Miffed Russia may stop arms sale to India

[karan.1970]

This reminds me of the time when french refused to sell weapons and avionics to Pakistan for JF-17 and most of the Indians dubbed it as an "Indian diplomacy success "......... so what should we call this... Not saying that Pakistan has a role in this, but can certainly exploit the situation in its favour. If pakistans loss was Indias gain then Indias loss can be Pakistans gain......P.S those who dont understand the basic principles of International Relations and business, kindly dont bother quoting my post.

Dude. One key difference between the 2 situations.

In case of France refusal to sell avionics to Pakistan, Pak wanted to buy something but France refused to sell it to Pak. In India, Russia case, its the other way around. Russia is miffed because India is buying stuff elsewhere and not from Russia only. I dont see how 2 are comparable..

 

[bigzgvr4]

do you know one mysterious member PuPu from CD (³¬´ó¾üÊ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÍøÕ¾|×îÑÏËàµÄ¾üÊÂÍøÕ¾ - CJDBY.net), the very person who leaked J-20, J-31, J-15 and many more projects at least half decade before 'official appearance' of them respectively?

and it turned out he is actually one of the insiders, nd knew inside out of the whole process of China importing Su-27 since the very begining`

and he is also the official translator of the book 'NAAS, Sunset in the KnAAPO' a narrative book, a very detailed account of reasons, private talks, inside tradings and even dramatic spyings of the whole processes.

pupu says the PLAAF were unhappy about the plane especially the quality, radar and the avionics

yup when was the last time a Russian Radar locked on to some thing or much less destroyed it with missile

 

[Genesis]

So the Russians are whining about fair? That's just accepted now?

And yea, your stuff is second class, I thought this is known fact, not disputed. American toys are better is it not? The cold war and recent developments namely American navy, American airforce, American military budget suggest it is so.

Stop selling to India, that's a good one, maybe after this you can stop selling energy to China too. We have other options in case the Russians didn't know.

 

[Peregrine]

Well you drew your conclusions based on my high level reasoning. We Indians always say that international relationship are driven by interest and not by friendship, so we are not counting on friendship. I am just saying that while some things can be said emotionally but actions are driven based on interest.
1) India still gives Russia good business on defense and no one will just walk out because they did not like certain things.
Russia had to understand, we are paying hence we will choose what we get.
2) Pakistan does not have enough to counter what India offers Russia and hence cannot change our relationship.
Opposite is however still true, we can influence the deals you try to get from them.

This is hard truth as of now.

While what you have stated may hold its grounds for some time and that is exactly why I stated that Pakistan is not expecting any military deals any time soon. Russia has shown great Interest in taking things forward and this is of essence here. Who knows what the future holds......but the prospects of Pak-Russia relations are looking quite promising.................If things go the way they are going then who knows that may be a few years down the road....other than economic relations they might develop defence as well and to say India would always be influential in this regard is just wishful thinking.....especially in the light of the first post....Its obvious that Russians are not quite pleased with India.

 

[SpArK]

Dude. One key difference between the 2 situations.

In case of France refusal to sell avionics to Pakistan, Pak wanted to buy something but France refused to sell it to Pak. In India, Russia case, its the other way around. Russia is miffed because India is buying stuff elsewhere and not from Russia only. I dont see how 2 are comparable..

But the word "refusal' is common.

 

[Hulk]

Dude. One key difference between the 2 situations.

In case of France refusal to sell avionics to Pakistan, Pak wanted to buy something but France refused to sell it to Pak. In India, Russia case, its the other way around. Russia is miffed because India is buying stuff elsewhere and not from Russia only. I dont see how 2 are comparable..

Karan, he was trying to say India blocked that sale and maybe Pakistan is taking Russia away from India. I do not know why some people think that they are important enough to influence Russia against India. One has to be practical, not saying it is impossible, but where they are now. I think they are thinking 5th step before they completed the first step.

 

[rcrmj]

So the Russians are whining about fair? That's just accepted now?

And yea, your stuff is second class, I thought this is known fact, not disputed. American toys are better is it not? The cold war and recent developments namely American navy, American airforce, American military budget suggest it is so.

Stop selling to India, that's a good one, maybe after this you can stop selling energy to China too. We have other options in case the Russians didn't know.

i'd put europeans as second class, soon China, but not Russia as far as I can see

 

[HongWu]

India has been spying on Russia for the West! So evil. Russia and China now will crush them.

 

[baajey]

yup when was the last time a Russian Radar locked on to some thing or much less destroyed it with missile

remember "atlantique" incident ????? or you are too busy forgetting what is pricky for you.

