Miffed Russia may stop arms sale to India

[Koovie]

yup when was the last time a Russian Radar locked on to some thing or much less destroyed it with missile

When was the last time a western piece of equipment destroyed a Russian piece of equipment??? (Dont tell me anything about those encounters between highly upgraded western systems with highly trained crews against a bunch of Iraqi pilots flying downgraded export versions of Russian fighters without proper support (e.g. AWACS)

 

[mirage2K]

yup when was the last time a Russian Radar locked on to some thing or much less destroyed it with missile

10 Aug 1999

 

[Lankan Ranger]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...orking-us-sixth-generation-fighter-study.html

 

[ptltejas]

Cheap Russia now shows it cheap behavior. IN the politics no one is friend. at once China is start to War and at other Rus helped them by not to ready Air craft carrier in time. both are mutually cheating with us............ Is it so????

 

[IND151]

Russia will not stop selling arms to India regardless of what their diplomat says

 

[Archie]

Russia will only get tenders for which their is no better option available

For Instance The Order for 144+72 FGFA/PAKFA worth an estimated 30 Billion USD
Russia got this tender becoz their is no way US would give us the level of technology required as per the order

Same is the case with Frigates
We are hearing news about order for 3 more Talwar class Frigates being placed with Russia
The reason being that Indian navy is really happy with the 5 Talwar Class Frigates currently in service

Also their is news that India is looking to lease another Akula for 10 yrs , we need this sub to support our dwindling submarine force till the scorpenes and Arihant class Subs ENTER service in full number

 

[Anony]

Russia has questioned New Delhi’s fairness and transparency in awarding multi-billion dollar military contracts, and warned that it may have to reconsider doing business with India.

“We know what gimmicks are used to manipulate deals,” Russian ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin told HT in an exclusive interview, adding that his country may not bid for Indian military tenders in the future. “Sometimes, terms of tenders are crafted specifically to get the required results.”

The statement comes in the wake of Russia losing ground in the Indian arms market in the past few years, with international rivals winning tenders to supply modern fighter jets, mid-air refuellers, heavy-lift helicopters and attack choppers to the Indian military.

Russia’s current defence portfolio in India is worth $20 billion ( Rs. 1,08,000 crore).

But such outcomes have weakened the standing of India’s oldest and largest arms supplier.

Israel, the second largest defence supplier to India, has bagged business worth more than $10 billion ( Rs. 54,000 cr) in the past 10-12 years. The US, currently at number three, could overtake Israel if India chooses to place some follow-on orders for platforms already contracted.

Instead of tenders, Russia now wants to sell military equipment to India directly through government-to-government deals, Kadakin said.

India has ordered equipment worth $8 billion ( Rs. 43,200 crore) from the US in the past five years through Washington’s foreign military sales programme, a government-to-government method for selling US-built platforms.

“If we emerge number two, it doesn’t mean our platform is any worse. But it sends out that impression and causes damage to our reputation,” Kadakin said. He added that Russia had stood by India when strictest sanctions were imposed on the country after it conducted nuclear tests.

Kadakin acknowledged that India, being “an emerging superpower”, had the right to build defence ties with other countries, but was quick to point out that unlike “some newly-acquired partners”, Russia had never hesitated to transfer the most sensitive defence technologies to India.

“Name a country that will lease you a nuclear submarine. Will the Americans, the British or the French lease you such a platform?” Kadakin asked, referring to the Akula-II nuclear-powered attack submarine leased to India by Russia last year. “This is the unique character of our privileged strategic partnership. Your people have to realise this.

Link - Miffed Russia may stop arms sale to India - Hindustan Times

The article only shows how much India mean to Russia. One major deal going to some other nation and Russian diplomat's lost temper and open ups diplomatic crying. India imports close to 30% of the total weapon exported by Russia and these figure are likely to increase sighting FGFA, MTA and other joint ventures deal going to take place in future.

Though never will, but if defence trade stops between India & Russia, India will have alternative to replace Russia but Russia don't has any alternative to replace India.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Russia will have to accept the reality that gone are the days where India takes anything from Russia with no questions asked, now they will have to compete with other countries who make same or better weapons..Russia is not the only player now.

 

[Koovie]

Russia will have to accept the reality that gone are the days where India takes anything from Russia with no questions asked, now they will have to compete with other countries who make same or better weapons..Russia is not the only player now.

Thats true.

Russia has been the monopolist on the Indian defence market for years, but is now facing competition from other countries.

But even though NONE of the western countries can offer India as much as Russia and will never replace Russia as our main supplier, the Russians cannot stand competition.

It seems that they still cannot adopt to free market situations even after more than 20 years after the end of communism.....

 

[selvan33]

Thats true.

Russia has been the monopolist on the Indian defence market for years, but is now facing competition from other countries.

But even though NONE of the western countries can offer India as much as Russia and will never replace Russia as our main supplier, the Russians cannot stand competition.

It seems that they still cannot adopt to free market situations even after more than 20 years after the end of communism.....

yes i accept. Russian drowsy apathy will continue in indian defence market. but don't forget one thing dude, when you tested your nuclear weapon russia only stood along with you. even france get backed its previusly sent appreciation letter. But your new importer US is the second nation who imposed sanction on us. and UK,german all are imposed sanctions against us. and you know who is the first nation imposed sanction against us.it's japan our new friend. In all those hard times even without your call,russia stood beside you. here am not mentioning about rafale. and also dont forget that always you have to be ready to face sanctions by your new friend US,UK,GERMAN,JAPAN.etc., they all are time tested unreliable nations. you can say me whatever you want like changing current global scenario etc., but these are hard truths that whole world knows dude. And am sure someday we will realise it through experience same as like pakistan.

