MMRCA Tamasha was Political: Ex IAF Official

[Imran Khan]

state of the art f-16??
go and check the specs of ur f-16's
some are block 52 and the rest are being upgraded to block 40 standards and total 63 are there,lol
rafale and pakfa will come with aesa and su-30mki is also being upgraded to super sukhoi standard.
for ur f-16 upgraded mirage 2000 and new mig-29k and kub are probably an overkill.
don't boast about ur tiny airforce here

do you even read my post? lolz use your brain sir 20 years before in 1993 it was brand new state of the art . you need to stop bollywood and come in real world this tinny air force shot dead indian fighter more then anyone in past if you have any history book kiddo

 

[duhastmish]

yes asusual man pakistan will pakistan was pakistan not are you god ? in 2007 pakistan was 2nd growing economy of asia . we don't know whats in future please come out from pak phobia . 20 years before we were enjoying brand now F-16s 2nd nation in asia have these state of the art jets do you forget ? i even can't say 5 years after let 20 years . are not we bashing abut our god damn economy few years before ? same apply on india where is now super sonic speed economy ? pakistan will and sure have what she need to defend in future you have not to worry .


we are not talking abut whom and why here . we are talking abut idea of MMCA and deal itself why you indians can't post 5 posts without mention pak-chin ? mmrca is for war anybody whom attack india and pakistan is the one whom fight wars with india more then any other nation .

Because these birds are for war and about war or defence India is alla about pak china. Now for Pakistan India doesn't need these fighter India have more than required to defend. And yeh Pakistan have enough to defend but no they don't have close to required for attack.
Btw India is way less involved in war than pak. Infact pak problem is stepping in others shyt for no reason. And end up paying.
Pak economy was never computer or it or manufacturing based as for agriculture they are still doing much better than India.
Now about with leaving pak out of any debate. I love Pakistan May be second love after India.

 

[sancho]

well as we don't know ? since day one it was bad idea but your guys here ranting us day night if we say so now your own officers saying it .

He didn't said it's a bad idea, he said the decison to go for a competition was a political one and not one of IAF, which prefered additional M2Ks for fast integration. That is logical from their point of view, but not the best for India and MoD has to look at more than just IAFs wishes.

 

[he-man]

do you even read my post? lolz use your brain sir 20 years before in 1993 it was brand new state of the art . you need to stop bollywood and come in real world this tinny air force shot dead indian fighter more then anyone in past if you have any history book kiddo

ya and which calendar do u follow??
its 2013 now and not 1993!!
ur best fighter is f-16 block 52 and it is just equivalent to new mig-29k and kub standard.
if u had block 60 with apg-80 aesa i would be worried but u will never get it...................so sorry
now don't start crying

 

[Imran Khan]

He didn't said it's a bad idea, he said the decison to go for a competition was a political one and not one of IAF, which prefered additional M2Ks for fast integration. That is logical from their point of view, but not the best for India and MoD has to look at more than just IAFs wishes.

my dear this what we are saying but that time your team bash us and laugh us . i even read on some forum its stupid idea . are not we all tired of this deal ask yourself . this was political game and remain politics its even effected the modernization plan of IAF .

ya and which calendar do u follow??
its 2013 now and not 1993!!
ur best fighter is f-16 block 52 and it is just equivalent to new mig-29k and kub standard.
if u had block 60 with apg-69 aesa i would be worried but u will never get it...................so sorry
now don't start crying

i know both fighters more then you and please leave me alone i am not what you are looking for go work your jotishi job and say to people what will happen in future . bye

 

[sancho]

Let's scrap this stupid deal go for pakfa or order more su30 for now get as many Tejas you can and spend time and energy on next amca with involvement from private industry lobby

Came across a long list friend who fly jaguar for IAF at jam nagar . He is pissed at whole concept of twin pilot. The split decision is just not worth it he said. And of course they would prefer American hardware but agree it's not in country's interest.

Often discussed,

- the aim is for medium class fighters, with different weapon and tech capabilities that what MKI or any other Russian fighter would provide, that's why neither Pak Fa, additional MKIs, let alone a not existing Mig 35 would be a solution

- Tejas is not ready, that is the reason we need foreign fighters and performance wise it's far inferior

- AMCA according to ADA/DRDO plans is a silly pipedream


You mean he is against twin seaters? MMRCA are not meant to be twin seaters, not even as a major part. The squadron should have 18 fighters, normally with 16 x single and 2 x twin seaters, although with Rafales strike performance the some more twin seaters would be a good idea per squad.

 

[duhastmish]

do you even read my post? lolz use your brain sir 20 years before in 1993 it was brand new state of the art . you need to stop bollywood and come in real world this tinny air force shot dead indian fighter more then anyone in past if you have any history book kiddo

That was because of pilots. Pakistan never had better machine than India. Most India pilots (retired ) give full respect to their Pakistani counterpart who were much better trained due to lot of involvement in these exercise. Out of all I think you Imran knew it better.

