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Mig-27 crashes in West Bengal

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It's funny that his artical also states that much of the Mig-21 crashes were due to pilot error, poor quality spares ect. Just like i have been telling him, but he insists that the Mig-21 is Russian junk--or in other words he hasn't acknowledged factors other then the aircraft itself, perhaps he will be more careful with his sources next time. :lol:

I could not stop laughing when he imply that India is Russia air industry's sugar daddy.
 
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Here is an article about Soviet aircraft in US.
Black Ops: American pilots flying Russian aircraft during the Cold War

The pilots of these squadrons were faced with flying aircraft they did not have knowledge of, lacked manuals and spare parts. Aircraft components were often reverse engineered by ground crews and manufactured on the spot. Here is an example of how things were done to keep the airplanes in the air: one day, the Constant Peg maintenance shop noticed it was running out of MiG-21 brakes. With no place to buy any off the shelf, they sent out some worn brakes for duplication. Six weeks and untold dollars later they got back a brand new set of worn-out brakes. The new parts had been made to look exactly like the old. In these conditions it is not surprising that accidents did occur, some of them fatal. In April 1984 Lt. Gen. Robert M. Bond made two orientation flights in a Russian-built MiG-23 jet fighter. While making a high-speed run during his second flight, Bond lost control and crashed in Area 25 of the Nevada Test Site. He was killed while ejecting.
 
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I could not stop laughing when he imply that India is Russia air industry's sugar daddy.

Yea i guess he missed the part when Vietnam, Malayasia, Uganda, Indonesia, Venezuela, Algeria, Myanmar, Puru, Sudan, Thailand, US to Pakistan transfer, Afghanistan, Brazil, Senegal, and many more countries just recently received or placed order for Russian aircraft. This doesn't even count the orders Russia has placed.

There is also more contries that have purchased Russian aircraft with in the last 5-10 years.
 
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Yea i guess he missed the part when Vietnam, Malayasia, Uganda, Indonesia, Venezuela, Algeria, Myanmar, Puru, Sudan, Thailand, US to Pakistan transfer, Afghanistan, Brazil, Senegal, and many more countries just recently received or placed order for Russian aircraft. This doesn't even count the orders Russia has placed.

There is also more contries that have purchased Russian aircraft with in the last 5-10 years.

Question though, all of those recent orders you mentioned above are all for Sukhoi or Mikoyan? From what I have read, India actually is one of the few clients of Mikoyan left with.
 
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Those are for all companies, not just Mikoyan & Sukhoi.

The clients for Mikoyan are Myanmar which has ordered Mig-29M/M2(which won the competition against J-10 & JF-17), India & Syria(Mig-31 & Mig-29M/M2).
 
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Question though, all of those recent orders you mentioned above are all for Sukhoi or Mikoyan? From what I have read, India actually is one of the few clients of Mikoyan left with.

Both, and countries such as Mynmar and Sudan have received or placed orders for the Mig-29, Russia has also signed a Mig-29 deal with another country but i do not remember which one.

Some of the aircraft on the list are helicopters too.
 
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We should not blame Mikoyan-and-Gurevich Design Bureau as it has a glorious past..I am sure, In future, they will comeout of all troubles..and I hope.. they will set a Benchmark again.
 
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Sudan received its jets in 2008 I think. India(additional Mig-29K), Myanmar, Syria & ofcourse the Russian Navy, are the newest 2010 customers.
 
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Hmm... nice post, only if you would have posted it in MMRCA thread, Here, its like the longest troll of the pdf!! Tell me, what it has to do with MIG-27 crash in West Bengal??
:confused:

Actually, it seems to include just about every single aircraft in the world and not just the MRCA contenders. So it will still be deviating from the topic if the entire article is posted in the MRCA thread. Anyway, in this thread, there is no denying that it is 100% troll!! :mod:
 
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More recent Strategy page article:
RIP, MiG-21

April 27, 2010: India has finally made it official, its troublesome fleet of MiG-21 fighters are being phased out. The 121 that were recently upgraded, will all be retired in seven years. The other 85 will be out of service in two years. India operates the largest fleet of MiG-21s, although China has even more of their MiG-21 clones, the J-7 in service. China still exports J-7s, but is rapidly retiring the ones remaining in Chinese service. Over 10,000 Mig-21s and J-7s have been produced in the last sixty years, making this the most widely manufactured jet fighter of the last century (during World War II, there were several propeller driven fighters that were produced in greater numbers.) The MiG-21 looked fearsome, but it was a bust in combat, getting shot down more often than not.
During 1966-84, India built 658 MiG-21s. Over half those aircraft were lost to accidents. This got worse as the aircraft got older. India lost 250 MiG-21s to accidents between 1991 and 2003. When consulted, Russia pointed out that India had insisted on manufacturing many of the spare parts needed to keep MiG-21s operational, and many of these parts were not manufactured to Russian specifications. While Russia does not have a reputation for making the highest quality equipment, their standards are often higher than India's. It's no secret that much of the military equipment made in India is pretty shabby by world standards.

Most of the 110 pilots lost in these MiG-21 accidents were new pilots, which pointed out another problem. India has long put off buying jet trainers. New pilots go straight from propeller driven trainer aircraft, to high performance jets like the MiG-21. This is made worse by the fact that the MiG-21 has always been a tricky aircraft to fly. That, in addition to it being an aircraft dependent on one, low quality, engine, makes it more understandable why so many MiGs were lost. And a lot were lost.

