MLRS - Effective counter to SU-30MKI + Brahmos combination

[Ultima Thule]

Sir you are more ignorant than I initially thought. And over that you don't know how to debate. You need to educate yourself about radar and their capabilities. Non of your radars are meant to track supersonic threats And yes sir that includes AN/TPS - 77.

Yeah yeah! Only Indian radar can track supersonic target and Pakistani radars can't what bogus logic you have Mr do research than come here for troll those aren't pd radars but AESA radars on radar its exhaust emission and ram intake/leading edge can easily detect by radar, i read somewhere on the net forget the article where it is that SR-71 lit by 50's 60's era radars because of it excess IR signature 300 miles away on returning to USA but modren radars

 

[CriticalThought]

Do you realize how ineffective an MLRS would be in it's current form as an MDS?

Look at CRIT, or APKWS - IF you were to add an IR seeker to the rocket, with a proximity fuse, your MLRS theory, could actually fly.

As I said earlier, the OP leaves many things undiscussed. The idea isn't to present a complete system specification, rather to discuss the core concept of using cheap and dumb rockets as a last measure. The system doesn't operate to the exclusion of regular missile defence systems, but provides one more layer of protection. The trajectory of a super/hypersonic missile can be easily predicted, allowing timely intercept by even dumb rockets. This isn't a very difficult concept to grasp.

You can detect them when you have a credible BMD. A sophisticated radar array and a sat network that can pin point each and every path. Also, an advanced seeker tech industry.

Do you think Russians will induct a system that can be easily intercepted by a mere MLRS? Let alone a guided rockets. If Missile defence systems were that simple, then why most countries struggle with developing one?

I have already stated my assumptions. No need to revisit them again and again.

Everything the Russians induct isn't undefeatable. And every expensive system doesn't necessarily need an equally expensive counter-measure. But it's OK, since you guys have invested so much, please hold on to your presumptions.

Russian Pantsir-S1 can neutralize supersonic cruise missile and Pakistan can get this,
on the other hand this MLRS launchers can be targeted by standoff weapons and may not work against MKIs.

The idea is only for the Brahmos, not other threats.

no i know infeasible and idiotic idea and this the @CriticalThought stupid idea not mine

Mind your language and manners. If something can't enter your brain, then it's better to keep quiet about it.

 

[kinsr]

Yeah yeah! Only Indian radar can track supersonic target and Pakistani radars can't what bogus logic you have Mr do research than come here for troll those aren't pd radars but AESA radars on radar its exhaust emission and ram intake/leading edge can easily detect by radar, i read somewhere on the net forget the article where it is that SR-71 lit by 50's 60's era radars because of it excess IR signature 300 miles away on returning to USA but modren radars

Non technical non-sense. Do you even know the difference between Infra Red surveillance and Radar Surveillance.

I ask you which platform you have that can track IR signatures from long distances.

Again if your answer is AESA radar, MPDR, Chinese radar, please don't quote me any further.

 

[Chhatrapati]

I have already stated my assumptions. No need to revisit them again and again.

Everything the Russians induct isn't undefeatable. And every expensive system doesn't necessarily need an equally expensive counter-measure. But it's OK, since you guys have invested so much, please hold on to your presumptions.

You haven't answered any of the queries. I'm not interested in rhetorical answers such as the above.

You are making me revisit the scenario with your statements.

No, the Russians induct something that is at par with US. Not because it's unstoppable. If 'Jugaad' was the thing against Ballistic missiles, then we would be the first one to make cheap alternatives. Mind you there is a lot of countries, who have MLRS including China. How hard it can be for someone to think of shooting it with such a simple weapon?

If you want to fire a bullet at a target, you need to see the target first. In sky, a super/hyper sonic missiles are like a needle in a haystack. How can you shoot a moving target traveling nearly three times the speed of sound.

Second issue, if you are planning to rain MLRS, how about the collateral damage? If the missile is going to hit say, your fuel storage. How do you plan to use MLRS.

 

[Zarvan]

Somebody please explain what is link between MLRS and SU 30 ?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Non technical non-sense. Do you even know the difference between Infra Red surveillance and Radar Surveillance.

I ask you which platform you have that can track IR signatures from long distances.

Again if your answer is AESA radar, MPDR, Chinese radar, please don't quote me any further.

yeah yeah whatever you think i told do research before you b@rk here, India have a weapons that out of this universe, invincible, unstoppable now happy, where as pakistan and china weapons are crap and junk
you asked how can it track its easily track by long range radars (its not a stealth missile)
you come here for troll and have no logic and commonsense, you are reported for your trolling
and do research on radars than com here to bark

Mind your language and manners. If something can't enter your brain, then it's better to keep quiet about it.

with due respect sir this is not idea but just false assumptions and wishful thinking, main thing you are trying to intercept guided missile with a unguided roket built for totally different purpose @CriticalThought you have no logic and commonsense its a your unfeasible assumptions and wishful thinking

 

[Blue Marlin]

in my opinion the mk's and the brahmos should not be to much of a problem.
why?
firstly the mki, its a huge aircraft would likely be visible on pakistani awacs

But the brahmos has a range of 600km? no need to fly the mki that close to pakistan.
the mki would need to provide midcourse updates.
gps/glonass? its the 1st century most likely theres jammers jamming such connectivity.
also we dont know how powerful and accurate the onboard seeker is, so it may be relegated to attacks on large bases with a greater probability of hitting something of value.

also last but not least the missile itself its huge and if it want to travel at the 600km+ it would need to take a hi-hi-lo approach. this gives ample time for surveillance radars to spot and track. then leave it to the hq-16/spada to take it down. heck with the amount of heat from the exhaust and the friction they produce i wont be surprised if it sets of ir satellites then its f*cked.