Those f16 were in little number compared to upgraded migs.

Doctrine followed was different : man behind machine compared to machine for the man.

 

[he-man]

my dear this what we are saying but that time your team bash us and laugh us . i even read on some forum its stupid idea . are not we all tired of this deal ask yourself . this was political game and remain politics its even effected the modernization plan of IAF .


i know both fighters more then you and please leave me alone i am not what you are looking for go work your jotishi job and say to people what will happen in future . bye

if u had known more u would have placed ur point of view.
but u didn't

 

[Manvantaratruti]

u are right.yashwant sinha was against this deal and he levelled charges of kickbacks too.
next govt most probably will be nda so french are actually playing with fire,who knows what will happen to deal once new govt comes??
on a diff topic i think giving contract to reliance will not be a bad thing at all,,,,at least they have the money and muscle to enter the game and challenge hal monopoly!!

It would be a bad idea to give this contract to Reliance. There is nothing to indicate they either have the will or the capability to challenge HAL.

Rafael is trying to defraud its way out of Transferring Technology. France has done it before and knows it an get away with such tactics.

Russians have already shown the world how easy it is to Con the Indian Navy. Do not expect other nations and defense contractors to think otherwise.

A lost reputation is hard to rebuild.

 

[he-man]

first of all its rafale not rafael
secondly i disagree,,,,reliance can easily manage this,it has huge amount of money and if required hal can assist them in that

 

[duhastmish]

Often discussed,

- the aim is for medium class fighters, with different weapon and tech capabilities that what MKI or any other Russian fighter would provide, that's why neither Pak Fa, additional MKIs, let alone a not existing Mig 35 would be a solution

- Tejas is not ready, that is the reason we need foreign fighters and performance wise it's far inferior

- AMCA according to ADA/DRDO plans is a silly pipedream


You mean he is against twin seaters? MMRCA are not meant to be twin seaters, not even as a major part. The squadron should have 18 fighters, normally with 16 x single and 2 x twin seaters, although with Rafales strike performance the some more twin seaters would be a good idea per squad.

He told me most political and expat prefer twin pilot due to fatigue issue but with computerised control you would prefer single decider . Most pilot want more training and exercises.
Even fgfa a advance gen fighter with only 20 % manual factor u want 2 pilots. Not required.

 

[he-man]

this medium class vs heavy class it total bullshit
the fact is rafale has the best avionics in all the 4.5 gen fighters and we wanted a very potent platform.
and aditionally it has a very good air-to-ground mode which none of our other fighters have and with limited carrying capacity of pakfa we cannot rely on it for this.

 

[duhastmish]

first of all its rafale not rafael
secondly i disagree,,,,reliance can easily manage this,it has huge amount of money and if required hal can assist them in that

Also with reliance you can get many under the table deals done from foreign seller. Also accountability.

 

[he-man]

yes 2 seat is not req,at least not for pakfa and it will never materialize.
times have changed but rafale is not a 5 th gen but a 4.5 gen so 2 pilots maybe good for it

yes but foolish govt won't agree
this deal will push reliance into aviation industry and i am certain they will do way better job than hal

 

[sancho]

my dear this what we are saying but that time your team bash us and laugh us . i even read on some forum its stupid idea . are not we all tired of this deal ask yourself . this was political game and remain politics its even effected the modernization plan of IAF

Wrong, if it would had been a purely political game, we would have chosen a US fighter, since that is the option with the biggest political effect., the selection of the Rafale was even done by IAF itsef!
All that was political, was the decision not just to take additional M2Ks, but use the advantage of the moment (US moving away from just selling arms and techs to Pakistan and being open to critical changes towards India) and gaining way more than "just" new fighters. GoI/MoD aimed on industrial benefits, besides the requirements of IAF and that's what a competition got us. It is hard to deny the huge effect this competition already got India, by getting so many foreing companies to tie up with Indian counterparts, to fullfil possible offsets and today we have Boeing, EADS, SAAB, LM, Dassault...diverting more and more defence and civil aero production to India. If we just had bought M2Ks all this would never had happened and the big industrial bonus is still to come, the offsets and technical benefits we gain through the Rafale deal!

The whole process was too long for sure, but GoI/MoD clearly acted with the long term benefits in mind and made the right decision. That the air force wants the fighters as soon as possible is nothing surprising, especially since it's not in their hand anymore. They have decided for a fighter and now needs to wait till the negotiations are done.
So no matter if we forumers like the delays or not, for India the whole point of the competition is getting as much as possible and therfor you have to negotiate as hard as possible for every bit of advantage.