason why you will forever remain "the country with the begging bowl".