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Military strikes against Assad's Syria | Updates & Discussions.

You should actually read your source in detail instead of just reading the headline.

You source said that the US knew that Iraq was going to use and eventually did know that Iraq use chemical weapons. To 'directly aided' as you charged would mean we would have a direct, or even 2nd degree away, from providing materials, transport, or even manpower to develop and deliver those chemical weapons.

If you knew such thing then why your ambassador in un come and claimed that Iran used those weapon against itself and for several years supported them by preventing un fram issuing a resolution against iraq and when the number of victim become to high that we had to send them to Germany for treatment (and practically bribe international media to come and see the victim ) you were the only country who abstained in un voting and claimed Iran also used these weapons .

Isn't it the sign that you supported saddam in this ?
 
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Could the cyprus base be used against targets in syria not on the coast(for example Damascus) , or would it be pushing it for range?
 
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The Military Industrial Complex, Western Warmongers, & Informed Public Against Intervention in Syria


Despite the mainstream media's intentional distortion of the truth of what is going on in Syria, the wider Western public is becoming more and more aware of what their governments do around the world. After the Iraq war, the case to go to war has become ever more challenging to sell, and the military industrial complex needs more wars to keep going.

The Military Industrial Complex, Western Warmongers, & Informed Public Against Intervention in Syria - YouTube
 
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You should actually read your source in detail instead of just reading the headline.

You source said that the US knew that Iraq was going to use and eventually did know that Iraq use chemical weapons. To 'directly aided' as you charged would mean we would have a direct, or even 2nd degree away, from providing materials, transport, or even manpower to develop and deliver those chemical weapons.

US gave Iraq the location of Iranian troops while being aware that Saddam is going to use chemical weapons , I call it aiding directly.
 
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Of course it does. US directly aided Iraq to use chemical weapons and do one of the most horrible crimes in history. "it was U.S. troops who captured and imprisoned him for the Iraqis to prosecute and and eventually execute." -- the fact that Iraq was in your list of "Terror States" before Iran-Iraq war and you supported it during the Iran-Iraq war and it again became the foe after the war and was imprisoned by US after that only proves the American hypocrisy.

Forget Saddam, look what you are doing know; here are a few revealed crimes by your allied rebels:

UN Official, Syrian Rebels Used Sarin Nerve Gas, Not Assad

BBC News - UN's Del Ponte says evidence Syria rebels 'used sarin'

Syrian rebels used Sarin nerve gas, not Assad's regime: U.N. official - Washington Times

Note the hypocrisy of US about chemical weapons when it comes to her allies and not giving a sh!t about that.

that is a good amount of proof that Assad did not use it why still all this talks simple
SAA is winning and the terrorist lost
 
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Hypocrispy at its best, I'm against the intervention. I believe it will lead more casualities if US bombs Syria and possible covering it up as "media blackout" to prevent us from knowing the 'exact' death toll but this isn't the 20th century or 2003 anymore. We have the internet, social networks and video sites exposing the reality by anyone who saw the scene rather than watching to mainstream media who spits disgusting propaganda.

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I'm a pro FSA but foreign intervention is too risky. US does not only target enemies but everyone. Their previous involvement in wars is the best example.
 
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The US used chemical weapons in Iraq - and then lied about it

Did US troops use chemical weapons in Falluja? The answer is yes. The proof is not to be found in the documentary broadcast on Italian TV last week, which has generated gigabytes of hype on the internet. It's a turkey, whose evidence that white phosphorus was fired at Iraqi troops is flimsy and circumstantial. But the bloggers debating it found the smoking gun.
The first account they unearthed in a magazine published by the US army. In the March 2005 edition of Field Artillery, officers from the 2nd Infantry's fire support element boast about their role in the attack on Falluja in November last year: "White Phosphorous. WP proved to be an effective and versatile munition. We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE [high explosive]. We fired 'shake and bake' missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out."

The second, in California's North County Times, was by a reporter embedded with the marines in the April 2004 siege of Falluja. "'Gun up!' Millikin yelled ... grabbing a white phosphorus round from a nearby ammo can and holding it over the tube. 'Fire!' Bogert yelled, as Millikin dropped it. The boom kicked dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call 'shake'n'bake' into... buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week."

White phosphorus is not listed in the schedules of the Chemical Weapons Convention. It can be legally used as a flare to illuminate the battlefield, or to produce smoke to hide troop movements from the enemy. Like other unlisted substances, it may be deployed for "Military purposes... not dependent on the use of the toxic properties of chemicals as a method of warfare". But it becomes a chemical weapon as soon as it is used directly against people. A chemical weapon can be "any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm".