The MiG-21 problems were overcome by 2006, a year in which no MiG-21s were lost. India improved maintenance, spare parts quality and pilot training to the point that the aircraft was no longer considered the most dangerous fighter to fly. But they were more expensive to keep in safe flying condition. So now all are headed for retirement.

That introduces another problem, the MiG-21 replacement. Currently, India is determined that this will be the locally developed jet fighter, the LCA (Light Combat Aircraft, now called Tejas). There have been a lot of development problems, and mass production (at least 20 aircraft a year) won't begin until 2012. Or at least that's the plan. For over two decades, India has been trying to design, develop and manufacture its own "lightweight fighter" (the LCA/Tejas). The project has been a major disaster.

The U.S. F-16 is probably the premier "lightweight fighter" in service, and entered wide service about the time India began thinking about creating their own. Both the F-16 (at least the earlier models), and the LCA, weigh about twelve tons. But the F-16 is a high performance aircraft, with a proven combat record, while the LCA is sort of an improved Mirage/MiG-21 type aircraft. Not too shabby, and it is cheap (about half the cost of an F-16). Also, for all this time, money and grief, India has made its aviation industry a bit more capable and mature.

When work began in the mid-1980s, it was believed that the aircraft would be ready for flight testing by 1990. A long list of technical delays resulted in that first flight taking place in 2001. Corners had to be cut to make this happen, for the LCA was originally designed to use the Indian built Kaveri engine. For a jet fighter, the engine is the most complex part of the aircraft, and the Kaveri has had its share of setbacks. Fortunately, there was an American engine, the GE 404, that fit the LCA, and could be used as a stop-gap. The Kaveri engine has been ordered for the first production aircraft. The American engine has been used in the meantime, for the prototypes.

For all this, India only plans to buy 200-300 LCAs, mainly to replace its aging MiG-21s. Export prospects are dim, given all the competition out there (especially for cheap, second-hand F-16s). The delays have led the air force to look around for a hundred or so new aircraft (or even used F-16s) to fill the gap between elderly MiG-21s falling apart, and the arrival of the new LCAs. However, two decades down the road, the replacement for the LCA will probably be a more competitive, and timely, aircraft. The main purpose of the LCA program was not to produce a suitable replacement for the MiG-21, but to help build an Indian warplane industry. In this, it succeeded.

The LCA was not the first attempt to produce an Indian jet fighter. The HF-24 was an earlier attempt at developing a modern fighter. Designed by Kurt Tank (who also designed the German FW-190 and Ta-152 during World War II), the HF-24 was a failure because India could not develop a powerful enough engine. Thus the 147 HF-24s built, served from the 1960s, to the 1980s, as a ground attack aircraft.

With out India the Russian Air Craft Industry is Kaput:

You know, one would think you would stop trolling atleast when you are reported to the moderators. You seem to be a born troll! :eek::hang2: Anyway, congrats for successfully derailing this thread (not that you are new to derailing threads!)
 
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МиГ-29;1021485 said:
^Yeah. I think he has serious psychological issues. Or he is just plain stupid. Either one of these 2.

I can't believe even some people from India are asking for the planes to be scrapped. People are too lazy to even Google for information it seems.

First off, the "Free" & stupid Media in our country needs to be put under regulation. If they skew the facts to create sensational news(to shore-up their ratings)they should be imprisoned.

Right censorship, that just what India needs, then you will never even hear of a plane crash and I am the one that is suppose to be stupid and I guarntee you every time a mig crashs its going to be pilot error.
 
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Lets think about this for a moment, The MiG-21 problems were overcome by 2006, a year in which no MiG-21s were lost. India improved maintenance, spare parts quality and pilot training to the point that the aircraft was no longer considered the most dangerous fighter to fly. But they were more expensive to keep in safe flying condition. So now all are headed for retirement.

Something is just not makeing sense here. India grounds the planes for a year improves maintance and spare parts and the planes dont crash for a year and the reason they crashed befor was pilots error. Then India gets rid of the planes because they are too expensive to maintain properly, but the reason for the crashs were pliots error. Of course the pliots woudll receive training, you would just not expect them to take a years vacation. I expect the article I quoted was just using the figures India and Russia furnished. I like to think for my self.

Lot of people in India and Russia have a vested interest in keeping the Migs flying any cost in pliots lives.
 
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Have you seen India on a Map? Are you aware how big the country is? Are you aware of the sanctioned squadron strength? Are you aware how many Mig-21s there are and how many squadrons they occupy in the IAF? Can you imagine what would happen if all the Mig21s are retired? First know the answers to all these questions before you flout your 'brilliant' conspiracy theories.

Also, the media can't go around spreading misinformation. If the skew the facts, they have to face the music. Especially when it comes to national security. When 'brilliant' people like you take in what the media says, you can probably see what the results are.
 
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I agree with Captain America here.The MiG-21,however brilliant design it maybe,is an old fighter.The MiG-21s used to be the frontline fighters of IAF when it was cash starved.It led to lack of proper maintenance.The training of the young pilots was also a problem.The biggest challenge that IAF is facing these days is,many fighters in its inventory are too old with abysmal maintenance records.The numerous upgrades make the affair too costly.It is better to systematically ground them and acquire newer generation hardware.The LCA,the MMRCA deal,PAK-FA are just moves towards the modernization.
 
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I suggest you go through the thread and read a bit. Also go though what the "American" is implying. I doubt he is from the U.S.

And FYI, the current Mig-21s are newer than Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 with lot of airframe life. And last, please update yourself with facts. The Mig-21 upgrade costed barely 5million, when compared to a new jet which costs around 50 million. I don't know where you got this "The numerous upgrades make the affair too costly.".
 
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