mehru
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,645
- Reaction score
- 0
From what i have read so far that the troops opened fire because of the curfew.
Military convoy ambushed in North Waziristan 23 Apr 2010
- Thread starter Mujahid
- Start date
From what i have read so far that the troops opened fire because of the curfew.
nakodo
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 0
If the militants can run for it SW to NW, then probably some1 is not doing a good job with sealing their escape routes under rah-e-rast. If what you say is true and the idea is not to take on all baddies at once, then one of the very important requirements of this step by step approach viz completely secure one area, destroy anti national elements before pivoting to the next is not being implemented. What instead seems to be happening is what PA would like to avoid, by allowing the 2 groups to link up.
Secondly, US and Afghans have an incentive to shoot militants coming across the border, why would they offer them protection? Is this another Hamid Gul type counter-theory?
nakodo
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 0
ISLAMABAD: They were never routed, no matter what Pakistan claimed. Instead, the Taliban and al-Qaida fighters have merely relocated. They're still near the Afghan border.
Months after Pakistani troops chased them from South Waziristan, these militants have established a new base farther north under the protection of an insurgent leader who has cut past deals with the Pakistani army, according to residents, militants and reports from Associated Press correspondents who visited recently.
The fighters — including Arabs, Chechens and Uzbeks — roam through markets, frequent restaurants and watch jihadi movies or surf the web at Internet cafes, their weapons propped up against the table. Pakistani troops wave them through checkpoints even though they're armed with assault rifles and rocket launchers.
These are the new VIPs in Pakistan's most dangerous region, North Waziristan.
The influx of these militants in North Waziristan in recent months adds to pressure on the army to launch an offensive there, and raises questions over its policy of making agreements with Gul Bahadur and other insurgent commanders who threaten US forces in Afghanistan but do not attack targets in Pakistan.
Bahadur agreed not to help his fellow militants during last year's offensive in South Waziristan as part of an understanding reached with the army. In exchange, the army would not attack his territory to the north. Now it appears that this pact has backfired on the army, enabling militants whom Pakistan considers a threat to its security to regroup on Bahadur's lands.
The military says it is not moving into North Waziristan because it does not have enough troops to do so effectively. Critics say the force is holding back because it does not want to sever alliances with militant factions fighting just across the border in Afghanistan, believing they will one day serve Pakistan's interests there.
That makes North Waziristan an enticing destination for extremists, even with US missiles regularly pounding the region. All but two of the 27 missile strikes fired from unmanned drones since January have hit targets in the north, according to a count by the AP.
Newly arrived Pakistani Taliban, Arab and Uzbek militants from South Waziristan are now commonly seen in the north's major towns, Mir Ali and Miramshah, which are under the control of Bahadur, according to residents there and two AP reporters in the region.
The Pakistani Taliban has set up a command and control center in Mir Ali bazaar, where it communicates by radio with other groups in the tribal belt, witnesses say.
All those interviewed declined to give their names, citing fear of retribution by either the Taliban or Pakistani security forces. The AP reporters also asked to remain anonymous for the same reason.
"Under tribal customs and traditions, we are bound to host brothers from South Waziristan. We are like brothers and we support each other," said a close aide to Bahadur. "We have no concern that our attitude toward the Pakistani Taliban in our area will invite an army offensive. Why should it? Neither we nor the Pakistani Taliban men have caused any problems for the army in North Waziristan."
Before launching the offensive in South Waziristan, the Pakistani army acknowledged striking the deal with Bahadur.
On Wednesday, army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas denied the force had any ongoing deal with Bahadur not to attack his territory, saying the local administration may have an arrangement with tribal leaders in the area to ensure peace there.
But security analysts and residents disputed this, saying there was clearly a truce of some sort in the region.
Abbas insisted the army had not ceded the north to militants, saying the army had about 25,000 troops stationed there that carry out small-scale, targeted operations against insurgents.
Any such operations are rarely reported.