White phosphorus is fat-soluble and burns spontaneously on contact with the air. According to globalsecurity.org: "The burns usually are multiple, deep, and variable in size. The solid in the eye produces severe injury. The particles continue to burn unless deprived of atmospheric oxygen... If service members are hit by pieces of white phosphorus, it could burn right down to the bone." As it oxidises, it produces smoke composed of phosphorus pentoxide. According to the standard US industrial safety sheet, the smoke "releases heat on contact with moisture and will burn mucous surfaces... Contact... can cause severe eye burns and permanent damage."

Until last week, the US state department maintained that US forces used white phosphorus shells "very sparingly in Fallujah, for illumination purposes". They were fired "to illuminate enemy positions at night, not at enemy fighters". Confronted with the new evidence, on Thursday it changed its position. "We have learned that some of the information we were provided ... is incorrect. White phosphorous shells, which produce smoke, were used in Fallujah not for illumination but for screening purposes, ie obscuring troop movements and, according to... Field Artillery magazine, 'as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes...' The article states that US forces used white phosphorus rounds to flush out enemy fighters so that they could then be killed with high explosive rounds." The US government, in other words, appears to admit that white phosphorus was used in Falluja as a chemical weapon.

The invaders have been forced into a similar climbdown over the use of napalm in Iraq. In December 2004, the Labour MP Alice Mahon asked the British armed forces minister Adam Ingram "whether napalm or a similar substance has been used by the coalition in Iraq (a) during and (b) since the war". "No napalm," the minister replied, "has been used by coalition forces in Iraq either during the war-fighting phase or since."

This seemed odd to those who had been paying attention. There were widespread reports that in March 2003 US marines had dropped incendiary bombs around the bridges over the Tigris and the Saddam Canal on the way to Baghdad. The commander of Marine Air Group 11 admitted that "We napalmed both those approaches". Embedded journalists reported that napalm was dropped at Safwan Hill on the border with Kuwait. In August 2003 the Pentagon confirmed that the marines had dropped "mark 77 firebombs". Though the substance these contained was not napalm, its function, the Pentagon's information sheet said, was "remarkably similar". While napalm is made from petrol and polystyrene, the gel in the mark 77 is made from kerosene and polystyrene. I doubt it makes much difference to the people it lands on.

So in January this year, the MP Harry Cohen refined Mahon's question. He asked "whether mark 77 firebombs have been used by coalition forces". The US, the minister replied, has "confirmed to us that they have not used mark 77 firebombs, which are essentially napalm canisters, in Iraq at any time". The US government had lied to him. Mr Ingram had to retract his statements in a private letter to the MPs in June.

We were told that the war with Iraq was necessary for two reasons. Saddam Hussein possessed biological and chemical weapons and might one day use them against another nation. And the Iraqi people needed to be liberated from his oppressive regime, which had, among its other crimes, used chemical weapons to kill them. Tony Blair, Colin Powell, William Shawcross, David Aaronovitch, Nick Cohen, Ann Clwyd and many others referred, in making their case, to Saddam's gassing of the Kurds in Halabja in 1988. They accused those who opposed the war of caring nothing for the welfare of the Iraqis.

Given that they care so much, why has none of these hawks spoken out against the use of unconventional weapons by coalition forces? Ann Clwyd, the Labour MP who turned from peace campaigner to chief apologist for an illegal war, is, as far as I can discover, the only one of these armchair warriors to engage with the issue. In May this year, she wrote to the Guardian to assure us that reports that a "modern form of napalm" has been used by US forces "are completely without foundation. Coalition forces have not used napalm - either during operations in Falluja, or at any other time". How did she know? The foreign office minister told her. Before the invasion, Clwyd travelled through Iraq to investigate Saddam's crimes against his people. She told the Commons that what she found moved her to tears. After the invasion, she took the minister's word at face value, when a 30-second search on the internet could have told her it was bunkum. It makes you wonder whether she really gave a damn about the people for whom she claimed to be campaigning.

Saddam, facing a possible death sentence, is accused of mass murder, torture, false imprisonment and the use of chemical weapons. He is certainly guilty on all counts. So, it now seems, are those who overthrew him.


George Monbiot: US used chemical weapons in Iraq, then lied | Politics | The Guardian
 
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US forces used 'chemical weapon' in Iraq



The Pentagon has admitted US forces used white phosphorus as "an incendiary weapon" during the assault last year on Fallujah.


A Pentagon spokesman's comments last night appeared to contradict the US ambassador to London who said that American forces did not use white phosphorus as a weapon.

