Military convoy ambushed in North Waziristan 23 Apr 2010

[TaimiKhan]

Ok now enough, this is not the thread for it. Make another thread. No more discussion about off topic things.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The if is irrelevant anyhow. When there's so many questions marks on the official story, the government cannot be reliably trusted with the proof especially when it is the one giving out that official story. They claim to have several cameras' recordings of a plane crashing into pentagon but they have released 3 frames from 1 camera.

No need to argue with them, even if you bring the culprit who admits his crime or a video of the crime with the culprits clearly seen, they aren't gonna accept it.

So move on and talk as per the topic or cease.

 

[nakodo]

Normalcy restored. Lets get back to http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...th-waziristan-23-apr-2010-a-2.html#post815433

 

[macnurv]

I do not differentiate between a Good Talib or a Bad Talib, the only good Taliban is a dead Taliban. It would be very naive of us to think that once the US have withdrawn its forces from Afghanistan our problems of insurgency will finish. The Afghan Taliban have learned a bitter lesson and they would not allow this to happen to them again. After the withdrawal, Afghan taliban will emerge as a more potent force then ever. They will by all means support the insurgency and let us not forget all those who have fought on their side and are Pakistani.
So far PA have achieved great success in its operations against these terrorists but have failed miserably to eliminate the leadership of these terror groups. Be it Swat or Bajur or SW the 1st tier leader ship is still intact. As long as the head of snake is on its body it will strike back. No matter where these terrorists reside Pakistan must pursue them and decapitate this for once and all. NW needs to be pacified but right now PA does not want to engage itself into this battle.

 

[nakodo]

^^^^^^
Ok now enough, this is not the thread for it. Make another thread. No more discussion about off topic things.

Thus speaketh Sir Taimi.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I do not differentiate between a Good Talib or a Bad Talib, the only good Taliban is a dead Taliban. It would be very naive of us to think that once the US have withdrawn its forces from Afghanistan our problems of insurgency will finish..

fully agree with you.
these people show no tolerence towards minorities, be it secterian or religious and if that wasnt enough for them now even an ordinary Muslim is fair game for them

they started as religious secterian outfits and now evolved into a beast with no regard for human life.
their presence is a nusance to humanity and insult to Islam.

Taliban go to hell you have defiled and defamed Islam

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Difficult Question: How did an ambush in NW turn into an Indo-Pak 'battle'?

Easy Answer: An Indo-Pak battle does not need reasons.

But first things, first.

RIP to the soldiers. And, even as a Hindu, if I may use an eloquent and beautiful phrase, one which I really discovered on this forum: Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un.

OK now to the thread. Pakistani posters, my questions, if I may, are:

What are your predictions for the coming months for NW? Is this incident a blip, or does it mean the PA is inevitably going to move in? Would that be wise?

Harder questions - In the medium to long term, do you at all see a time when the writ of the Pakistani state runs freely in this region? Is it ever going to be an option? Is it, indeed, necessary in your opinion, that GOP adopts a medium to long term policy to that effect?

 

[Janbaz]

Difficult Question: How did an ambush in NW turn into an Indo-Pak 'battle'?

Easy Answer: An Indo-Pak battle does not need reasons.

But first things, first.

RIP to the soldiers. And, even as a Hindu, if I may use an eloquent and beautiful phrase, one which I really discovered on this forum: Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un.

OK now to the thread. Pakistani posters, my questions, if I may, are:

What are your predictions for the coming months for NW? Is this incident a blip, or does it mean the PA is inevitably going to move in? Would that be wise?

Harder questions - In the medium to long term, do you at all see a time when the writ of the Pakistani state runs freely in this region? Is it ever going to be an option? Is it, indeed, necessary in your opinion, that GOP adopts a medium to long term policy to that effect?

IMHO N Waziristan is gonna be left alone until next year until they find out how and if the militants stage comebacks in S Waziritan and Swat.

 

[Javed3]

PA is being bogged down in a mindless counter insurgency without a clear end game. Seemingly pacified areas like Swat and Bajaur are simmering lava fields under a thin crust. There is no way to reintegrate them in the national mainstream through continued Military operations. Massive casualties on both sides have created a division in our national fabric that cannot be patched up by phony victories.

 

[TaimiKhan]

PA is being bogged down in a mindless counter insurgency without a clear end game. Seemingly pacified areas like Swat and Bajaur are simmering lava fields under a thin crust. There is no way to reintegrate them in the national mainstream through continued Military operations. Massive casualties on both sides have created a division in our national fabric that cannot be patched up by phony victories.

wow is that what it looks like by sitting and watching from UK ??

Becoz from here inside Pakistan, things are different compared to what picture you are trying to portray.