Despite the remarks by Bahadur's aide, there are signs the new arrivals may be straining relations with their hosts.
The Pakistani Taliban circulated a leaflet two months ago calling on their fighters to avoid any "criminal activity" and interference in the internal affairs of the region.
The army began its operations in South Waziristan in October against the Pakistani Taliban, an umbrella grouping of militants that has claimed responsibility for many of the hundreds of suicide bombs to hit the country over the last two years.
It retook the area in about two months, but most of the insurgents fled rather than fight and none of the top commanders were captured or killed.
In Washington, a senior military official confirmed that fighters scattered from South Waziristan, including some to the north and others into Afghanistan. They included foreign fighters, he said on condition of anonymity because it involves intelligence.
The army has since launched air and ground operations in the Orakzai tribal area, where it says many of those who fled South Waziristan have ended up. But several analysts said they believed North Waziristan was home to most of the insurgents, including their leaders.
"The Taliban are receiving undeclared protection and shelter there in North Waziristan. The issue is now for how long this can be sustained," said Imtiaz Gul, director of the Center for Research and Security Studies in Islamabad. "If you look at the growing convergence between the Pakistan and the US military, it will be difficult for Gul Bahadur to keep these people and not be disturbed."
Bahadur, whose forces do not carry out attacks within Pakistan, is regarded as "good Taliban" by Pakistani security agencies. But he and other allied insurgents leaders in the north, among them Jalaluddin Haqqani, regularly dispatch men to fight US and Nato troops in Afghanistan.
US officials have praised Pakistan's actions against the Taliban in the northwest over the last 18 months, a change from two years ago when their refrain was a near constant "Pakistan must do more." They have also said they understood Pakistan's reasons for not going into North Waziristan immediately.
But an uptick in bombings in recent weeks in Pakistani cities after three month of relative calm will add to calls for action in the north.
"The strikes over the last couple of days mean the Taliban have reorganized," said Mahmood Shah, a former security chief for Pakistan's tribal regions. "I understand the complexities of launching an operation in North Waziristan, but I think it will become a compulsion."
Some residents said they saw signs that a military offensive might come — from soldiers repairing checkpoints on previously abandoned roads, to Pakistani Taliban fighters using the north as a base.
"After the military operation in South Waziristan we have seen Arabs, Uzbeks and Pakistani Taliban in Miran Shah market," said a school teacher in that town near the Afghan border. "I am happy with the agreement between Gul Bahadur and Pakistan, but I fear another military operation in our area when I see these people having free movement."
The owner of a pharmacy in the same town had similar fears.
"I am not hopeful about the future of the Gul Bahadur agreement when I see what's happening on the ground," he said.
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | On the run, militants find new haven
Q. Why did PA only chase militants? Not destroy them? If they are not eliminated they will obviously regroup. Are these the underpinnings of a delaying tactic to seem engaged but then to also start countdown to the day when US is out of Afg and Taliban can move in into Afg in Pakistan's favour?
Months after Pakistani troops chased them from South Waziristan, these militants have established a new base farther north under the protection of an insurgent leader who has cut past deals with the Pakistani army, according to residents, militants and reports from Associated Press correspondents who visited recently.
The fighters — including Arabs, Chechens and Uzbeks — roam through markets, frequent restaurants and watch jihadi movies or surf the web at Internet cafes, their weapons propped up against the table. Pakistani troops wave them through checkpoints even though they're armed with assault rifles and rocket launchers.
These are the new VIPs in Pakistan's most dangerous region, North Waziristan.
The influx of these militants in North Waziristan in recent months adds to pressure on the army to launch an offensive there, and raises questions over its policy of making agreements with Gul Bahadur and other insurgent commanders who threaten US forces in Afghanistan but do not attack targets in Pakistan.
Bahadur agreed not to help his fellow militants during last year's offensive in South Waziristan as part of an understanding reached with the army. In exchange, the army would not attack his territory to the north. Now it appears that this pact has backfired on the army, enabling militants whom Pakistan considers a threat to its security to regroup on Bahadur's lands.