Pentagon spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Barry Venable said that white phosphorus - which is normally used to lay smokescreens - was not covered by international conventions on chemical weapons.

But Professor Paul Rodgers of the University of Bradford department of peace studies said it probably would fall into the category of chemical weapons if it was used directly against people.

A recent documentary by the Italian state broadcaster, RAI, claimed that Iraqi civilians, including women and children, had died of burns caused by white phosphorus during the assault on Fallujah.

The report has been strenuously denied by the US, however Col Venable disclosed that it had been used to dislodge enemy fighters from entrenched positions in the city.

"White phosphorus is a conventional munition. It is not a chemical weapon. They are not outlawed or illegal," he said on the BBC Radio 4 PM programme.

"We use them primarily as obscurants, for smokescreens or target marking in some cases. However it is an incendiary weapon and may be used against enemy combatants."

Asked directly if it was used as an offensive weapon during the siege of Fallujah, he replied: "Yes, it was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants".

He added: "When you have enemy forces that are in covered positions that your high explosive artillery rounds are not having an impact on and you wish to get them out of those positions, one technique is to fire a white phosphorus round into the position because the combined effects of the fire and smoke - and in some case the terror brought about the explosion on the ground - will drive them out of the holes so that you can kill them with high explosives," he said.

However in a letter yesterday to The Independent, the US ambassador to London, Robert Tuttle, denied that white phosphorus was deployed as a weapon.

"US forces participating in Operation Iraqi Freedom continue to use appropriate lawful conventional weapons against legitimate targets," he said.

"US forces do not use napalm or white phosphorus as weapons."

Col Venable said that a similar denial on the US State Department's website had been entered more than a year ago and was based on "poor information ".

Prof Rodgers said white phosphorus would be considered as a chemical weapon under international conventions if it was "deliberately aimed at people to have a chemical effect".

He told PM: "It is not counted under the chemical weapons convention in its normal use but, although it is a matter of legal niceties, it probably does fall into the category of chemical weapons if it is used for this kind of purpose directly against people."

Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman Sir Menzies Campbell said later: "A vital part of the effort in Iraq is to win the battle for hearts and minds.

"The use of this weapon may technically have been legal, but its effects are such that it will hand a propaganda victory to the insurgency.

"The denial of use followed by the admission will simply convince the doubters that there was something to hide."

The Shadow Foreign Secretary Liam Fox said on today's BBC Radio 4 Today programme: "Clearly there needs to be more openness coming from the Pentagon but the claims at the moment are just claims.

"And I think that, although white phosphorus is a brutal weapon, we need to remember that we were talking about some pretty brutal insurgents. These were the people who were hacking off hostages' heads with knives."

US forces used 'chemical weapon' in Iraq - Americas - World - The Independent




:laughcry::woot::laughcry::woot::laughcry::woot::laughcry::woot::laughcry::woot:
 
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France backs action on Syria as US seeks coalition, UK rejects move

DAMASCUS: French President Francois Hollande gave a boost Friday to US hopes of forging an international coalition for possible strikes against Syria after British lawmakers rejected any involvement in military action.

The White House had signalled on Thursday that US President Barack Obama, guided by the "best interests" of the United States, was ready to go it alone on Syria after deadly chemical weapons attacks last week.

But Russia, the Syrian regime's most powerful ally, warned any military strikes would "deal a serious blow to the entire system of world order".

UN arms experts began a final day of inspections of the sites of the suspected gas attacks before they leave the war-battered country on Saturday and report their findings to UN chief Ban Ki-moon.

Faced with an impasse at the UN Security Council and the British parliament's shock rejection of any punitive action against the Syrian regime, the United States has been forced to look elsewhere for international partners.

While Germany and Canada ruled out joining any military strikes, Hollande -- whose country was a strident opponent of the war on Iraq -- said the British vote would not affect his government's stance.

"France wants firm and proportionate action against the Damascus regime," Hollande said in an interview with Le Monde newspaper, hinting an attack was possible by Wednesday.

US Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel said the White House respected the British vote and that it was still seeking an "international coalition that will act together" against Syria's regime.

"We are continuing to consult with the British as with all of our allies. That consultation includes ways forward together on a response to this chemical weapons attack in Syria," he said in the Philippines.

The British rejection also came after the failure of an 11th-hour effort by British diplomats to win UN backing for action against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's regime at a meeting of the permanent members of the Security Council.

"It is clear to me that the British parliament, reflecting the views of the British people, does not want to see British military action. I get that and the government will act accordingly," Cameron said.

His government was defeated by just 13 votes in its bid for a "strong humanitarian response" to Syria's alleged use of chemical weapons against its own people in the August 21 attacks.