Atlantique incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MiGs over Kargil: How the Fulcrum buzzed the Falcons | Russia & India Report

 

[Peregrine]

Karan, he was trying to say India blocked that sale and maybe Pakistan is taking Russia away from India. I do not know why some people think that they are important enough to influence Russia against India. One has to be practical, not saying it is impossible, but where they are now. I think they are thinking 5th step before they completed the first step.

A brazen misinterpretation on your part, to say the least. India drove France away from Pakistan deal..Yes...........By going to France did India drive Russia away......Yes(for this point convince the Russian ambassodor not me)........ Does Pakistan stand a chance here.....Yes.
No we dont think that we are influential enough to drive a wedge.......You have done it on your own.

 

[bigzgvr4]

remember "atlantique" incident ????? or you are too busy forgetting what is pricky for you.

Atlantique incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MiGs over Kargil: How the Fulcrum buzzed the Falcons | Russia & India Report

yup you win shooting an unarmed aircraft wow

and i did'nt read the second article because the heading suggested indian-english title obviously fake like how you win kargil war and the point 5353 aka tiger hill is still in akistan control

 

[peep]

A brazen misinterpretation on your part, to say the least. India drove France away from Pakistan deal..Yes...........By going to France did India drive Russia away......Yes(for this point convince the Russian ambassodor not me)........ Does Pakistan stand a chance here.....Yes.
No we dont think that we are influential enough to drive a wedge.......You have done it on your own.

By going to France india drove away russia ? LMAO ! Is that why they are sending the prototype of their Aviation Jewel called T50 to IAF in 2014 ? Start making sense first rather than just blabbering for the heck of it. That would come naturally if you have a modicum of coherency in your talks !

yup you win shooting an unarmed aircraft wow

and i did'nt read the second article because the heading suggested indian-english title obviously fake like how you win kargil war and the point 5353 aka tiger hill is still in akistan control

LMFAO ! First you guys say that they were not PA soldiers in kargil and then u guys went on to extent of rejecting the dead bodies of the killed ones so that vultures can eat on them... then u guys have the gall to come and take credit for the "indigenous mujahideens"

damn ! no wonder no country gives two hoots to what pakistanis say !

They even say pakistanis are habitual liars !

 

[Psyops]

Buying western weapons comes with strings attached. I hope India realises this. Infact I hope all countries realise this. Sure Russian weapons might not be as great as western weapons (but still very very good) but Russia don't attach strings to their weapons sales. Buying western weapons means you have to follow their foreign policies or they will cut off parts supplies if you don't do what they want. Happened to Iran and China. When relations are great, it's all well and good but as India rises it will have clashes with the west and the west will use India to favour western foreign policies or cut off parts supplies. This has always been a western tactic to make countries depend on their weapons so that they will have leverage over the country buying the weapons.

I'd rather buy weapons from a country with no strings attached than buying superior weapons from a country that attaches strings.

This is why I'm happy we are not allowed to buy western weapons because it will conflict with our independent foreign policy. If we bought American weapons we would be following every American foreign policy because we would be scared to anger the Americans since they might cut off parts supplies. The Americans do this economically by using their large consumer market as leverage and their financial system and dollar's use in trade to hurt its opponents. E.g. Iran.

 

[baajey]

yup you win shooting an unarmed aircraft wow

and i did'nt read the second article because the heading suggested indian-english title obviously fake like how you win kargil war and the point 5353 aka tiger hill is still in akistan control

hey u said "lock-on" remember??? are u 10 second Tom ????
regarding the other link, definitely I agree akistan controls everything

 

[Koovie]

This reminds me of the time when french refused to sell weapons and avionics to Pakistan for JF-17 and most of the Indians dubbed it as an "Indian diplomacy success "......... so what should we call this... Not saying that Pakistan has a role in this, but can certainly exploit the situation in its favour. If pakistans loss was Indias gain then Indias loss can be Pakistans gain......P.S those who dont understand the basic principles of International Relations and business, kindly dont bother quoting my post.

Nonsense theories, the FGFA deal alone is worth roughly 10 times more than your entire defence budget.

And a visit by the Russian AF chief does not mean much. Indian and Chinese officers regularly visit each other... but most of those shameless cheerleaders here think that China will soon conquer India and split it into 52957325729583525912 independent states.....

The problem is that Russians cannot stand competition in any kind (Maybe they are still used to the good old communist days?). They had the monopoly in the Indian defence market and are not losing some parts, but are still the dominant player and will remain so.