MIG 21 Crashed Pilot dead

[Indischer]

What I meant is that the Tejas should not be inducted until it is completely cleared for full operational service

That's a given. I expect the new Govt to sustain(or even accelerate further) the healthy pace at which things on many aviation projects have proceeded for a year now.

 

[Tango22]

You are mixing many things with lots of inaccuracies.
First of all MKIs are developed from basic Su-30s and not Su-27s directly. Secondly leave MKIs alone and consider only Su-27s(not even basic Su-30s), they are anything but obsolate even now let alone 15 years back when no one had BVR missiles in this sub-continent except India so I don't think IAF did any mistake by Inducting basic su-30s first for training purpose without BVRs and later replaced them with MKIs in early 2000s as there was hardly any threat in that area.
Regarding LCA, IAF has been disappointed because there performance in many key areas did not even fulfil basic requirements which are planned to be enhanced further. One eg is LCA's trackking capability now is hardly 50KM because of issues in nose cone though which are to be rectified in FOC models (so first LCA sqd will have max trackking range of only 50KM).
So Once again HAL and DRDO are to be blamed more than security forces for not being able to deliver basic requirements even after decades of development.

Precisely my point...I agree that SU 30 MKI is great and LCA is not near its designed/intended performance (it was obv not designed to match the Sukhoi's anyways)....one point you forgot to mention is that MKI's integrated a lot of Israeli and french components in itself, to make it a potent fighter that it is today.... IAF played a crucial role in development of MKI's.....it should do the same for LCA....
I am not agianst the final product....MKI turned out to be a great success.....I am against the partiality in process....IAF should be equally supportive to Indian manufacturers......you can criticize DRDO and HAL for all you want....but its hard to create new flying machines ...and IAF's experience can only help....DRDO and HAL are not perfect I agree....to doubt their capabilities is one thin....to doubt their intentions is another

 

[Tshering22]

A front line fighter aircraft is constantly being pushed to its limits. The pilots need to trust it each and every second, forcing the IAF to accept a plane which they dont trust is simply stupid.

Trust comes with use. When MiG-21s were inducted, they were as alien to IAF as Tejas is now.

Did it mean that IAF didn't fly them?

Tejas has a record of 2200+ hours of flights done, maneuvering, weapons fire testing, ground testing and what not and not ONCE has any IAF pilot died in a crash. It has never crashed and we still suspect it while we use MIG-21s that has killed more IAF pilots than in any war, to be our workhorse?

Really man?

The former test pilot of HAL was infact found 'hanging' days after he had tested Tejas and IJT-36 'out of personal reasons'.

You might want to think why is that.

 

[Zarvan]

What I meant is that the Tejas should not be inducted until it is completely cleared for full operational service

And in which century that will happen ?

 

[pursuit of happiness]

And in which century that will happen ?

-- very soon ..

 

[Tango22]

People who believe that Mig 21 and Su30 MKI were perfect when they were recruited (for their respective times ofcourse ,70s for Mig21 and 2000's for MKI), please wiki 'hindsight bias'...they were great because we worked towards it and made them great

 

[kaykay]

Precisely my point...I agree that SU 30 MKI is great and LCA is not near its designed/intended performance (it was obv not designed to match the Sukhoi's anyways)....one point you forgot to mention is that MKI's integrated a lot of Israeli and french components in itself, to make it a potent fighter that it is today.... IAF played a crucial role in development of MKI's.....it should do the same for LCA....
I am not agianst the final product....MKI turned out to be a great success.....I am against the partiality in process....IAF should be equally supportive to Indian manufacturers......you can criticize DRDO and HAL for all you want....but its hard to create new flying machines ...and IAF's experience can only help....DRDO and HAL are not perfect I agree....to doubt their capabilities is one thin....to doubt their intentions is another

Yaar you can upgrade Tejas like IAF did with MKI with all avonics you want in its caliber but atleast It must fulfil basic requirements first. It has issues in many areas starting from nose cone to landing gear.

 

[NKVD]

Precisely my point...I agree that SU 30 MKI is great and LCA is not near its designed/intended performance (it was obv not designed to match the Sukhoi's anyways)....one point you forgot to mention is that MKI's integrated a lot of Israeli and french components in itself, to make it a potent fighter that it is today.... IAF played a crucial role in development of MKI's.....it should do the same for LCA....

no the gap is actually very less BTW Lca and mki in-terms of Avionics TVC give Mki some Edge But its Rcs Very huge in comparison of Lca Here Lca have Advantage over Mki. My Comparison Purely Based on Facts But practically they are of different weight and Class.

 

[Tango22]

Yaar you can upgrade Tejas like IAF did with MKI with all avonics you want in its caliber but atleast It must fulfil basic requirements first. It has issues in many areas starting from nose cone to landing gear.

I am not pushing for it....I am just saying that we should take decision....
I wonder if the nose cone will get any bigger over time.,....I am not aware of any problems with the landing gear...the naval LCA needs to strengthen its landing gear not he IAF version...
More important requirements before FOC are the AOA, testing the real g limits, refueling probes....
If IAF dosnt believe in it...scrap it, dont waste time n money....we have learned enough to work on a new design

 

[NKVD]

Yaar you can upgrade Tejas like IAF did with MKI with all avonics you want in its caliber but atleast It must fulfil basic requirements first. It has issues in many areas starting from nose cone to landing gear.

@kaykay what do you think if Lca vs Mki in Bvr fight theoretically

 

[kaykay]

I am not pushing for it....I am just saying that we should take decision....
I wonder if the nose cone will get any bigger over time.,....I am not aware of any problems with the landing gear...the naval LCA needs to strengthen its landing gear not he IAF version...
More important requirements before FOC are the AOA, testing the real g limits, refueling probes....
If IAF dosnt believe in it...scrap it, dont waste time n money....we have learned enough to work on a new design

Tejas has drag issues because of Its landing gears. Also it need to do good in angle of attack. No one is saying about scrapping it but it must fulfil these very basic requirements else no point blaming security forces.

 

[UFO77]

India 40 years fell more than 1000 aircraft, most of which are India own disassembly. First you should improve yourrepair level, you have to buy things to understand, then to consider the development of their own aircraft. Otherwise,just like LCA, spent a lot of money, a lot of time, but notmuch help.

The Pakistan do better, they are more pragmatic,gradually accumulate experience, finally have the ability and the Chinese together with the development of JF-17.

 

[NKVD]

India 40 years fell more than 1000 aircraft, most of which are India own disassembly. First you should improve yourrepair level, you have to buy things to understand, then to consider the development of their own aircraft. Otherwise,just like LCA, spent a lot of money, a lot of time, but notmuch help.
The Pakistan do better, they are more pragmatic,gradually accumulate experience, finally have the ability and the Chinese together with the development of JF-17.

@Aeronaut @Manticore this guy trolling Jf-17 into discussion Please take care of him

 

[kaykay]

@kaykay what do you think if Lca vs Mki in Bvr fight theoretically

 

[Tango22]

India 40 years fell more than 1000 aircraft, most of which are India own disassembly. First you should improve yourrepair level, you have to buy things to understand, then to consider the development of their own aircraft. Otherwise,just like LCA, spent a lot of money, a lot of time, but notmuch help.

The Pakistan do better, they are more pragmatic,gradually accumulate experience, finally have the ability and the Chinese together with the development of JF-17.

On the other hand PAF also took a risk by inducting a half baked fighter...diligence and some luck has meant that JF17 is a respectable fighter today....

IAF and PAF have take an completely opposite approach here...but the underlying sentiment is similar...PAf had faith in China and IAF had faith in Russia