The military says it is not moving into North Waziristan because it does not have enough troops to do so effectively. Critics say the force is holding back because it does not want to sever alliances with militant factions fighting just across the border in Afghanistan, believing they will one day serve Pakistan's interests there.
That makes North Waziristan an enticing destination for extremists, even with US missiles regularly pounding the region. All but two of the 27 missile strikes fired from unmanned drones since January have hit targets in the north, according to a count by the AP.
Newly arrived Pakistani Taliban, Arab and Uzbek militants from South Waziristan are now commonly seen in the north's major towns, Mir Ali and Miramshah, which are under the control of Bahadur, according to residents there and two AP reporters in the region.
The Pakistani Taliban has set up a command and control center in Mir Ali bazaar, where it communicates by radio with other groups in the tribal belt, witnesses say.
All those interviewed declined to give their names, citing fear of retribution by either the Taliban or Pakistani security forces. The AP reporters also asked to remain anonymous for the same reason.
"Under tribal customs and traditions, we are bound to host brothers from South Waziristan. We are like brothers and we support each other," said a close aide to Bahadur. "We have no concern that our attitude toward the Pakistani Taliban in our area will invite an army offensive. Why should it? Neither we nor the Pakistani Taliban men have caused any problems for the army in North Waziristan."
Before launching the offensive in South Waziristan, the Pakistani army acknowledged striking the deal with Bahadur.
On Wednesday, army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas denied the force had any ongoing deal with Bahadur not to attack his territory, saying the local administration may have an arrangement with tribal leaders in the area to ensure peace there.
But security analysts and residents disputed this, saying there was clearly a truce of some sort in the region.
Abbas insisted the army had not ceded the north to militants, saying the army had about 25,000 troops stationed there that carry out small-scale, targeted operations against insurgents.
Any such operations are rarely reported.
Despite the remarks by Bahadur's aide, there are signs the new arrivals may be straining relations with their hosts.
The Pakistani Taliban circulated a leaflet two months ago calling on their fighters to avoid any "criminal activity" and interference in the internal affairs of the region.
The army began its operations in South Waziristan in October against the Pakistani Taliban, an umbrella grouping of militants that has claimed responsibility for many of the hundreds of suicide bombs to hit the country over the last two years.
It retook the area in about two months, but most of the insurgents fled rather than fight and none of the top commanders were captured or killed.
In Washington, a senior military official confirmed that fighters scattered from South Waziristan, including some to the north and others into Afghanistan. They included foreign fighters, he said on condition of anonymity because it involves intelligence.
The army has since launched air and ground operations in the Orakzai tribal area, where it says many of those who fled South Waziristan have ended up. But several analysts said they believed North Waziristan was home to most of the insurgents, including their leaders.
"The Taliban are receiving undeclared protection and shelter there in North Waziristan. The issue is now for how long this can be sustained," said Imtiaz Gul, director of the Center for Research and Security Studies in Islamabad. "If you look at the growing convergence between the Pakistan and the US military, it will be difficult for Gul Bahadur to keep these people and not be disturbed."
Bahadur, whose forces do not carry out attacks within Pakistan, is regarded as "good Taliban" by Pakistani security agencies. But he and other allied insurgents leaders in the north, among them Jalaluddin Haqqani, regularly dispatch men to fight US and Nato troops in Afghanistan.
US officials have praised Pakistan's actions against the Taliban in the northwest over the last 18 months, a change from two years ago when their refrain was a near constant "Pakistan must do more." They have also said they understood Pakistan's reasons for not going into North Waziristan immediately.
But an uptick in bombings in recent weeks in Pakistani cities after three month of relative calm will add to calls for action in the north.
"The strikes over the last couple of days mean the Taliban have reorganized," said Mahmood Shah, a former security chief for Pakistan's tribal regions. "I understand the complexities of launching an operation in North Waziristan, but I think it will become a compulsion."