Key Damascus allies Russia and Iran have warned against any Western intervention, saying it risked sparking a wider conflict in the already volatile Middle East.

But the military buildup was continuing in the region, while in Damascus the mood was heavy with fear and security forces were making preparations for possible air bombardments.

US warships armed with scores of cruise missiles are converging on the eastern Mediterranean, and US military officials have said they are ready to launch a powerful barrage against regime targets.

US National Security Council spokeswoman Caitlin Hayden said Obama's decision-making "will be guided by what is in the best interests of the United States.

"He believes that there are core interests at stake for the United States and that countries who violate international norms regarding chemical weapons need to be held accountable."

Envoys from the permanent Security Council members -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States -- met Thursday for the second time since Britain proposed a draft resolution to permit "all necessary measures" to protect Syrian civilians, but no breakthrough was reported.

Earlier in the week, reports had suggested a Western strike was imminent, but questions have been raised about the quality of the intelligence linking Assad to the gas attack.

Some members of Congress voiced support for limited, surgical strikes, while urging transparency from the administration and continued close consultations.

"It is clear that the American people are weary of war. However, Assad gassing his own people is an issue of our national security, regional stability and global security. We must be clear that the United States rejects the use of chemical weapons by Assad or any other regime," said Nancy Pelosi, the minority leader in the House.

Assad's ally and main arms supplier Russia has blocked all attempts to toughen sanctions against Damascus or authorise outside force to punish or unseat the regime.

And Deputy Prime Minister Gennady Gatilov said Friday his government opposes any resolution "indicating the probability of the use of force" or "that could be used for military action against Syria".

Syria is in the 29th month of a vicious civil war in which more than 100,000 people have died and about three million more have become refugees or displaced, according to UN figures.

As the stand-off continued, the team of UN inspectors were in the final day of their investigations into the gas attacks that activists say killed more than 350 people, including women and children.

A UN spokesman said Thursday that the team had collected "considerable" evidence and will brief the UN secretary general soon after they leave Syria on Saturday.

Ban has appealed for the inspectors to be allowed to complete their work before the major powers decide any follow-up action.

Assad, whose regime strongly denies using chemical weapons and instead blames "terrorist" rebels, has remained defiant in the face of the threats.

"Syria will defend itself in the face of any aggression," he said on Thursday, vowing "victory" for his people.

Israel deployed its Iron Dome missile defence system in Tel Aviv on Friday, reports said, amid fears Assad or his allies from the Hezbollah Shiite militia in Lebanon will retaliate against the Jewish state.

France backs action on Syria as US seeks coalition, UK rejects move - The Times of India
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Well is there any consensus even among the parties in favor of military strikes. Any military action IMHO is going to come at tremendous cost civilan life, why can't we exhaust diplomatic options first including some real tough sanctions.
 
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US gave Iraq the location of Iranian troops while being aware that Saddam is going to use chemical weapons , I call it aiding directly.
You could call it that if the alternative is that we would withdraw such information unless Saddam agreed under persuasion/pressure to use chemical weapons.

That mean we would do the same if the weapon was an array of artillery, a sortie of bombers, or a raid of commandos.
 
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Putin says would be 'utter nonsense' for Assad to use chemical arms
VLADIVOSTOK, Russia | Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:25am EDT

(Reuters) - Russia's President Vladimir Putin said on Saturday it would be "utter nonsense" for the Syrian government to use chemical weapons when it was winning its war with rebels, and urged U.S. President Barack Obama not to attack Syrian forces.

The United States said on Friday it was planning a limited military response to punish Syria's President Bashar al-Assad for a "brutal and flagrant" chemical weapons attack it says killed more than 1,400 people in Damascus 10 days ago.


Putin told journalists that if Obama had evidence Assad's forces had the chemical weapons and launched the attack, Washington should present it to the U.N. weapons inspectors and the Security Council.

"I am convinced that it (the chemical attack) is nothing more than a provocation by those who want to drag other countries into the Syrian conflict, and who want to win the support of powerful members of the international arena, especially the United States," Putin said.

The Russian president said Obama, as a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, should remember the impact any U.S. attack would have on Syrian civilians.

World powers should discuss the Syrian crisis at a meeting of the leaders of the Group of 20 developed and developing nations in St. Petersburg next week, he added. "This (G20 summit) is a good platform to discuss the problem. Why not use it?" Putin said.

(Reporting by Denis Dyomkin; Writing by Lidia Kelly; Editing by Andrew Heavens)

Putin says would be 'utter nonsense' for Assad to use chemical arms | Reuters
 
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