“Name a country that will lease you a nuclear submarine. Will the Americans, the British or the French lease you such a platform?” Kadakin asked, referring to the Akula-II nuclear-powered attack submarine leased to India by Russia last year. “This is the unique character of our privileged strategic partnership. Your people have to realise this.
And this will show you the real difference between russia and others. Even france is also not ready to share there nuclear subs with india.
And one last question dude. who is ready to share their there 5th gen aircraft technology to you. Will america do. will UK give its astute class to india. no. even if you give billions of dollars to them also means they won't. but russia does. and they will do. this is what called true strategic relation and not a national interest.you have understand one thing that there is a thread line that differs strategic relation from national interest. Yes i accept we need best. but for best tech we cannot loss russia.
A FRIEND IN NEED IS A FRIEND IN DEED dude.

 

[hkmarine55]

This reminds me of the time when french refused to sell weapons and avionics to Pakistan for JF-17 and most of the Indians dubbed it as an "Indian diplomacy success "......... so what should we call this... Not saying that Pakistan has a role in this, but can certainly exploit the situation in its favour. If pakistans loss was Indias gain then Indias loss can be Pakistans gain......P.S those who dont understand the basic principles of International Relations and business, kindly dont bother quoting my post.

U may think what ever you want but Its Chinese diplomate in this case.As we all know India's leadership is as week a ****. China and Russia realised it that India is not as they were.Today Usa is the comon enemy for both Rus and Chin. Russia sold Su35 and Best Submarine on card better than it offered to India.And pakistan will benefit from this Russia will sell weapons may be not yet but in future if India fail totake stands.India cannot keep mum any more Its now global power on its own.India should work with russia on Submarines Which they offred to build Future submarine with Nuclear Engine too but Indian Defence Morons dint agree. Rafale won due to Kick Backs and ToT in mind but Mig 35 as prob with Radar and Engine.India need to engage with Russia diffrently As we cant buy wat ever they Give us. But as i said Political Nonse going on India. System Failed .And not to worry Pakistan too in **** and China has its own Pain in the *** with lots of enemy than Friends Time to privatise Weapon Development

As usual 'denial' seems to be your best defence..... Its pointless to argue...I had explicitly mentioned "people ignorant to the principles of International Relations, dont bother quoting my post" and yet you did...... You believe, just because you were friends with them once....so things will stay the same as always....International Relations are guided by interests and not the money.......and if you think so then I have no intentions of setting you straight......Enjoy your La-La land....while Pakistani and Russian realtions warm up.
Terminal X: Russian Air Force Chief visits Pakistan Air Force Headquarters
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Not saying that they will start selling us the hardware rightaway.....but they have identified the scope of our mutual interests.

It will be Russia's Night Mare if it align with Pakistan as in few years pakistan will kill Itself.No body has control over pakistan. ISI ? PA ? Govt? Taliban ? Dude stop dreaming Wet always.

 

[hkmarine55]

Let India buy expensive western toys and face sanction in time of war。

Or India can try to have its own comprehensive defence industry,not a shoddy integrator or assembler。

India already has norms in place atleast 30% to be invested in India .Almost all deal are MOTHER FATHER BROTHER of defence deal. So will be. ToT is the answer for ur Doubts!!!

Mean while Govt PSU like ADA,DRDO Ordinance factry are under imence preasure for not delivering.So things are turning nowadays.Lots of money pumped in to Upgrade these PSU

 

[hkmarine55]

India has been spying on Russia for the West! So evil. Russia and China now will crush them.

Hehe i thing u play lots of games... Is it so easy a u talking like ****? lol In ur language : COME CRUSH IF CHINA CAN

 

[Abingdonboy]

These Russians have got serious sharing issues. Is $55 BN+ in defence deals over the next 10-12 years not enough for them?


Seriously "tenders are manipulated to ensure a certain outcome"!! NO that was what happened BEFORE India started opening up their defence market. The Russians are merely crying over the fact that the monopoly they once enjoyed in the Indian defence market has been eroded and that now they can't sell a old junk to India- it has to be the best.


The Russians, it seems, are afraid to enter into these open and fair tenders as they know there is the distinct possiblity they will lose. The Life-cycle cost (LCC) system India has adopted doesn't favor their low unit cost USP.


They forgets eek to be under the impression that Indians have a short memory and don't remember the SH!T they have pulled over the years like not keeping up spare supplies or jacking up prices horrendously post contract signing or outrageous delays.

look at the Viky deal, they had a prime oppurtunity to impress India and show what Russia can do but now the deal is synonymous for delays and cost increases and just exemplifies all that is wrong with Indian defence deals with Russa.


The Russians have had the oppurtunity to up their game and get as competitive as the West to secure these deals but instead they are moaning and whining because the system now no longer favours them. It really is incredibly pathetic and stinks of self-entitlement.



I think the Russians are so used to cronyism that any system that goes against it is considered unfair!




All talk by is big-mouth. Whilst Russia's proportion of the indian defence market has been cut the value of the business in absolute terms has never been more and is increasing year on year.



What are they going to re-look at? They are already tied to India for their latest and most cutting edge future fighter as well as their future medium lift transport a/c.





STUPID TITLE! The Russian implied nothing about stoping arms sales to India. They aren't idiots they won't throw away the amount I have mentioned above. This is just one guy throwing his toys out the pram and the Indian media making a mountain out of a mole hill-AS USUSAL.

 

[DV RULES]

I would like to clear that here is talk about putting finger on the tail and slightly pressed but no where it smells as thread title.
Pakistan gradually moving for respectable relations with RF and making trust worthy environment so we are not in race to spend 20 billions $ for pig Iron.