Quit your this pro-taliban propaganda and come here to Pakistan and join them, then we will see. No use by sitting there in UK and doing your propaganda as on the ground things are different.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

PA is being bogged down in a mindless counter insurgency without a clear end game. Seemingly pacified areas like Swat and Bajaur are simmering lava fields under a thin crust. There is no way to reintegrate them in the national mainstream through continued Military operations. Massive casualties on both sides have created a division in our national fabric that cannot be patched up by phony victories.

So long as there is territory like NW where the militants are able to find sanctuary, from where they can train, plot and execute terrorism, the surrounding Tribal areas, and even the rest of Pakistan, will not remain secure.

In fact, even when all of FATA is under control, the potential for terrorism will remain as the larger TTP style groups go out of fashion, and small Al Qaeda like cells start to function, that will carry out random acts of terrorism.

And while the reintegration cannot be done through military operations alone, military operations are an essential part of reintegration. Without military operations the TTP would still be in control of Swat and SW, butchering people and hanging their bodies in town squares, preventing girls from getting an education, and burning down every school they saw.

One cannot have reintegration when people with such mindless hatred and violence control the regions we are looking to integrate. Military operations served to dislodge the largest obstacle to reintegration - the Taliban, AlQaeda, LeJ terrorists - from Swat and SW. Now it is the job of government (and the military through its engineers, at the direction of the GoP) to reconstruct and reintegrate, while the military remains to patrol and secure the areas till such time as local law enforcement can hold them.

Hollow rhetoric such as 'military operations can't reintegrate' is just that, hollow, meaningless rhetoric better suited to a political campaign by parties such as the Jamaat-e-Islami or Imran KHan's Tehrik-e-Insaaf.

 

[nakodo]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What may be pertinent to ask here is whether native Swat & FATA people are OK with Taliban rule, given whatever value system they were brought up in.

 

[macnurv]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What may be pertinent to ask here is whether native Swat & FATA people are OK with Taliban rule, given whatever value system they were brought up in.

Unfortunately the problem is not that simple. Religion and Race are two things that can instantly convert modern humans into Neanderthals. In particular subcontinent had a long history of conflicts based on these two factors in the modern times.
People of Pakistan have been fooled time and time again by those who uses the name of religion for nefarious purpose. Some say it is because people of Pakistan are simple minded, I say NO, it is because we dont know any thing about Islam and we are a bunch of hypocrites. There is very little we muslims know about Islamic jurisprudence and have surrendered our faith to Maulvis and Qaris.
Add factors to this already dangerous mixture, that are lack of education and extreme poverty. FATA have never been treated similar to other parts of Pakistan in the 62 year history, and there were different laws governing the land. Of course the people of FATA have been fiercely independent and they wanted to keep the old tribal system intact but this does not mean that the place should have been avoided as it was. This only added to the problem.

When US invaded Afghanistan, a backlash was expected from the people of Pakistan in particular FATA. Given the history of Afghan Jihad against the soviets FATA was bound to become a spring board for any resistance against the invaders. Since Pakistani elite's both Military and Political lack foresight and have always been preoccupied their own interests rather then that of the nation or country got on "War Against Terrorism" bandwagon in a second with out giving it a second thought. Also when Musharaf started to clamp down on Jihadi groups which were supported by the state before 9-11 and were acting as surrogates for us things got really messy.
Around the same time Musharaf being a dictator and having no roots in people needed to make him self indispensable to the Americans so he can stay longer in power sent Pakistan Army with out any plan into the tribal areas. The back lash was severe and it only helped the insurgents cause. It was Musharaf who first talked about Taliban taking over Pakistans Nuclear Arsenal rather then some western media outlet and he presented himself as the only one standing in their way. Every attempt was half hearted as there was no consensus among the nation or its soldiers which felt they have been forced to fight in Americas war against their own brethren. As a result of such actions militants got more and more in control of FATA. Militants started to kill all those Maliks and Khans who took army's side, thus effectively eliminating the power structure. This vacuum was filled by the talibans them selves.
Already people were poor and low literacy level it became a sort of fashion in the FATA to be a Talib, that is why we see so many groups of them in different agencies. All of them used Islam in one way or another, initially they did got the masses with them. Since as already stated Pakistanis are emotionally retarded when it comes to Islam. But when the Talibans started to impose their strict version of made up Islam ( of course Wahabism is BS) and brand out harshest treatment to all those who oppose them it became clear to the people that they do not want this. But they were too powerless to do any thing about it and Musharaf still being in power nothing was to be expected.
These are just few of the facets of the problem, as stated earlier this issue is not as simple as support by the populace or not. So far the political government have failed miserably to back the Military achievements which is clearly indicated by lack of a national strategy against terrorism. This is a time when the nation should be united against this threat instead the government is busy in creating further divides among the people.