Some residents said they saw signs that a military offensive might come — from soldiers repairing checkpoints on previously abandoned roads, to Pakistani Taliban fighters using the north as a base.
"After the military operation in South Waziristan we have seen Arabs, Uzbeks and Pakistani Taliban in Miran Shah market," said a school teacher in that town near the Afghan border. "I am happy with the agreement between Gul Bahadur and Pakistan, but I fear another military operation in our area when I see these people having free movement."
The owner of a pharmacy in the same town had similar fears.
"I am not hopeful about the future of the Gul Bahadur agreement when I see what's happening on the ground," he said.
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | On the run, militants find new haven
Q. Why did PA only chase militants? Not destroy them? If they are not eliminated they will obviously regroup. Are these the underpinnings of a delaying tactic to seem engaged but then to also start countdown to the day when US is out of Afg and Taliban can move in into Afg in Pakistan's favour?
Last edited:
TaimiKhan
SENIOR MODERATOR
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2009
- Messages
- 8,956
- Reaction score
- 10
- Country
- Location
Before talking about something, atleast get a feel of it that what the thing is on ground and in reality.
With so much manpower, high tech surveillance equipment, thousands of KMs of fencing, have you guys been 100% effectively controlled the infiltration by Kashmiri freedom fighters ?? Hope this gives you the answer that how hard it is to seal everything as there are hundreds of ways out in those mountains. If you guys with hundred thousands of soldiers manning the border or the US with all its forces and high tech surveillance equipment can't control the infiltration, then don't talk about Pakistan, as we have not the resources as you or the US has.
Take the recent example of Bajaur Agency, where troops reached the end of the border after years and what happens is the US forces at that exact time empty the Korengal Valley of something like that, thus the militants who were made to run are now having a good time time on that side of the border. Do go to the battle of bajaur sticky and read. Similarly, at the exact time when Operation Rah e Nijat started, US Nato emptied the posts opposite to SW agency. They call this strategic moves, but their timings are very suspicious and tell the true intent. And this has happened many times.
We have 800+ border posts on the border, while the opposite side has less then 130 manned, many having Afghan forces, which we all know how they operate.
Hamid Gul, whatever speaks, he knows what to speak, when and what. He is 100 times more knowledgeable and mature then you or me or any of the members on this forum. He had a distinguished career and has headed the ISI and would still be having friends and people with inside knowledge who would share their knowledge with him and what they know. So don't drag him into this as he is much higher level of intellectual then any of us.
So go and read the relevant threads and see what the US and Nato forces have been upto in Afghanistan.
nakodo
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 0
Sir, I don't know if it was the fence or the military or the sensors but there are no Kashmiri freedom fighters. Just as there are no Balochi freedom fighters.
nakodo
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 0
It has certainly checked PA's proxy war.
I think it is a case of too many conspiracy theories swirling around. And Pakistani's are falsely believing that what they are doing unto the world, the world is doing unto them. What motive could POTUS have in keeping the war alive when he wants to bring US soldiers home victorious and hope to get re-elected. Karzai is in any case too weak relatively to take on Pakistan militarily.
Seriously, the man may have had a distinguished career and all that, but trafikking all that weed got to him. How can you trust the sanity of a man that calls 9/11 an inside job?
Last edited by a moderator:
If he calls 9/11 an inside job then there's nothing wrong with that. He knows more than you and me. Plus, calling 9/11 an inside job by no means makes anyone insane.
Hamid Gul, however, is being used by you as a mere diversion. You should know the reason why US ran from that area as it's been made public.
Hamid Gul, however, is being used by you as a mere diversion. You should know the reason why US ran from that area as it's been made public.
nakodo
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 0
^^^^^^^
Inside job? What delirium are we suffering from? What could US hope to achieve by destroying its own symbol of economic dominance???
Not to mention killing a whole bunch of successful people. Oh add to that the fact that US/west has had to look at Islam and Muslims in an unfavorable light. Hmm..Could it be a promotional for a book by a certain Huntington?