HQ9 is an air defence system, so it is understandable that it can target high alt jets, as well as low alt CM's. But what baffles me, is how can an MLRS do that.

i ignored the mrls bit and just thought mki+mki counters

 

[POPEYE-Sailor]

Somebody please explain what is link between MLRS and SU 30 ?

Really bro i m also finding connection with MRLS and su 30.. Pointless discussion still going on ..!!

 

[Chhatrapati]

also we dont know how powerful and accurate the onboard seeker is, so it may be relegated to attacks on large bases with a greater probability of hitting something of value.

You can see the accuracy.

also last but not least the missile itself its huge and if it want to travel at the 600km+ it would need to take a hi-hi-lo approach. this gives ample time for surveillance radars to spot and track. then leave it to the hq-16/spada to take it down. heck with the amount of heat from the exhaust and the friction they produce i wont be surprised if it sets of ir satellites then its f*cked.

The missile is not designed to travel 600 KM. Since at the time of development India wasn't a signatory of MTCR. Hence the range was reduced to 290KM. Newer version, which is being developed, can travel more than 300KM. It's in development phase.

You can see from the video that the missile travels some 3-4 meters from ground. Pretty difficult for a radar tracking. HQ-16 has a range of 40KM.

Satellite detection of missiles by Pakistan is pretty far fetched.

 

[War Thunder]

The best way to counter Indian military forces is to not get involved in a conflict in the first place, find a way to peacefully coexist and avoid the associated spending levels at both sides. Lots of money will then become available to domestic development, improving e.g. public infrastructure, healthcare and education.

You can't choose peace when war is forced upon you.
And when you don't have the luxury of avoiding a war from being forced upon you, then you can't just peacefully coexist.
Besides what ensures peace is the ability to defend as well as strike the enemy. That's what keeps the enemy away. Not by chanting peace from a position of weakness which only gets exploited...

 

[Blue Marlin]

You can see the accuracy.

these are test fires or a perfect scenario. when was war perfect ?

The missile is not designed to travel 600 KM. Since at the time of development India wasn't a signatory of MTCR. Hence the range was reduced to 290KM. Newer version, which is being developed, can travel more than 300KM. It's in development phase.

You can see from the video that the missile travels some 3-4 meters from ground. Pretty difficult for a radar tracking. HQ-16 has a range of 40KM.

Satellite detection of missiles by Pakistan is pretty far fetched.

I recall the Brahmas being based of the p800 and by default having a range of 600km. the missile was meant for india and would have to be restricted to 290km. being a member of the micr does not give you a pass to have missiles at greater ranges of 290km.
radars won't be a in a ditch but atop and obviously raised. 25km for surface skimming missions is the typical range of detection but the brims would need to come from high altitudes to low altitudes and this is where detection is the greatest. as for satellites, I'm sure the Chinese are capable of Filling the void

 

[Chhatrapati]

I recall the Brahmas being based of the p800 and by default having a range of 600km. the missile was meant for india and would have to be restricted to 290km. being a member of the micr does not give you a pass to have missiles at greater ranges of 290km.

No, MTCR does give permission to develop missiles with ranges higher than 300KM.
It is based on P-800 oniks mainly because of the seeker and the ramjet engine, both similar to the ones used in Oniks.

radars won't be a in a ditch but atop and obviously raised. 25km for surface skimming missions is the typical range of detection but the brims would need to come from high altitudes to low altitudes and this is where detection is the greatest. as for satellites, I'm sure the Chinese are capable of Filling the void

Alright, if everything works in their ways, how do you plan to shoot them down with MLRS? Forgetting for a moment that, it's a fire and forget type, it gives a time frame of less than 10 minutes to detect the launch, draw the path, and fire MLRS at them after tracing their path, before it hits the target.

That should be one hell of a system.

 

[Blue Marlin]

No, MTCR does give permission to develop missiles with ranges higher than 300KM.
It is based on P-800 oniks mainly because of the seeker and the ramjet engine, both similar to the ones used in Oniks.

your grossly mistaken I suggest you look at why the mtcr is in place and what benefits a membership provides.
note note, not a make a 1000km+ missile with parts from foreign vendors.

Alright, if everything works in their ways, how do you plan to shoot them down with MLRS? Forgetting for a moment that, it's a fire and forget type, it gives a time frame of less than 10 minutes to detect the launch, draw the path, and fire MLRS at them after tracing their path, before it hits the target.

That should be one hell of a system.

shooting them down with a mrs is can not happen hence I ignored that notion.

 

[CriticalThought]

shooting them down with a mrs is can not happen hence I ignored that notion.

Can you please explain why?

 

[Chhatrapati]

your grossly mistaken I suggest you look at why the mtcr is in place and what benefits a membership provides.
note note, not a make a 1000km+ missile with parts from foreign vendors.

Well, then you read it wrong.

Care to explain why the joint development of Brahmos II is at 600Km range after India joined MTCR?
While before the membership it was restricted to 290Km.

shooting them down with a mrs is can not happen hence I ignored that notion.

That's the thread about anyway.

And I don't think neither India nor Pakistan can defend themselves from missiles launched.