Inside job? What delirium are we suffering from? What could US hope to achieve by destroying its own symbol of economic dominance???
Not to mention killing a whole bunch of successful people. Oh add to that the fact that US/west has had to look at Islam and Muslims in an unfavorable light. Hmm..Could it be a promotional for a book by a certain Huntington?
Ok, perhaps you're thick headed and are suffering from a very well known indian symptom of being too simplistic. Let me remind you of what US has planned in the past which has been made public now.
In the 1960s, CIA planned to carry out domestic false-flag terror attacks, blame them on Cuba, and then attack Cuba. This is unclassified, public information. So considering that, this is not as hard to believe as you make it to be.
When you know that an attack was false flag, the motive becomes secondary question.
Read the following post by me (and the post before this one) if you've time to better understand what I am saying: http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...1290-zaid-hamid-commentary-44.html#post744228
Finally, read my post again which I edited. You're using typical indian diversion tactics here. Don't make it into a 9/11 conspiracy thread.
In the 1960s, CIA planned to carry out domestic false-flag terror attacks, blame them on Cuba, and then attack Cuba. This is unclassified, public information. So considering that, this is not as hard to believe as you make it to be.
When you know that an attack was false flag, the motive becomes secondary question.
Read the following post by me (and the post before this one) if you've time to better understand what I am saying: http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...1290-zaid-hamid-commentary-44.html#post744228
Finally, read my post again which I edited. You're using typical indian diversion tactics here. Don't make it into a 9/11 conspiracy thread.
Last edited:
nakodo
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 0
You are not qualified to disburse that opinion. I can also say that Pakistanis are too thin headed to believe everything that floats around without passing it through even basic critical checks. That is what makes a whole population gullible & is more dangerous than being in your opinion thick headed.
Why do you think they will give Pakistan the same treatment they reserve for Cuba, different continent, not communist, not one leader strong enough to stand up to the Americans. Hell you guys where supposed to be a frontline ally.
In light of your steadfast beliefs I think I will avoid any mumbo jumbo coming from you.
My mumbo jumbo? 
Now that's signs of desperations considering you had your simplistic arguments thrown out. Oh well, go for it, it's not like your mumbo jumbo is qualitatively better.
When did I associate 9/11 with Pakistan btw? I very well explained the possible motives in the following posts along with the idea of a motive itself: http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...1290-zaid-hamid-commentary-44.html#post744228
Now that's signs of desperations considering you had your simplistic arguments thrown out. Oh well, go for it, it's not like your mumbo jumbo is qualitatively better.When did I associate 9/11 with Pakistan btw? I very well explained the possible motives in the following posts along with the idea of a motive itself: http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...1290-zaid-hamid-commentary-44.html#post744228
Last edited:
TaimiKhan
SENIOR MODERATOR
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2009
- Messages
- 8,956
- Reaction score
- 10
- Country
- Location
Yeah I know, for you guys there is no Kashmiri Freedom fighters, but for us there are. And don't bring in Baloch, as its not disputed nor has wars happened on it nor the world shows concerns for a nuke war on Balochistan, rather it is Kashmir.
So no need to derail the thread as you can't prove anything.
PlanetWarrior
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2009
- Messages
- 6,096
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
My mumbo jumbo?
When did I associate 9/11 with Pakistan btw? I very well explained the possible motives in the following posts along with the idea of a motive itself: http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...1290-zaid-hamid-commentary-44.html#post744228
You don't have to associate Pakistan with 911. The rest of the world does. Even your comrades in the CIA does. The fact of the matter is that conspiracy theories are making your nation stuck in the mud. Everything you presuppose is always a conspiracy based on gossip or no factual basis. Wake up and smell the roses. It is time that you joined the rest of the world in respect of time zone or else those Talibans ambushing your soldiers will end up ruling your country and taking you from your current 7th century mentality back to the stone ages. Your quoting Hamid proves my point
Similar threads
